Esc Cos Amal Valve Problem, Suggestions Please?
17-11-2005, 12:53 PM
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Esc Cos Amal Valve Problem, Suggestions Please?
Well I finally sorted the water pump on me Esc Cos yesterday and took her for a drive! Ive got around 14psi boost, but nothing more (Should be running 34psi).
A few months back me and me bro was tidying up the engine bay, hiding wires, etc and decided to extend the wires on the Amal Valve so we can tuck them away. Upon the 2nd time of driving the car I noticed the boost was hitting around 14psi and around 5000rpm it peaked to what it shoud!
So I went to SCC to have it sorted out, but due to other things they didn't have time. So they put a bleed valve on and set it @ 30psi. It run fine without a problem. So I decided to change the wiring, which I used genuine Ford wiring for (Taken from another loom I had lying around) and tested it with the same problem!!!!
Anyway, changed the connector on it, change the Amal valve itself and still same problem! So I took the piping off and found the T piece from the amal valve to the turbo housing and actuator has 1 port bigger than the other 2. Assuming this was restricting boost I changed it round so the bigger port was going to the housing. Fixxed me water pump, went out last night and now only have 14psi
I did hear the Amal Valve clicking away on tick over, so I assuming its turning on and off...
Everything leads me to believe there is a wiring fault, but I am unsure of voltage, etc which needs to be going to each wire and at what time i.e. at full boost or on idle??
Can anyone suggest a way of testing the wiring, amal valve or even which way the T piece is meant to go please??
Any help is appreciated as this has me stumped now!!
Cheers...
A few months back me and me bro was tidying up the engine bay, hiding wires, etc and decided to extend the wires on the Amal Valve so we can tuck them away. Upon the 2nd time of driving the car I noticed the boost was hitting around 14psi and around 5000rpm it peaked to what it shoud!
So I went to SCC to have it sorted out, but due to other things they didn't have time. So they put a bleed valve on and set it @ 30psi. It run fine without a problem. So I decided to change the wiring, which I used genuine Ford wiring for (Taken from another loom I had lying around) and tested it with the same problem!!!!
Anyway, changed the connector on it, change the Amal valve itself and still same problem! So I took the piping off and found the T piece from the amal valve to the turbo housing and actuator has 1 port bigger than the other 2. Assuming this was restricting boost I changed it round so the bigger port was going to the housing. Fixxed me water pump, went out last night and now only have 14psi
I did hear the Amal Valve clicking away on tick over, so I assuming its turning on and off...
Everything leads me to believe there is a wiring fault, but I am unsure of voltage, etc which needs to be going to each wire and at what time i.e. at full boost or on idle??
Can anyone suggest a way of testing the wiring, amal valve or even which way the T piece is meant to go please??
Any help is appreciated as this has me stumped now!!
Cheers...
17-11-2005, 01:25 PM
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Are you using a 'normal' amal valve, or the EsCos version (Lektron valve)? Possibly only matters if you're still running a P8 ECU.... (also do you know what chip?)
17-11-2005, 03:16 PM
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Sounds like the amal valve pipes MAY be back to front.
On the escort (2 port type) valves, there is an internal one way valve
and if it is backwards, no air will flow no matter what the valve
is told to to electrically !
On the escort (2 port type) valves, there is an internal one way valve
and if it is backwards, no air will flow no matter what the valve
is told to to electrically !
17-11-2005, 04:56 PM
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BillaBong, Im running normal EscCos amal valve. Its a Harvey Gibbs 400bhp conversion...
SECS, I was thinking that too, but who knows which way round the T piece is meant to go??
Rog, Ive change the amal valve and will change actuator if worst comes to it. Cheers for the suggestion
SECS, I was thinking that too, but who knows which way round the T piece is meant to go??
Rog, Ive change the amal valve and will change actuator if worst comes to it. Cheers for the suggestion
17-11-2005, 05:14 PM
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"invest in some air injectors"
Would love to Dave, but got no details on them. Have you got prices, specs, etc please mate?
Would rather have this problem sorted tho cause my son has already said "No" to me buying him a few bits for the Cos for Christmas
Would love to Dave, but got no details on them. Have you got prices, specs, etc please mate?
Would rather have this problem sorted tho cause my son has already said "No" to me buying him a few bits for the Cos for Christmas
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17-11-2005, 05:16 PM
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have a goosie gander in the for sale section.. SapphyMikes been trying to flog a set for years
ECU needs a signal inverted then a boost curve mapped... but its well worth it. Retains ECU control over the boost..
destroy that fooking bleed valve!
ECU needs a signal inverted then a boost curve mapped... but its well worth it. Retains ECU control over the boost..
destroy that fooking bleed valve!
17-11-2005, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SECS
AIR INJECTORS
If you must ditch the amal valve.........
Save your self hundreds of Łs and buy a proper boost controller
If you must ditch the amal valve.........
Save your self hundreds of Łs and buy a proper boost controller
in a dark rally stage,in Spain some years ago
ello... ello senoir Saintz.. wake up senior Saintz... we have removed air injectors and have fitted blitz boot control.. very good no?
