Anonymous

I dont mind getting things wrong a few times to learn, so although i would normally give a similar comment (if you dont know enough about it that you need to ask then you shouldnt do it) im not sure it applies in this case as i have a pretty good knowledge of turbos and engines, not just two turbos at once and im capable of learning as i go along.


However, the second bit about it not working is far more relevant.
If thats the case (as i suspect it must be as otherwise like i said, why arent we all doing it?) then i will stick to bottled torque when im off boost instead.

Are you prepared to elaborate on why it doesnt work though, as im sure many of us on here would love to learn from you if thats the case?

Its not like it will give anything away to your competitors like it might if you described why something does work after all

Karl

Hi Chip,

Whilst I do love to chat to folk about technical stuff, I find typing on the internet far too time comsuming to explain properly.

Without sounding a twat please just believe me it does'nt work. Call in and see me some time and I will have a chat with you about it.

BlueSmoke

Reason not to do it? Well I don't think that car in the pic will be taking a regular bonnet anytime soon

Seriously wish I had the cash/space/knowledge to build something cool tho

I'd love to do the V8 with the charger out the bonnet mad max style

Not sure which car it would suit though. Maybe something more exotic like a 90's Mustang

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

how about a 1973 Ford Falcon XB GT Coupe?

Stavros

Only issue I can think of with this kind of setup is the switchover point between the 2 turbos.

My bro had one, matt black too, mentally loud.

Sold to a guy in Switzerland IIRC.

BlueSmoke

Can't see one of those coming up anythime soon

Anonymous

Thoroughly greatful for that offer mate and will definately take you up on it sometime.

And i do understand that hardworking indviduals such as yourself dont have the amount of free time for all this net bollocks that the lazier ones on here such as myself manage

In the mean time, i will just take your word as gospel on this one, and go back to just the single turbo, and I will worry about the details of why later on.
Ive read enough of what you have posted in the past to realise that you DO know what you are on about, and that its unlikely you will be wrong on it!

CheeRS

GARETH T

i can see one problem straight off,,,,how do you join the two compressor outlets

sorry havent read the thread

Stavros

Dont need to in this setup. Its not compound charging.

GARETH T

i mean how are the two compressor outlets piped too the inlet manifold

Karl

Chip,

On a serious note, if you have lots of spare time (Which you must with 12,000 posts in one year!!!!) then have a go yourself and learn first hand why it does'nt work.

It will become painfully obvious when you try to create any boost whats going wrong!!! (Even if you introduce a gated Y piece for both turbos you will shortly afterwards encounter the next boost problem!!!)

Do it anyway, first hand experience is a valuable lesson!

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

they "T" together at the start of the inlet manifold

Stavros

think what gareths getting at is a good point...

how does the car create boost? a lot of the flow from the bigger/stronger turbo will come back out the inlet of the smaller/weaker turbo.

unless you have some kind of valve blocking off 1 turbo at a time, and again that gives a massive problem at the transition point, which is why they dont use a supercharger bypass when on boost on twin charged engines.

complicated waste of time IMO

Karl

I have'nt even mentioned anything technical about this setup and cannot beleieve how stupid most are being about the two compressors linked together!! Only gareth has picked up on this basic issue!!

GARETH T

but when the first turbo is making any sort of flow,, wont it be traveling backwards though the compressor of the other turbo?

this is both providing a anti-torque on the second turbo

GARETH T

is anti-torque a word

Stavros

And me

See post above yours, beeeeatch

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

ok get what you mean now..............

would need some sort of valve i guess to divert the boost to the inlet

Anonymous

I can see just at a glance that the first turbo will be both trying to spin the second one backwards and also leaking boost like buggery down through the second turbo that should be going into the inlet, so i know the first turbo wont work very well, is that what you mean Karl?

