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General Car Related Discussion.To discuss anything that is related to cars and automotive technology that doesnt naturally fit into another forum catagory.
I find all the graphs for efr 9180 cars only running around the 700hp mark look like that tbh
Cheers Paul
Mine breaks the mold then mate as it's on the massive 1.45 a/r and pump fuel for a big curve imo
500 hp 500 lbft by 5500 rpm and holds on to good power and torque right to 8500 rpm
Mark assures me with the 1.05 housing that would give alot more curve to the left with very little lost from the right, but I like the big one it's ready for more power if I choose at a later date
Mine breaks the mold then mate as it's on the massive 1.45 a/r and pump fuel for a big curve imo
500 hp 500 lbft by 5500 rpm and holds on to good power and torque right to 8500 rpm
Mark assures me with the 1.05 housing that would give alot more curve to the left with very little lost from the right, but I like the big one it's ready for more power if I choose at a later date
I wouldn’t say it breaks the mold, full boost is probably well after 5500rpm, still extremely laggy for 700hp.
it would do loads better on a smaller turbo as you know but you also bought the car in that spec (instead of the 900hp it was designed and built for) so it is what it is
I wouldn’t say it breaks the mold, full boost is probably well after 5500rpm, still extremely laggy for 700hp.
it would do loads better on a smaller turbo as you know but you also bought the car in that spec (instead of the 900hp it was designed and built for) so it is what it is
Cheers Paul
When it makes full boost is dependant on which gear it's in, the higher the gear, the more load and the sooner it will come on boost
I can't imagine any 2 litre 4 banger can have a much bigger curve than that on pump fuel at a sensible boost level around 30 psi
From my experience of alot of high power cars that is one hell of a curve for that power from a small engine
To make 1000 hp with minimum lag a little 4 banger is a waste of time you need a bigger engine, that's not opinion it's physics !
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 02-02-2020 at 02:50 PM.
When it makes full boost is dependant on which gear it's in, the higher the gear, the more load and the sooner it will come on boost
I can't imagine any 2 litre 4 banger can have a much bigger curve than that on pump fuel at a sensible boost level around 30 psi
From my experience of alot of high power cars that is one hell of a curve for that power from a small engine
To make 1000 hp with minimum lag a little 4 banger is a waste of time you need a bigger engine, that's not opinion it's physics !
I know that but it still mega laggy, it’s a 1000hp turbo you’ve chose to run 700hp on so it’s gonna be!
Also your engine has had so much work done to it and is such a wild spec it’s always gonna do big numbers as that’s what it was built for.
It’s a one-off no expense spared engine
If anything the turbo is holding it back being to big, but as you’ve said you may go more power in the future so again it is what it is for now in that state of tune
[QUOTE=scoooby slayer;6806821 To make 1000 hp with minimum lag a little 4 banger is a waste of time you need a bigger engine, that's not opinion it's physics ![/QUOTE]
I know this but yours has loads of lag for only 700, that’s the point in question
I know that but it still mega laggy, it’s a 1000hp turbo you’ve chose to run 700hp on so it’s gonna be!
Also your engine has had so much work done to it and is such a wild spec it’s always gonna do big numbers as that’s what it was built for.
It’s a one-off no expense spared engine
If anything the turbo is holding it back being to big, but as you’ve said you may go more power in the future so again it is what it is for now in that state of tune
Cheers Paul
If your meaning like 500 rpm as mega extra lag then I'm in aggreance, I can't see any 4 banger making full boost much before 5000 rpm for 710 hp on pump fuel with 30 psi
No one else has your extensive engine spec so yours is gonna be a bit different.
Shame it’s held back with a turbo that’s too big but as long as your happy that’s all that matters
No one else has your extensive engine spec so yours is gonna be a bit different.
Shame it’s held back with a turbo that’s too big but as long as your happy that’s all that matters
Cheers Paul
I'm well chuffed Paul I think it's an incredible turbo it will exceed what the gt42 did on race fuel just by tuneing to same boost on pump fuel, less lag and more power.
as far as I'm concerned my dyno plot proves they aren't a laggy turbo at all considering the flow they can produce imo
as far as I'm concerned my dyno plot proves they aren't a laggy turbo at all considering the flow they can produce imo
That’s fine but full boost at well over 5.5k is laggy, Dave’s escort cos and Mark Hudd’s 3dr are the same, massive power yeah cos they have huge turbos but mega laggy and they don’t make the power yours does high up in revs as their engine specs are a lot tamer, it has to be to flow 900/1000hp like you also just said.
