Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

before i flog my ABS sensors to dave just seeing if im gonna shoot myself in the foot by getting rid of them.

car will be about 350bhp when done, but is ABS really necessary??

cant really be bothered with the extra wiring and pipework etc

THEYGOTMETOO

Personally I would keep the ABS and use a switch to turn it on and off as you want. 99% of the time it's turned off on my car, not keen on ABS at all.

Smit

iTrader: (5)

Rainbow said that and hugely regretted it.........

foreigneRS

definitely needed on the road, maybe not on the track.

as said, maybe have a switch for track, rally or snow driving

DaveEscos

naaaah... you dont need abs at all imo!!!

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

well was ok in me old car without lol, just could lock up at 90 pmsl

St3V3_C

Deffo worth having on the road.

Sorry Dave

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

i haven't had ABS working om my 3dr in almost two years as i have been to busy to sort it out. Obviously no problems but i might be pushing my luck lol

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

lol, cheers mate

fook it, seems to much hastle to connect up any how

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

yer fuck it off and just give me your ABS sensors

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

sorry, sold to dave escos

Anonymous

How have you been getting an MOT then Andy?

Thought that was a failure?


Or have you wired the ABS light up to the alternator light on the dash or something

Dan, i dont think that any car NEEDS to have ABS, but its a useful safety addition.

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

It is an MOT failure, on the 3dr however (as you know) there are two little amber LEDS for the ABS lights and they didn't notice this (and i didn't tell them ) if it was abig red light with "ABS" then i think it would be a different matter (and time to wire the ABS light to the oil pressure light or similar!)

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

well if i were to keep them, what else would i need?

ABS ECU, additional wiring, and is there and any extra brake pipe work as im going to replace all the pipes anyway but was just going to copy the existing one on the car, albeit run it inside the car.

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

abs pump and distribution block too dont forget

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

ahh sounds far too much hastle

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Go speak to Renton, we ripped all the ABS set up and servo out of the 3 door and replaced it with a pedal bias box.

I'm sure he will let you have it all at a good rate. I would just give it to you if I could be bothered to sort it all out.... but I can't which is why I'm telling you to speak to him

3dr wixsy

Yep i junked all mine too and ended up with a dustbin bag of wire, pipes and bits.Then also put in a bias pedal box, it'll give you loads more room in the engine bay as well

RichardPON

Dan - I can understand running without the ABS switched on, but you're still gonna have to have nearly all the components in there to keep it servo assisted, surely?

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

cheers lee, looks like far too much effort.

rich, the shell i have is a b reg 1.6GL, with no abs so it wont have all that gubbins in there.

with regard to a bias pedal box, not only do they sound expensive but do they allow you to adjust front and rear biasing i take it?

similar to a bias valve that you can buy?

gees iim not too clued up on this

RichardPON

A bias pedal box has a separate master cylinder for front and rear brake setups. The cylinders are usually connected by a balance bar, which allows you to distribute the pedal effort between the two clyinders.

Mine:

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

cheers rich.

so they still not got ABS either?

how much are they approx?

RichardPON

For a brand new super bling one like Lee's, fitted, with all the bulkhead mods, expect over Ł1k.

Mine was about half that, but the body already had the mods done.

Unless you're used to it, driving with a pedal box is a very "interesting" experience if you're only used to road stuff, as you've no servo.

Personally, I'd stick with the ABS, plumb everything in, and have the option to switch it off.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

arse.

i really cant be bothered with the ABS stuff

foreigneRS

a base model without abs originally fitted will also require bulkhead mods to fit it, albeit quite minor. iirc, you will need a brake pedal from an abs model as well, as the end where it actuates the master cylinder may be different. can't remember properly, it was nearly 5 years ago when i done it.

Azrael

Two ABS topics on one day.. wow (another one in Escos forum).

It is only matter of you skill. If you can brake well you don't need it. If you don't or are scared you need it. I switc of or brake ABS on all cars I can. I hate it.

foreigneRS

it's not a matter of if you can brake well - most people can, most of the time. it's those times of emergency when instinct takes over from driver training and you just press the pedal harder and harder. that's when you need abs.

a lot of people can do a complicated manouvre involving braking and turning to avoid something on a test track or in a rally when they have advanced warning of the obstacle (training or pace notes), but when it's completely unexpected (like a child running out in the road ) it becomes more difficult

Azrael

For years ABS was ot avalible and people could do that. Especially older sports drivers who live still they could do that. I kow some people who did literally milions of km's on Polish and European roads and never had road accident, and they never used ABS.


