Bailes1992

I have a Focus with a DV6 derived 1.5TDCi. In fact it is a DV6, the only difference is a short throw crank to reduce it to 1.5 litres for the Indian market as they get heavily penalised for engines over 1500cc.

If you google DV6 Turbo failure or DV6 Oil Issues you will uncover hundreds of threads about the 1.6TDCi/HDi PSA/Ford partnership engine. The tiny 3.8 litre oil capacity simply cannot cope with long service intervals and the oil gets saturated. There's an oil filter inline with the turbo which eventually gets blocked as a result and pop goes the turbo.

Knowing my car was a basically a DV6 when I bought it and that 12 Month / 12,000mile oil changes were pushing the engine a bit I decided to stick to 6 month / 6,000mile intervals. I'm doing the 'in between service' oil changes myself and using a reputable local to do the services.

I've always been told only to use genuine oil filters as they are of a much higher quality than even the best OEM manufacturers. I've been told this hundreds of times by many different people.

I went out to Halfords and got 4litres of oil on trade for £11 and popped to Ford for an oil filter and sump plug washer.

Ford gave me filter number 1.

1) Genuine Ford Filter - £14.72


I must admit I was really dissapointed by the quality. Filter is branded 'Mahle'. I wasn't expecting Ford, but Motorcroft or Bosch at least! A paper bottom and only single pleated in one direction. So I went and purchased another...

2) Genuine Citreon/Peugeot Filter - £12.42

Exactly the same as the Ford one. Both branded 'Mahle'. Both have the same part numbers.

So I decided to pop on Euro Car Parts and see what they had to offer...

3) Bosch Oil Filter - £7.91 delivered

The exact same filter. Same feel, same weight, same size box. However it is branded 'Bosch'.

4) Mann Oil Filter - £6.40 delivered

Once again. The same filter. Branded 'Mann'.

Convinced there must be better alternatives out there I tried Halfords.

5) Filtron Filter - £6.99 Trade

I see a pattern emerging. Branded as 'Filtron'.

I decided to try one more filter before handing in the towel. I popped to my local Motor Factors and picked up this...

6) Wix Filter - £8.04

Branded 'Filtron'

All the filters together...




Even the boxes are identical. Just different printing...


I've only ever bought canister filters so you cannot see what exactly is inside them.
I'm starting to wonder if I've been wasting my money buying genuine the last 5 years because the budget ones seem identical to ones costing over twice as much. Why do people always seem to warn against buying aftermarket oil filters?
It really does seem like all these have been made in the same factory and branded to suit.

Bailes.

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

If the car is under warranty I would always use the Ford / Mahle filter in case of a claim that they could worm out of. I would be replacing the in line filter for the turbo oil supply too regularly.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Would be cheapos for me. Only my cossie gets genuine oil filters.

Tbh the Ford one is properly made by one of the other companys which you have infront of you.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Just to let you know we use the filtron filters on our vans in the fleet. We have used them for years with no problems.

Csm

Well you have 6 service worth of filters now plenty to keep you going

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

If your gonna change the filter,make sure you dont snap the lug of the filter or the engine oil light will stay on.

I know cause ive done it myself lol.

haz87

Wow thats commitment to checking something fairly trivial

I've always stuck with OE for my own vehicles but experience and working on plenty of others tells me theres not alot out there that is OE only these days. Always worth looking about as chances are its rebranded elsewhere cheaper

st220kyle

That lot should keep you going for a few years

fuzzy

is the material making up the actual filter parts all exactly the same ? to look at , texture etc? the way everything is standardised these days to save costs it wouldn't surprise me if several are made using exactly the same materials and in the same factories but just rebranded.

studabear

Click the filter into the engine then push the cap into the filter and screw it in.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Yerp this is the way i do it now lol.

Bailes1992

All filters were sold to me as OE quality. Obviously they're all identical so I wouldn't dispute that.
It would be up for Ford to prove that the filter is of an inferior quality.
Would you use an aftermarket oil with Ford spec on it? Yes. So why not filters?


They'll all be used in 18 months. The girlfriends brother has just bought a 1.5TDCi Fiesta so we can use them on that as well.