That statement contradicts itself....
That’s fine but full boost at well over 5.5k is laggy, Dave’s escort cos and Mark Hudd’s 3dr are the same, massive power yeah cos they have huge turbos but mega laggy and they don’t make the power yours does high up in revs as their engine specs are a lot tamer, it has to be to flow 900/1000hp like you also just said.
That statement contradicts itself....
Cheers Paul
Show me a dyno plot of a 4 banger with over 700 hp with a curve at or below 5000 rpm, I doubt you will find one on a little engine
To expect big response and low lag a bigger engine is needed these ybs are a tiny little engine
Look at my virtually stock vr38 engine
That is pump fuel 22 psi, you simply will not get anything like that expecting a 2 litre engine to make that power, it's not possible
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 02-02-2020 at 04:52 PM.
Show me a dyno plot of a 4 banger with over 700 hp with a curve at or below 5000 rpm, I doubt you will find one on a little engine
To expect big response and low lag a bigger engine is needed these ybs are a tiny little engine
Look at my virtually stock vr38 engine
That is pump fuel 22 psi, you simply will not get anything like that expecting a 2 litre engine to make that power, it's not possible
My point is still the same though, that turbo on your engine for 700hp is really laggy, same as Mark’s and Dave’s.
everyone says efrs are so low lag and make the car more driveable etc etc but only for the small frame turbos.
The 9180 is too big for 700hp, you would get the same top end results and less lag with a smaller turbo giving you a wider powerband.
Like the comment mentioned earlier in the post most want efrs for big early low down torque figures that then drop off, the powerbands are no better but they feel quicker.
If your meaning like 500 rpm as mega extra lag then I'm in aggreance, I can't see any 4 banger making full boost much before 5000 rpm for 710 hp on pump fuel with 30 psi
Depends on the size of that 4cyl.
It'd be interesting to see these new Garrett's. The numbers they are claiming seem so hard to believe, both with such a small compressor housing, and even more so such a small turbine.
The Compressor wheel itself seems fairly standard for the power claims it can support though
My point is still the same though, that turbo on your engine for 700hp is really laggy, same as Mark’s and Dave’s.
everyone says efrs are so low lag and make the car more driveable etc etc but only for the small frame turbos.
The 9180 is too big for 700hp, you would get the same top end results and less lag with a smaller turbo giving you a wider powerband.
Like the comment mentioned earlier in the post most want efrs for big early low down torque figures that then drop off, the powerbands are no better but they feel quicker.
Cheers Paul
They are not laggy, go and find any other turbo that will make over 700 hp on pump fuel on a yb, then look where it comes on boost, any little 2 litre engine making that power will sacrifice some bottom end, I can't understand why you can't see that ?
Just to be clear what I'm saying here, it's physically impossible to have a yb make over 700 hp and have peak curve like my gtr starting at 3000 rpm, you simply cannot have low down response and big top end hp it's physically impossible with just one turbo
My new gtr is the same principal it has 2 95 lb/min turbos full curve starting at 5500 rpm and going onto about 1250 hp on pump fuel at 28 psi, that's like 2 1.9 engines running 625 hp each with full boost around 5500 rpm
I don't know how much quicker your expecting boost to be in by, I don't believe you have realistic expectations of what can physically be achieved
The only current 700hp YB’s I know of and graphs I’ve seen are using 9180 turbos so I cant.
But all them owners will also tell you they are laggy, they are too big, that’s just fact, why use a 1000hp rated turbo for 700hp, I’ll tell you why, cos the owners all want 700hp regardless of when it makes boost or how laggy it is.
I know of some other yb’s with over 700hp but they’ve not been on dynos to my knowledge.
but those guys ain’t chasing numbers...
The only current 700hp YB’s I know of and graphs I’ve seen are using 9180 turbos so I cant.
But all them owners will also tell you they are laggy, they are too big, that’s just fact, why use a 1000hp rated turbo for 700hp, I’ll tell you why, cos the owners all want 700hp regardless of when it makes boost or how laggy it is.
