I know that it's old news but the FIA hearing is today.......

Alleged hidden "trick" fuel tank/collector/valve - pics below:

FIA seeking BAR disqualification
BAR's season could rest on the hearing in Paris
Formula One chiefs have asked for BAR-Honda to be disqualified from this year's championship at an appeal hearing in Paris on Wednesday.
Jenson Button's car was found to be five kilogrammes below the 600kg minimum weight at the San Marino GP.

"The FIA asks the court to exclude the BAR team from the world championship and to fine the team at least one million euros," a FIA statement read.

Credit:
As reported in Motorsport News - a MUST BUY mag - every Wednesday Ł 1.99 at all good news agents

 

What a cool trick!

Ingenious way of cheating that

 

 

gotta give em credit for a super clever way of cheating

is it all true, or just alleged at this time?

 

bastids

 

If you get away with it

BAR certainly seem to be the controversy team. Last year it was 'Button-gate', now its this

 

Alleged for now........BUT we may know the Paris FIA tribunal/court of appeal ruling by 5.00 PM today.

 

Cool! This is similar to that turbo restrictor that I read about a while ago, Doug was it you that found some stuff about that?

 

lets just say that I have "contacts".......people who trust me to keep things quiet
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Well someone posted on here about it, so it's not been kept that quiet

When the turbo inlet was connected it opened up a bypass hole that would let in more air that the restrictor would normally allow, but then when you removed the pipe, the hole closed over and was invisible?

Does that sound about right?

 

Was that the toyota one, that got bigger?

 

exploring the rules

 

Its not really cheating, its mearly bending the rules!!

 

 

Here you go Chip/Steve C:

http://freespace.virgin.net/shalco.com/tte_ban.htm

With thanks to Billabong for supplying the above link

You could say that Toyota were the FIRST with variable shroud turbo technology Like 10 years ahead of the turbo manafacturers them selves

"It's the most ingenious thing I have seen in 30 years of motorsport." admitted FIA President Max Mosley after an extraordinary meeting of the FIA's World Council convened following technical reports on Toyota from the Catalunya Rally.

The cause of complaint was that Toyota had fitted turbo restrictor?s which were modified in three ways:

1. The restrictor was not sealed so it was possible to move it without touching the seals.
2. It was possible for air to enter the engine without passing through the restrictor.
3. The position of the restrictor could be moved so it was further away from the turbine than the 50 mm limit permitted.

 

 

yeah i like a decent scam too

shows just how dirty real life is

must cause a fortune in unused fuel though

how come they was caught then , who forgot to close the valve !!!

 

Cheaters are often clever lol.

I remember checking out a Group A Escos.
It had quadlights but the two inner light holders were blanked.
When I put my finger on the blanking at the right hand side it swinged open.
It was hinged so that the windspeed would open it up and let more air into the filter. When standing still it stayed shut ie at the inspections.

 

that cant be that clever though as why have the center lights blanked


im guessing they got caught


i think the legal ones that are hidden from others are good, that way they cant copy ya and ya get the advantage and no penalty

 

It's pretty political too, the FIA arent particularly happy with Honda for backing the breakaway group as one of the major manufacturers......FIA are proving a point. There a bits of rule bending and clever engineering/electronics on all the cars......possibly with the exception of Minardi

Ever wondered how the Renaults launch so well........

 

UPDATE - some facts so far:

BAR Honda face F1 ban

Today is the day that BAR Honda put their case to the FIA, defending themselves against a disqualification amidst rumours of hidden fuel tanks and underweight cars.

The facts that have come out are clear cut. After the fuel was drained from Jenson Button's podium finishing car at San Marino, it was underweight. There's no argument over that detail at all.

Also known is that BAR managed to convince the stewards at the race that the car was legal, and the results stood.

Finally, the FIA, in an unprecedented move, have appealed against the decision of their own race stewards and are effectively trying to have BAR disqualified from the results of the San Marino Grand Prix.

Trying to speak to BAR representatives about this issue can best be likened to trying to stop Michael Schumacher's Ferrari in a Vauxhall Vectra - it's not happening, and it's obvious that it never will happen. We had to go elsewhere.

We spoke to a number of reliable sources in the Oxford area, and what we've been told makes interesting reading and, above all else, makes sense. BAR's problems seem to stem from a collection tank located inside the safety cell of the car. This tank holds fuel to feed under pressure to the engine so that the car can continue under power in high-G situations.

The collection tank is fed from the regular fuel tank. When the main tank is drained, we understand that the collection tank still retains some 6kg of fuel. This fuel us unusable. It's dead weight but is vital to the running of the car - without that fuel in the collection tank, the fuel system simply won't work.

BAR Honda appear to have interpreted the rules to suit their own developments, something that they've done on a number of occasions in recent years. They have assumed that the minimum weight of the car includes the fuel stored in the collection tank, as this is a vital and integral part of the cars design.

If that is the case, then the car can never be underweight. The stewards of the meeting seemingly agreed with this point of view, and allowed the results to stand.

However, after draining the fuel in the collector tank, the car was naturally found underweight. The FIA maintains that, being fuel, it cannot be used as ballast and must be able to be removed.

As ever, the FIA's own rules are vague, an intentional situation that is intended to allow for a degree of innovation in the design of the cars, but a situation that does lead to occasional problems over definitions.

We feel that BAR Honda will be able to argue that the fuel is stored permanently, and therefore the car cannot possibly be underweight during the race weekend.

However, life isn't that simple. By using this interpretation of the rules, BAR have had a 5kg advantage over the rest of the F1 field, as their collection tanks (which every car has a version of) have been storing fuel above and beyond the minimum weight. As such, the FIA are likely to find some area to argue legality over.

One such area may be the rule that allows for 2 litres of fuel to be left outside of the safety cell, intended to allow for fuel feed pipes, fuel pumps, etc.

The FIA may well argue that, in holding this fuel in the collection tank, they have far more than the permitted 2 litres. However, as the collection tank itself is within the safety cell, it will come down to how much of that fuel drains outside of the cell and, indeed, may redefine quite what constitutes 'inside' the safety cell.

The case is heard today, and the result should be out tomorrow, so stay tuned.

 

Update........Bernie has spoken:

F1 boss expects BAR to lose case................
Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone believes BAR will be found guilty of breaking the sport's rules.

Motorsport's governing body wants BAR thrown out of the world championship after Jenson Button's car was underweight after the San Marino GP.

"With the information that's available, you have to assume they'll be found guilty," said Ecclestone.

"There's always a reason for these things - it's never a mistake."

Button's car was found to be 5.4kg underweight when it was weighed at the end of the race at Imola last month.

The FIA found two additional fuel tanks within the main tank and believes the team were using fuel as ballast to allow the car to run light during a race - giving it a speed advantage.

And Ecclestone indicated that he did not believe BAR's story that athe extra fuel tanks could be explained innocently.

You could say the constructor cannot score points and maybe the driver loses the points he has now and all the other ones count

Bernie Ecclestone
"If they said they had a problem and they needed a particular part to overcome a particular problem, they would have gone to the FIA," he said.

Ecclestone - who is an FIA vice-president in addition to his role running the commercial side of F1 - said that if BAR were found guilty, a financial penalty alone would not be enough of a deterrent.