RWD TRACTION CONTROL AND SIDEWAYS MOMENTS
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RWD TRACTION CONTROL AND SIDEWAYS MOMENTS
i have a e36 318 is coupe bmw (140bhp) not very fast but not mega slow book figure is 10.2 to 60mph which i think is not the case because at stratford in april at the interford show got 16.6 1/4mile pass which would suggest a mid to high 8 seconds to 60mph i think anyway
main point to th post is how do you rwd cossie owners manage with the standard 200 horses let alone stage 1 and beyond in this weather.
even with traction control on i am coming slightly sideways out of junctions etc.
so i thought i would try taking traction control off and going down some 'private roads' and having some fun even with only 140 horses i am going pretty sideways and almost lost in changing up to 2nd still goin sideways
is there any tricks in hanging in comfortably or relatively safely without cacking ya pants??
i was firmly on the rev limiter for some time will this damage the lifters thru running dry??
cheers
carl
main point to th post is how do you rwd cossie owners manage with the standard 200 horses let alone stage 1 and beyond in this weather.
even with traction control on i am coming slightly sideways out of junctions etc.
so i thought i would try taking traction control off and going down some 'private roads' and having some fun even with only 140 horses i am going pretty sideways and almost lost in changing up to 2nd still goin sideways
is there any tricks in hanging in comfortably or relatively safely without cacking ya pants??
i was firmly on the rev limiter for some time will this damage the lifters thru running dry??
cheers
carl
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also it is quite a good handling car it would essily out handle my modified rs turbo but i still seem to have lots of body roll and the car is jerking sideways do you cossie boys notice the bodyroll when the csr is flicking about??
carl
carl
#3
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i thought the traction on bmw was pretty good
just been out in my dads 330 ci sport, turned the traction control off and still got full grip in first!
it has 255 section pilot sports on it tho
just been out in my dads 330 ci sport, turned the traction control off and still got full grip in first!
it has 255 section pilot sports on it tho
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really?? dont get me wrong it grips well but with the damp on the road it really was going pretty sideways
i would love to try my old mans 535d out there today would be mad
carl
i would love to try my old mans 535d out there today would be mad
carl
#6
DEYTUKURJERBS
first thing to learn is that there are throttle positions between none and full
my old 400bhp cossie would spin wheels in every gear in the wet, but still easy to drive wet or dry.
my drift S13 lights em up easy enough in 3rd in the wet and hangs at some mega angles, chekit...
(arrow shows direction i was actually traveling in)
What you need is practice, and a decent diff.
Dont countersteer as such, just let go of the steering wheel
my old 400bhp cossie would spin wheels in every gear in the wet, but still easy to drive wet or dry.
my drift S13 lights em up easy enough in 3rd in the wet and hangs at some mega angles, chekit...
(arrow shows direction i was actually traveling in)
What you need is practice, and a decent diff.
Dont countersteer as such, just let go of the steering wheel
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#8
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as steve said, you have to realise that the throttle is gonna control the slide as much as your steering will.
get used to not shittin your pants when it starts to go, stay calm and keep the throttle in, lifting off will probably make the car snap the other way and you'll lose control.
don't try it with other cars close by!!
i should think it's a lot of fun with a fairly low power NA RWD car, very predictable i would have thought. Can be more testing with a laggy big power turbo car
Have Fun and BE CAREFUL
get used to not shittin your pants when it starts to go, stay calm and keep the throttle in, lifting off will probably make the car snap the other way and you'll lose control.
don't try it with other cars close by!!
i should think it's a lot of fun with a fairly low power NA RWD car, very predictable i would have thought. Can be more testing with a laggy big power turbo car
Have Fun and BE CAREFUL
#9
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cheers bud-weis
yeah it is fun i will try your recomendations on the same 'private road' i used earlier lol
if it snows even with traction on its going to be mad im rekoning
carl
yeah it is fun i will try your recomendations on the same 'private road' i used earlier lol
if it snows even with traction on its going to be mad im rekoning
carl
#15
DEYTUKURJERBS
Ive got v.v.v.close when drifting, but never actually hit anything yet, but its only a matter of time, ive span loads.
Ill be shocked if i dont seriously damage or destroy my S13 within a few months.
But im a bit more, shall we say, daring, than most
Maximum Attack baby
Ill be shocked if i dont seriously damage or destroy my S13 within a few months.
But im a bit more, shall we say, daring, than most
Maximum Attack baby
#17
............