17-11-2005, 05:44 PM
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yes but you forgot.. air injectors look the part 
apart from these fake '090' stamped ones floating about.. some have even made their way to S.E London!
apart from these fake '090' stamped ones floating about.. some have even made their way to S.E London!
17-11-2005, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveEscos
yes but you forgot.. air injectors look the part
apart from these fake '090' stamped ones floating about.. some have even made their way to S.E London!
apart from these fake '090' stamped ones floating about.. some have even made their way to S.E London!
Dave, you are right, IMO i think more people buy them because of
what they look like (and possibly represent 500+bhp LOL)
rather that what they can actually do.
However, as a technical FACT...
If air injectors fail, you WILL get HUGE overboost.
If your chip has no boost limit (any car running more that 28 psi on a 3 bar will not have)
then it is bang bang melt down time
17-11-2005, 05:52 PM
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Because the 3 bar sensor limit is around 28 psi, if you run more boost
the ecu will not know you are.
Mappers get round this by fuelling your maximum boost (say 32 psi) for 28 psi in the chip.
The result is, the ecu puts the same fuel in for 28 psi as 32 psi.
This is a simplistic explaination but gives a good idea of what is going on.
the ecu will not know you are.
Mappers get round this by fuelling your maximum boost (say 32 psi) for 28 psi in the chip.
The result is, the ecu puts the same fuel in for 28 psi as 32 psi.
This is a simplistic explaination but gives a good idea of what is going on.
17-11-2005, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SECS
Because the 3 bar sensor limit is around 28 psi, if you run more boost
the ecu will not know you are.
Mappers get round this by fuelling your maximum boost (say 32 psi) for 28 psi in the chip.
The result is, the ecu puts the same fuel in for 28 psi as 32 psi.
This is a simplistic explaination but gives a good idea of what is going on.
the ecu will not know you are.
Mappers get round this by fuelling your maximum boost (say 32 psi) for 28 psi in the chip.
The result is, the ecu puts the same fuel in for 28 psi as 32 psi.
This is a simplistic explaination but gives a good idea of what is going on.
oooh.... lucky im only running 26 lbs
cheers
17-11-2005, 05:56 PM
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Dave, that doesnt mean your chip has a boost limit and from my experience,
most chips above dark greens and up dont have a limit !
Some dark greens chips dont either or have variable boost limits based on rpm
most chips above dark greens and up dont have a limit !
Some dark greens chips dont either or have variable boost limits based on rpm
17-11-2005, 06:54 PM
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Has anyone got any suggestions to the problem?? Its all well and good changing the boost controller (Which I will do in time), but it doesn't help me atm!
We've checked the voltage and the Amal Valve seems to be turning on and off correctly. We've made sure all pipes are tight and none are leaking! Will test it later, but if this dont work what next???
We've checked the voltage and the Amal Valve seems to be turning on and off correctly. We've made sure all pipes are tight and none are leaking! Will test it later, but if this dont work what next???
17-11-2005, 07:11 PM
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Can anyone tell me what this is??
Its connected to the inlet manifold via a vacume hose below the air charge temp sensor. It goes down under the map sensor and it connect to a black solonoid type thing?? This has a connector with black/red and a brown wire which I think is the same as the Amal valve wiring.
If I remember rightly this vents to atmosphere after this, should it connect to something??
(Just looking at all possibilities)
Its connected to the inlet manifold via a vacume hose below the air charge temp sensor. It goes down under the map sensor and it connect to a black solonoid type thing?? This has a connector with black/red and a brown wire which I think is the same as the Amal valve wiring.
If I remember rightly this vents to atmosphere after this, should it connect to something??
(Just looking at all possibilities)
17-11-2005, 07:29 PM
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That is the carbon cannister purge valve (for emmisions control)
It vents the fuel tank/carbon canister into the inlet manifold when not under boost.
Re Your amal valve problems, have you tried swapping the amal valve pipes over ?
It vents the fuel tank/carbon canister into the inlet manifold when not under boost.
Re Your amal valve problems, have you tried swapping the amal valve pipes over ?
18-11-2005, 05:26 PM
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Cheers Billabong, gonna have a play about in a mo ad see what happens! Ive replied to your PM.
Secs, Ive tried that and I think the combi of the T Piece being in the wrong way and the pipes being the wrong way round make the problem worse. Will change the Amal Valve to my old one and then play around with the pipes if I have some boost back!
Its depressing, people in my local area can actually keep up with me Cos atm
Secs, Ive tried that and I think the combi of the T Piece being in the wrong way and the pipes being the wrong way round make the problem worse. Will change the Amal Valve to my old one and then play around with the pipes if I have some boost back!
Its depressing, people in my local area can actually keep up with me Cos atm
19-11-2005, 12:18 PM
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Btt 
The purge gets feed off the inlet through a 1 way valve (arrow towards engine yeah?) then goes into purge then disapears under the abs unit - where does it go from here ? Guessin the carbon cannister but where's that if my car has one ? and should it be blocked off cos the car has no cat or anything now ? Also should the purge be connected ?