OF course it becomes more difficult, but this is the point of training - to practise untill it becomes automatic - like ABS build into your leg. Sometimes in bad conditions you can get into very dangerous situation because of the ABS, it won't let you brake before obstacle, it won't let you make the car turn... I wouldn't like to hit somebody becuse all that my ABS would do was "trrr trr trrrrr trrrrrrrrrrr". It's enought to have a pot hole on your ways undeer braking or a little sand on the road and you loose any braking at all.

It all goes back to skill at some point. I think 90% people from Subaru Club I know have ABS disconnected and all 3 Escos cars here I know have ABS broken or disconnected.

Maybe I am dangerous driver, but I simply cannot understand all this panic about locking-up. ABS has it's uses and I don't want to contradict that - usefull for those who don't have inclination or need to grow as drivers. That is what I think. I am really mad with EEC ragulation making ABS obligatory on new cars (as with nearly all new legislation connected to automobilism).

By the way - my Seicento has no ABS and shit tires, I drove in areas you know in Germany and I even braked from 180km/h on wet road and am still alive. Maybe just luck?

RichardPON

Azrael - unforunately most people aren't trained, and unless they race, they wouldn't be.

For the racing driver, in racing conditions, then of course ABS is not required, and braking is better without.

However, and as Dan will admit, he's no racing driver, AND he wants to use the car on the road.

I'd rather have the ABS, as with even the most experienced driver like Mike R for example, even he would have stopped faster with the ABS on, and not had the accident he did.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

well i managed a FOOKIN ace manouver a few years ago in the missus old mk2 fez, pissing rain on a duel carrageway, a lorry stopped in 1 lane, and cars skidding everywhere, it also involved the entrance and exit of a petrol station forecourt

i locked up, as a car came skidding in front of me, turned, off the brake, up the forcourt and out the other side

proppa shit myslef

but thats not to say that the ABS on my cabby helped when i nudged a landrover up the arse

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

rich, very true about me not being a race driver, but i do aim to take courses etc when the car is done so i can learn to drive it properly etc

Azrael

It's enought to practise braking on you own in most cases. Most of my "car friends" who are mostly rallymaniacs but that deosn't mean they race don't use ABS. I they control this pretty well. COuple of good driving courses and a little bit of practise on you own and you get holdof it I think.


I am not talking about racing conditions. Paradoxically in racing conditions ABS is usually forbidden (in circut racing)

If he braked earlier he wouldn hava accident true - it's always driver's mistake ABS on or off.


It's personal matter and anyone can decide whatever he want's. But if somebody ask if he can drive his car without ABS the answer is always yes (only on some modern cars you need to inwest in some mods to do that).

My personal choice is that ABS is good for my mom bad for me And that is only answer I can give to such question.

Azrael

)) The best way to do it !!! :-D


ABS is weight, and weight is enemy of performance

foreigneRS

i agree that driver training is very important, but it's very rare for a driver to be better than an abs/esp system under all circumstances all of the time.

agreed that the 3 channel system on cossies is not the best, and the slow pulsing rate is also very bad, particularly on snow/ice.

Azrael

Still if even there are situations when such systems will save you - would you rather let computer limit what you can do with your car or decide it yourself?

On snow, especially fresh one even Sports-ABS systems in new EVO's and STI's are really bad. Althought the system on non DCCD-A STi is the only one so far I've driven I can stand, it even let's you slide the car with main brake and does not couse so much understeer.

Anyway - for many many years people could live without those, why not anymore? Safety is in drivers head anyway - you have to foresee road situations, be prepared at all times and so on. Panic braking schouldn't happen more then couple of times in your life as my instructor often says. IF it does it's your driving style not the brakes.

foreigneRS

you're right, but if that one time you need it and don't have it and you injure or kill someone you might feel differently.

personally, like you, i would rather be in control of these things most of the time. but i would prefer to know that if my skills fail me, that there is something there to help me out. obviously if the abs system cuts in earlier than is physically possible by a moderately skilled driver, then it's not good enough.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

well said jakub

plus the fact i cant be arsed to plumb it all in

Azrael

I did crash one car in such a way that ESP system would have saved me probably. Never wanted tohave ESP though. It was me running out of talent. There were 2 persons injured too - me being one of them. Only my fault, have learned a lot since.



I am surely nothingmore then moderately skilled, then all ABS systems so far are shit