I know of some other yb’s with over 700hp but they’ve not been on dynos to my knowledge.
but those guys ain’t chasing numbers...
Cheers Paul
If you buy a turbo rated to 700 hp max it is extremely difficult to actually get the 700 hp out of it when using a tiny little 2 litre yb engine
however stick a 9180 on my RS6 and it will piss past 700 hp easily and have good response
Over 700 hp and small capacity will always be laggy, my new gtr will be a lag fest as well it's the price I have to pay for serious power levels and I gladly pay that price
It has sparked an interest in my mind this discussion, I wonder with say a full boost by 3500 rpm with a yb the maximum power it is possible to make nowadays ? Back in the day only a T3 would of done that and about 300 hp
So your saying you can’t get any sooner response than what you have for 700hp with the same top end power as what you currently have?
Cheers Paul
I don't think it's possible to get it below 5000 rpm, efrs are rated 600-1000 hp but I'd imagine there minimum rated engine size is bigger than a yb
Obviously there's potentially some extra available by running a smaller housing or even a slightly smaller turbo but the turbo will be flat out, and generating huge amounts of heat as it will need to be restrictive to get the extra response, but over 700 hp is never going to be boosting like a T3 imo
Turbo speed on these efrs is 116000 rpm maximum, I'm running 101000 rpm for 710 hp, so I'm at roughly 80 percent, anything running at 100 percent will drastically reduce reliability, with my exhaust side flowing nice and freely my exhaust manifold temps are below 700c and my inlet temps below 40c and no water inj required.
With a smaller turbo or smaller housing temps will increase its inevitable more restriction = more heat
9180’s on YB’s are still as laggy as fuck lol
Great turbo for number chasers
Cheers Paul
It's not 9180s, any yb running over 700 hp will be laggy
I'm sure I saw you had a dyno plot of your car making about 540 hp and not being on boost til about 5000 rpm on a dyno dynamics, do you have a plot for it ?
9180’s on YB’s are still as laggy as fuck lol
Great turbo for number chasers
Cheers Paul
So I found your dyno plot which I believe was from a gt30 on your yb
I believe that was pump fuel at 30 psi boost
Now I've done an overlay of yours and my plot, both runs shootout 4f so at same load, had to add your curve onto my plot
and my plot added onto yours
My plot is blue line, yours is pencil line, the lines intersect at 5250 rpm
Those lag thresholds are very similar
So it's far from a "number chaser" turbo it's got almost the equivelant lag as your gt30 engine with the potential for 900 hp, I'd say that is brilliant and a very low lag setup
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 03-02-2020 at 08:55 AM.
It’s not really a daily driver ybt ,it was built for top speed runs ,but yes if it had a smaller turbo and the capped bhp was 700 hp then a smaller mm turbo and smaller ex housing would obviously be more streetable and responsive low down but would be out of puff at 700
Same with any engine,spec the turbo for what your gonna use it for
It’s not really a daily driver ybt ,it was built for top speed runs ,but yes if it had a smaller turbo and the capped bhp was 700 hp then a smaller mm turbo and smaller ex housing would obviously be more streetable and responsive low down but would be out of puff at 700
Same with any engine,spec the turbo for what your gonna use it for
It is built to be a daily driver though mate that's the whole point a big useable power band which rod always wanted, now I've overlayed it with Trev's gt30 plot it shows just how well that massive turbo is working for its size with the engine spec, by no means laggy imo
It’s not really a daily driver ybt ,it was built for top speed runs ,but yes if it had a smaller turbo and the capped bhp was 700 hp then a smaller mm turbo and smaller ex housing would obviously be more streetable and responsive low down but would be out of puff at 700
Same with any engine,spec the turbo for what your gonna use it for
Exactly! Spot on.
it’s a top speed machine that’s now been de—tuned with a turbo that’s too big for that spec hence it being really laggy.
it’s not a daily driver spec at all lol
So it's far from a "number chaser" turbo it's got almost the equivelant lag as your gt30 engine with the potential for 900 hp, I'd say that is brilliant and a very low lag setup
This made me chuckle, why would you even consider comparing my old gt30 spec to your no-expense spared 900hp spec engine??
first of all my engine was just an average spec, low comp 2lt engine with a weird hybrid gt30 (that was on the car when I bought it hence I was making do with it till I purchased a new one) so it was gonna be laggy, I knew that, I was making the best of the setup I already had.