Anonymous

LOL at us all replying with the same thing at the same time


Well either we all made the same revelation, or we all made the same mistake

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

anti-torque wtf

Anonymous

I didnt invent any new words in my reply, im nota trail blazer and pioneer like Gareth

GARETH T

i never wrote any new words aswell,, type "anti-torque" into google

Anonymous

Well off boost the big turbo allows the engine to breath through it (other wise no turbo car would run) with a minimal amount of resistance.

So i guess its pretty obvious that it must allow the same flow back through it the other way?

In which case, the bloke building that awesome car has utterly missed the point i guess :S

You could use an external wastegate type arrangement on the inlet as a valve to stop the pressure going back into the larger turbo i guess, but then you would also need one to stop it going from the inlet back through the smaller one too of course, lol

I guess the more you think/talk about it, the more stupid it seems.

Which is great, cause thats what i wanted to find out when i posted the thread, i knew there must be some reason, just wasnt obvious what it was

Mongo

So why's the brazillian geezer done it then?

Stavros

Its obviously a trailer queen that has NEVER ran. Look at the exhaust and manifolds.

And how many miliseconds you reckon that sticker would stay on the turbo inlet if the engine was running.

Itd never come on boost, one turbo would always be constantly overpowering the other (tho thatd make the car chatter non-stop, lol), itd be inneficient nightmare.

And like said, with valves totally cutting the flow to either the inlet or exhaust side of either turbo part way through the rev range when on full throttle would make that transition point horrible, as even if the big turbo is coming on strong and providing loadsa power, the other turbo STILL will be giving a significant percentage so if you block it, you will feel a very noticable drop in performance at that point.

Trust me, its been tried, its a nightmare.

This is why, like mentioned earlier, contrary to popular BS, cars like the Delta S4 dont bypass the charger once the turbo is on strong.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

shit man, its quite simple

ok see my excellent pic lol

BTW only 1 ball bearing is used!



now, with pneumatics they use valves like these (ok if you can get one big enough i dunno lol)

anyway, positive boost pressure from primary turbo will force the ball bearing over to block the flow of air through the secondary turbo.

when the bosst pressure from the secondary turbo overcomes the primary turbo boost pressure it will force the ball bearing over to block off the flow of air back through the primary turbo

hence positive boost pressure

Anonymous

Fuck me Dan, you know that might actually work!

Thats genius in its simplicity.

Would be one huge mother of a ball bearing if its in 2 inch inlet pipe though, and fuck knows what would happen to it when you went round corners, lol, i guess it would have to be a ping pong ball or something so it was light enough

dumped

Looks cool lol

Turbo selection for my car seemed pretty spot on 1st time - will be interesting when pushed harder

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

well yeah, summut like that lol

i know im a genius

ps, the T wont be that long, was just for illustration purposes, so ball wont have that far to move.

Stavros

Wouldnt work well in reality on a car engine, due to the horrible change in power at the transition point as mentioned earlier.

Certainly would produce positive boost tho

Be interesting to see how badly that worked actually

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

ah shuddup

Anonymous

Isnt that the noise your cossie rep makes when you come off throttle - the air going the other way and hitting the "spinning blades" that are traversing the wrong way, slowing them down so it can get out ?

Anonymous

Why does an athlete try to beat his PB everytime he competes even if his current PB is higher than athlete number 2 ?

Stavros

No, thats not his point.

Its pointless as it just wont work.

Like i said in an earlier post, its a show queen, that engine hasnt ever even ran, never mind came on boost.

Anonymous

you should drive the ball bearing using the boost pressure in a different system, however when you let of boost, and go round a corner, the bearing could stay in the same place, so when you get back on boost from the other turbo, its fucked.

Anonymous

Thats my point - they have built it so people look at it and think wow! then go to them for work.

Anonymous

Yes mate it is, although thats a little different as in that instance it has to work against the turbo too as its spinning at the time, where as here it wouldnt be (unless it was backwards!).

Anonymous

Why wouldnt it work?
Surely that system would perfectly smooth the transmission between the two as the point the ball moved from one end to the other would be the point where the boost was the same (+ a tiny little bit to move it)