Cheers for all ya help
Steve
The purge gets feed off the inlet through a 1 way valve (arrow towards engine yeah?) then goes into purge then disapears under the abs unit - where does it go from here ? Guessin the carbon cannister but where's that if my car has one ? and should it be blocked off cos the car has no cat or anything now ? Also should the purge be connected ?
Cheers for all ya help
Steve
22-11-2005, 10:32 AM
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BillaBong, thanks for ya help mate its been much appreciated Will try re-connecting the Carbon thingy this week to see if any difference is made!
BBal, will take ya for a spin next time your out and about round my way
I changed the Amal Valve and still had no boost! So when out on Sunday night I looked @ the piping from the amal valve to the housing and actuator and put them how I thought they should go. I put the T-Piece larger port to the amal valve and drove home! She's now hitting more boost than she was, but feels as if its not running the total boost she can, so gonna shorten the pipes down and see if a difference is made
Will try re-connecting the Carbon thingy this week to see if any difference is made!BBal, will take ya for a spin next time your out and about round my way
I changed the Amal Valve and still had no boost! So when out on Sunday night I looked @ the piping from the amal valve to the housing and actuator and put them how I thought they should go. I put the T-Piece larger port to the amal valve and drove home! She's now hitting more boost than she was, but feels as if its not running the total boost she can, so gonna shorten the pipes down and see if a difference is made
22-11-2005, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by b19bal
aint the carbon canister on the escos on the inner wings ( im sure dave posted a pic of one before and asked what it was 
)
)Steve, I think shortening the pipes would worsen the situation - the longer the pipe, the longer it takes for whatever's controlling the boost to see the boost target....
Also, my memory ain't what it was
, but isn't your car running L8 (in which case you'd be better off utilising a Sierra 3 port amal valve? (I might be getting your car confused with another though)
22-11-2005, 11:59 AM
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Billabong, mine is Jason Brown's old Esc Cos Not sure which Ecu its running as I haven't had a look, but I do have a Sierra 2wd Amal Valve here I was thinking of bolting on and testing. Do you think this would be worth while??
Not sure which Ecu its running as I haven't had a look, but I do have a Sierra 2wd Amal Valve here I was thinking of bolting on and testing. Do you think this would be worth while??
22-11-2005, 01:49 PM
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Steve, give Harvey a call, or have a look at the ECU unit (passenger side footwell) It is the car I thought it was (and I *think* it was mapped on L8), Dingy would also know if he was still on here
I'm not sure that the two types of valve are compatible due to the way P8 controls boost.
I'm not sure that the two types of valve are compatible due to the way P8 controls boost.
22-11-2005, 03:24 PM
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lol dejavu did this not help ya? https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...light=#2036386
No car is Fletcher proof is it! lol Hope we see you at some events next year Steve!
Z
No car is Fletcher proof is it! lol Hope we see you at some events next year Steve!
Z
23-11-2005, 11:35 AM
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Billabong, been meaning to give Harvey a call, but feel out of order asking his advice when Ive had no work done by him!
Yo Zoe, how's things?? Cheers for digging that post up, that pic has just helped as my pipes are along longer than that (JB playing about as usual lol)
As for shows next year, I hope to get to some... But my life is so busy atm. Picking the son up from school @ 3pm and Ive gotta find a 1.4 Corsa engine before I leave Will try to get to some if the Cos stays on road long enough too
Thanks Dave for posting the pic, I never noticed it last time
Yo Zoe, how's things?? Cheers for digging that post up, that pic has just helped as my pipes are along longer than that (JB playing about as usual lol)
As for shows next year, I hope to get to some... But my life is so busy atm. Picking the son up from school @ 3pm and Ive gotta find a 1.4 Corsa engine before I leave
Will try to get to some if the Cos stays on road long enough too Thanks Dave for posting the pic, I never noticed it last time
23-11-2005, 11:43 AM
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Just shortened down me pipes and put them how they are it that pic (Cheers Zoe and Dave)... Anyone know which the big port on the T piece goes to?? Im assuming to the Amal Valve, but I will play about with it tonight when Im out if it dont work!
24-11-2005, 09:25 AM
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GOOD NEWS
She's Sorted
BIG THANKS to everyone who's posted a reply to my thread and it feels good to finally have some decent boost back
She's Sorted
BIG THANKS to everyone who's posted a reply to my thread and it feels good to finally have some decent boost back
24-11-2005, 10:32 AM
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Connor is at school now?! great to see a Dad that gets actively involved.
lol hey don't thank me, I just saw your thread and thought 'hmmm hadn't you already posted this problem before'... everyone else offered the proper advice
Corsa 1.4 engine? What the feck would you want one of those for lol
Great to hear it running properly finally
Z
great to see a Dad that gets actively involved.lol hey don't thank me, I just saw your thread and thought 'hmmm hadn't you already posted this problem before'... everyone else offered the proper advice
Corsa 1.4 engine? What the feck would you want one of those for lol
Great to hear it running properly finally
Z