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
but surely a 16.6 1/4mile is deffo quicker than 10.2 to 60
My Z-S is quoted at 10 seconds to 60 bit thats only because it goes to 58mph in 2nd so it is a bit quicker than you'd think in real life
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yeah i think the z-s are quite bit quicker than book figure i remember few years ago in my stage 2 xr2i i couldnt pull on one, i was quite embarrased lol
what has your z-s 1/4m in?
carl
what has your z-s 1/4m in?
carl
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Kinda on the same boat...
Ive an E30 316i.. noticed a few times, pulling away from junctions, changing up into 2nd, and sometimes 3rd, the back end it twitchy as hell.
All good fun though
Ive an E30 316i.. noticed a few times, pulling away from junctions, changing up into 2nd, and sometimes 3rd, the back end it twitchy as hell.
All good fun though
#20
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tried to drive my car the other day on a snow covered country road could only just keep the thing on the road
had a few close calls but its al good fun
learning everyday tho probably a matter of time before it all goes pearshaped tho
had a few close calls but its al good fun
learning everyday tho probably a matter of time before it all goes pearshaped tho
#23
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sideways is fun! it gets easier the more you do it. get yourself to a roundabout thats well out of the way and have some practise. i've only crashed once going sideways... well backwards after i span my mate maz's s14a... i scraped it against a post, it hurt my pride AND my wallet
the cossie is pretty easy to control in the wet... just don't put your foot down!
the cossie is pretty easy to control in the wet... just don't put your foot down!
#24
Advanced PassionFord User
try it on a island,and gradually build up your speed youll feel the point where it wants to break away,keep your foot in and keep practasing,as a few people have said the throttle has got more than 2 positions,so feather that peddle
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but with only 140bhp surely i wont need to feather it because they is not enough power to hold it sideways with only a little throttle?
i understand feathering it with a 3000bhp cossie
carl
i understand feathering it with a 3000bhp cossie
carl
#28
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letting go of the wheel is the trick
low power RWD is soooooo much fun
had more fun driving my Xr4i than ive ever had in another car
getting sideways in a big power car is always a little scarier
low power RWD is soooooo much fun
had more fun driving my Xr4i than ive ever had in another car
getting sideways in a big power car is always a little scarier
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BMW`s are shite when its slippy, no LSD`s unless you have a E36 M3 or 328 sport, iam not so sure about the E46 shape.
Last year in the snow mine got stuck outside my house in the snow while trying to reverse into my drive, just one wheel spinning
Last year in the snow mine got stuck outside my house in the snow while trying to reverse into my drive, just one wheel spinning
#31
DEYTUKURJERBS
Well standard LSDs dont do much at all really, they poo
Basically they stop all the power being transferred to the wheel of least resistance (ie the spinning one) helping traction.
Once you sliding a LSD helps control things hugely, though standard LSDs are worlds away from a proper one in regards to this.
Or you get a welded/locked one like mine, very driftable and makes any car soo much more fun, but you will soo kill yourself if you not careful, im living on borrowed time with it, trust me
Basically they stop all the power being transferred to the wheel of least resistance (ie the spinning one) helping traction.
Once you sliding a LSD helps control things hugely, though standard LSDs are worlds away from a proper one in regards to this.
Or you get a welded/locked one like mine, very driftable and makes any car soo much more fun, but you will soo kill yourself if you not careful, im living on borrowed time with it, trust me
#32
The absolute KEY to sliding/drifting a car properly is knowing when and how quickly to wind OFF the opposite lock.
Too many people with RWD cars think that simply applying 1/4 turn opposite lock of the steering wheel when the back steps out constitutes a big slide.......... and generally in a saff or other big lump of a car it does, as you can feel the weight transfer hugely, especially on soggy old suspension.
The two biggest problems are winding OFF the lock as mentioned, and backing off the throttle.
Now "ignoring" that power is feathered with the throttle, and assuming a linear power delivery to keep the wheels spinning (obviously not real world), then your first problem when removing the lock is when the car goes past the "break" point of opposite lock, and will then follow the course of the steering wheels as more grip is progressively returned as the car becomes more straight.
The second problem is much the same as the first, although hugely more exaggerated, as when you lift, you get almost instantaneous "grip" at the rear wheels, and you'll end up in a tank slapper, or shooting across in the direction of the steering wheels.
The point is that whilst the rear wheels are spinning and have limited grip, the car is actually muchy more controllable with the throttle.
Feathering the throttle will vary the grip levels at the rear - combine this with sensible steering input and you should be able to hold a perfect slide.
