Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

About 5 or 6 years ago when my 4x4 sapph went for the MoT it failed on the left front wheel bearing having too much play. I figured it was just broken, so I ordered a new bearing. But when I went to replace the wheel bearing I found the hub nut was just loose. Why this happened I don't exactly know. I figured it might have been due to the thread being normal right handed, while on the left rear wheel the thread is left handed to prevent it coming loose. On the front you should knock the nut in with a screwdriver to prevent it coming loose. I believe that wasn't done (before I had the car). So I just tightened it and knocked the nut as should have been done originally. After that everything has been fine.


3 years ago when I went to the Nurburgring I had a problem with the front brakes. First I drove 200 km up to the ring and that was all fine (as far as I noticed). But as soon as I went on the track I noticed the car pulled to the left when braking. Because of this I took it very easy, but I noticed that after a while braking got back to normal. The second and third time on the track it was exactly the same. At the time I thought it had something to do with the front brakes as I just upgraded those to a new setup. At home I inspected the brakes but couldn't find anything.


A while later the car had to go for the MoT again and then failed on the right front wheel bearing having too much play. In the end that also explained the brake problem I had. Due to the play in the wheel bearing the disc pushed the brake pads away and when I started braking the pads first need to be pushed back on the disc. But strangely the play in the bearing was gone when some heat went into it.


This time I was sure the hub nut didn't come undone to cause the play. Again I tightened the hub nut and it has been fine ever since, including going out on the track several times.


Now the strange thing comes. Last year I bought a set of Team Dynamics wheels and since that I have problems with the spigot ring on the front right wheel. The first ring that was in cracked. So I replaced it with a new one last summer. When I took the wheel off this winter the new spigot ring stayed on the hub instead of in the wheel. I took the ring off the hub and put it back in the wheel. Initially it was a tight fit in the wheel, but now it was loose inside the wheel. So a few weeks ago I complained to the Team Dynamics dealer that the rings were bad and I got a new set for free. Two weeks ago I took the car to the track again and there everything was fine. But yesterday I took the right front wheel off and the new ring was again stuck on the hub. I took it off and compared it to another new ring I still have. The ring that was on the car has shrunk. Both the inner and outer diameter are smaller than on the new ring.


Why is this happening every time on the same wheel? I can only imagine it shrinks because of (too much) heat. Heat could either come from the brakes, but then I would expect the same to happen on the left front wheel, or from the wheel bearing. So is there something wrong with my wheel bearing? Is it generating too much heat and should it be replaced, although I have no other problems at all with the bearing? Or are the plastic Team Dynamics spigot rings just rubbish?

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

The spigot ring only centres the wheel ready for you to tighten up the wheel nuts, its function ceases after that, it has no load bearing requirement.

Sounds like the bearing is getting hot and affecting the plastic ring.

Adam-M

I'd be stripping your front hub for a close inspection of that bearing and just replace it anyway to rule it out, it's asif the bearing collapses almost when it heats up.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

How hot can bearings normally get? I also read about someone even melting the Team Dynamics on the track, but that's probably due to the brakes.

http://www.cliosport.net/threads/whe...-track.748684/

But it does make me wonder about the quality of these rings. If there was something wrong with the bearing I should notivce it in another way right, like play or noise?

Adam-M

See when your spigot rings fail does that cause your wheels to have excess play? Maybe that's where the mot guy picked up on the bearing problem?

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

No it doesn't. After tightening the hub nut it passed the MoT without a problem and that was with different wheels, that didn't have this problem with the spigot ring.

gcfcos

U can buy aluminium spigot rings, may be better off with them?

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

That might be an option. I suppose aluminium spigot rings are better than plastic anyway. But I was mostly wondering whether my wheel bearing is ok or not.

Caddyshack

Just replace the bearings to rule them out...not worth messing about with. Fully inspect the hub whilst it is being done and replace that if anything looks worn.

I assume you are torquing the hub nut up to the correct NM torque and not just "tight"?

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

I don't remember anymore how I tightened it up. I suppose to the correct spec (205-235 Nm according to my workshop manual), but I can check it again. I don't really feel like replacing it when the only problem that I have is a spigot ring that is shrinking.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

An update on this... I re-torqued the hub nut to something like 220 nm (the Ford workshop manual for the 4x4 sapph says 205 - 235 Nm (thread greased). But after this I noticed the car was again pulling to the left while braking. Unfortunately I had to drive quite a distance like this and after some while the pulling to the side during braking was gone, just like it was a few years ago. Afterwards I checked the spigot ring and now it was still fine, so it is definately something with the wheel bearing, which was now too loose.


So I torqued it again thinking my torque wrench might not be accurate at these high numbers. But when looking for the torque setting again I noticed that the same manual that prescribes 205-235 Nm for the 4x4 sapph prescribes 310-350 Nm for the Escort Cosworth. But as far as I know those parts are exactly the same. The only difference is that it says 'thread greased' for the Sapph and not for the Escort. So does anyone know what the correct number is?

cossynut2

Marc sierra. Unusual to see you asking for help from others, you are usually the one that has a lot of knowledge on Saffs and helps others with their problems. Hope you get it sorted.

jsa

Lubricated VS dry threads makes a big difference to friction and therefore torque spec. Both numbers can be right.

ray barker

sorry if i havnt read all the thread properly but when you had the original problem with the shaft stub nut being loose i would of changed the hub /bearing instead of just tightening even if id only gone a few miles with it. from what i gather it went arround a track like that.when i first left the motor trade i did break down recovery its common to go to a job and find the garage lad has forgoten to do up the drive shaft i wouldnt let them carry on