Ypur build is in another league! The biggest best turbo out there, 2.2lt high comp engine with all the best parts possible fitted.
Even though there’s 200hp difference they are just not comparable, at all!
If I had the correct gt30 fitted it would of been 800-1000rpm better spooling than it was.
If you think your setup is low lag then you are on drugs.
it needs at least a smaller exhaust housing for its best setup at that power, but as long as your happy with the lag then I guess none of this matters....
If that’s just for me, honestly don’t worry about it, I’m not fussed tbh
Cheers Paul
I've got them now from my logs on the dyno, 3rd gear
I've just got to convert from kpa to psi
theres 2 plots at rpm points as it's a time Vs rpm scale so boost has to have a point
First one 4270 rpm 22 psi of boost so coming well on boost way before 5000 rpm
And 5412 rpm 37 psi full boost
It's actually a little better than I expected I was working on 5500 rpm as max boost
And 22 psi at 4200 rpm is alot better than I imagined considering that massive housing
The best bit for me is this though
A peak of 645 degrees manifold temperature from a yb running over 700 hp, minimum strain on the motor imo, those temps will go north with more restrictive hot sides
I suppose I should add these to the efr 9180 thread that was on here so the info is there if anyone's looking
I see a alot of sense in running a larger turbo slower to reduce stress and keep temps well under control if using the car for fun. I think MAD & slayer has it right on with that setup. Reliability is key with road fun cars, but if your talking competition then that's a different kettle of fish.
I've got them now from my logs on the dyno, 3rd gear
I've just got to convert from kpa to psi
theres 2 plots at rpm points as it's a time Vs rpm scale so boost has to have a point
First one 4270 rpm 22 psi of boost so coming well on boost way before 5000 rpm
And 5412 rpm 37 psi full boost
It's actually a little better than I expected I was working on 5500 rpm as max boost
And 22 psi at 4200 rpm is alot better than I imagined considering that massive housing
The best bit for me is this though
A peak of 645 degrees manifold temperature from a yb running over 700 hp, minimum strain on the motor imo, those temps will go north with more restrictive hot sides
I suppose I should add these to the efr 9180 thread that was on here so the info is there if anyone's looking
That's just a quick dyno pull. How does it fair holding that for 20s ? Temps are still climbing, they're starting from cold, and most thermocouples are pretty slow, so often on a short blast can appear cooler than things actually are if temps are allowed to stabilise.
Although...I do suspect this thread got rather off topic LOL
I see a alot of sense in running a larger turbo slower to reduce stress and keep temps well under control if using the car for fun. I think MAD & slayer has it right on with that setup. Reliability is key with road fun cars, but if your talking competition then that's a different kettle of fish.
I'm certainly happy Matt with strong boost at 4200 rpm in 3rd gear and it's all still as per rods spec, will do me and is by no means laggy imo
I've had t4 ybs in the past laggier than that lol
And it's running cool on both sides should be good for some reliable fun and still be bloody quick
That's just a quick dyno pull. How does it fair holding that for 20s ? Temps are still climbing, they're starting from cold, and most thermocouples are pretty slow, so often on a short blast can appear cooler than things actually are if temps are allowed to stabilise.
Although...I do suspect this thread got rather off topic LOL
My gtr gets up into the 900s in quick succession in the manifold I've watched it many times on the toucan while nailing it, the big housing will make it run cooler than the smaller one so it's as cool as it can be which is a good thing imo
And yes way of topic lol, although it is an efr 9180 on it same as the astra
My gtr gets up into the 900s in quick succession in the manifold I've watched it many times on the toucan while nailing it, the big housing will make it run cooler than the smaller one so it's as cool as it can be which is a good thing imo
And yes way of topic lol, although it is an efr 9180 on it same as the astra
900 on a short single pull seems extremely high.
Maybe at the end of a 1/4 or something it might be getting up there on a hard run.
Maybe at the end of a 1/4 or something it might be getting up there on a hard run.
So any graphs of the 9180 on the Astra ? lol
That would of been up at 130+ mph in the gtr but the saph will be upto about 130 mph on the dyno
My gtr would be alot higher than 650 in the same scenario it climbs very quickly once on boost, Ryan had to add extra fuel in the midrange to help with cooling making it to rich
02-02-2020, 01:23 PM