Just practice well away from the public road, and remember that it takes years to learn - I reckon I'm like at 2% of general ability, and I consider myself quite good!
Too many people with RWD cars think that simply applying 1/4 turn opposite lock of the steering wheel when the back steps out constitutes a big slide.......... and generally in a saff or other big lump of a car it does, as you can feel the weight transfer hugely, especially on soggy old suspension.
The two biggest problems are winding OFF the lock as mentioned, and backing off the throttle.
Now "ignoring" that power is feathered with the throttle, and assuming a linear power delivery to keep the wheels spinning (obviously not real world), then your first problem when removing the lock is when the car goes past the "break" point of opposite lock, and will then follow the course of the steering wheels as more grip is progressively returned as the car becomes more straight.
The second problem is much the same as the first, although hugely more exaggerated, as when you lift, you get almost instantaneous "grip" at the rear wheels, and you'll end up in a tank slapper, or shooting across in the direction of the steering wheels.
The point is that whilst the rear wheels are spinning and have limited grip, the car is actually muchy more controllable with the throttle.
Feathering the throttle will vary the grip levels at the rear - combine this with sensible steering input and you should be able to hold a perfect slide.
Just practice well away from the public road, and remember that it takes years to learn - I reckon I'm like at 2% of general ability, and I consider myself quite good!
#33
DEYTUKURJERBS
PON, get your ass down to Silverstone not this Saturday but the next, Drift UK practice day, 60quid
Im going
The 2degree ass twitch you mean
Also to note, about the winding off lock, if your properly sideways, trust me when i say letting go of the steering wheel and letting it unwind itself is a lot faster than you can steer back.
Its mega hard to get into your head, but it works, countersteering as fast as could was nowhere near as effective, apart from at spinning off and accidently turning on indicators and wipers
Im going
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Too many people with RWD cars think that simply applying 1/4 turn opposite lock of the steering wheel when the back steps out constitutes a big slide
Also to note, about the winding off lock, if your properly sideways, trust me when i say letting go of the steering wheel and letting it unwind itself is a lot faster than you can steer back.
Its mega hard to get into your head, but it works, countersteering as fast as could was nowhere near as effective, apart from at spinning off and accidently turning on indicators and wipers
#35
Testing the future
just watch tiff needell, he lets go of the wheel when drifting, and then holds it again at the right time. he's not too shabby at the old sideways stuff, although there is better
#36
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so my bmw wont have a lsd? just a nornal diff!!1 would welding that up help aswell as welding a limited slip one??
silverstone soounds good is it safe there enough room if you lose it?
carl
silverstone soounds good is it safe there enough room if you lose it?
carl
#38
DEYTUKURJERBS
Nah, your BMW wont have an LSD, and even standard LSDs are pooh anyhow.
You weld up diffs like yours with no LSDs, rather than diffs already with LSDs in em.
Only about 50quid to get it done.
Careful about getting it done on your daily driver tho, might not suit everyone!
Yea silverstone practice is held in the huge carparks (using cones/barriers/etc and so on to mark the track) with proper drifters there to help you out, so youl learn loads and wont do any damage.
Youl be letting go of the steeringwheel with confidence in no time.
Go on driftworks forum (www.driftworks.co.uk) and use the search engine, youl find loads on welded diffs and so on, and anything you cant find out about you can post and ask, lot of proper drifters there who can help you.
You weld up diffs like yours with no LSDs, rather than diffs already with LSDs in em.
Only about 50quid to get it done.
Careful about getting it done on your daily driver tho, might not suit everyone!
Yea silverstone practice is held in the huge carparks (using cones/barriers/etc and so on to mark the track) with proper drifters there to help you out, so youl learn loads and wont do any damage.
Youl be letting go of the steeringwheel with confidence in no time.
Go on driftworks forum (www.driftworks.co.uk) and use the search engine, youl find loads on welded diffs and so on, and anything you cant find out about you can post and ask, lot of proper drifters there who can help you.
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Welding a road cars diff is not really a very good idea, they dont like tight turns, like parking etc, can even snap the half shafts if you are unlucky
#40
DEYTUKURJERBS
Only in sub-10mph 90deg+ turns, and it goes round fine, just judders and chirps the rear wheels.
My SX has a welder, judders about as much as a decent 2way diff does TBH.
A lot of people run them on daily drivers, depends how much of a pussy you are, ive driven 100s of miles on em, no probs.
My SX has a welder, judders about as much as a decent 2way diff does TBH.
A lot of people run them on daily drivers, depends how much of a pussy you are, ive driven 100s of miles on em, no probs.