I was axtually going to take the more expensive ones back and my Missus said "Don't be so f***ing stupid. You'll probably use them in 3 weeks knowing you."

I done it last time too.
I open up the bottom of the filter now with a socket slightly bigger than the hole. Makes spinning the filter lid on much easier.

They are all exactly the same. They look the same, feel the same and all weigh the same. I'm pretty convinced they are all made in the same factory but branded to suit. Like I said, even the boxes are identical.


From now on I will shop around for the cheapest OE quality filter. With oil at £11 for 4 litres it makes oil changes a sub £20 no brainer.

I may purchase 2 or 3 fuel filters and air filters when they are due to see if there is a difference between them.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

I used to buy cheapo ones until I got one for a mates car from Halfords, then realised the genuine one had a prv inside and the cheapo replacement didn't

cossynut2

Bailes 1992, very interesting, they are all exactly the same and must all be made by the same factory. Makes a joke of " I only use genuine Ford parts as they are the best " I bet these days there must be loads of other parts that people assume are unique to their car and are in fact the same as loads of others.

Csm

I have the 1.6 tdci engine in my zetec s focus and just had its second oil and filters change. The car will be 1 year old come end of january and its on 24k now from the 6 miles it had on the clock when bought.

1st service i bought genuine ford oil and filters at a cost of £100 delivered, this time i used mann oil + air filters and bought shell helix oil from ecp for £34 this time it cost, Mate who has his own garage was starting to think wix was suppling ford with the filters.

Crossland are decent aswell, Fram used to be but find there air filters dont fit worth a fuck anymore and diesel filters were hassle on the old 2.0 tdci mondeo i had, stuck a gen ford one on and no problem.

Fullflush

The funny thing is you are putting oil worth £11 in after caring so much about the filter

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

What's wrong with Halfords oil

SteveB

iTrader: (3)

Halfords own brand oil is actually Comma oil in the bottle.


If you look at the Sogefi filter version of the above filters it's slightly different due to the poop design of the 1.6tdci engine that shits turbos.

STEVEST24

Thanks for posting this, very interesting, I've usually gone genuine oil filters, but been canister type, as I noticed different sizes and even insides, from what I seen can look different, for same car, also friendly parts dept guys make price of manufacturer ones not too bad imo.

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

Bailes1992 - Why do you think there is something wrong with Mahle parts?

stevieturbo

You definitely wont find the same scenario across all brands and fitments, but people do obsess a bit about such things.

I'm sure there may be some "bad" filters out there, but they'd be few and far between. All the ones you bought are from fairly good reputable brands though, there's bound to be some cheap chinese ones out there too ?
They've copied everything else !

ajamesc

We had a funny break down at work because of cheap filters. It was a Daf 106 tractor unit. The genuine filter has a small point up in side it's body that pushes a little ball of its seat when the filter is in position. This ball being moved off its seat lets fuel flow through the filter. The company did a service on it then couldn't get it started it was towed into us with a fuel system fault with them saying it had a massive air lock and couldn't be bled. After messing about with it and coming to the conclusion fuel was not getting from the filter housing to the lift pump it was noticed it was the cheap filter lol

Fil

Whats the issues with this lump and its design? And are there any extra home prventitive measures you can take?

Bailes1992

There is a few design issues to be fair.
One thing you have to bare in mind these engines are quite highly strung. The turbos spin at 280,000rpm.

Main issue in my opinion is the oil capacity of 3.8 litres. I don't think I know of another diesel engine that takes such little oil. Ford use 12k/12month intervals and Citreon/Peugeot push the boat out to 20k/2years. However both are just too long with such a little oil capacity. The oil becomes saturated and starts to sludge. You have to consider as well these things have EGRs which fill the oil full of soot and abrasives and DPFs which no doubt means some diesel will end up in the sump.

Second issue is the sump plug which sits around 10mm above the bottom of the sump which means you can't get all the oil out. Also the drain hole is only an M10 thread.


There is also known issues with the oil pickup tube which can get blocked up and impede oil flow as a result of the above.

Lastly and probably the biggest and most common issue is turbo failure. In the oil supply line banjo bolt is a mesh filter. I suspect this filter was never designed to get dirty as it is post oil filter. However if the oil is completely saturated then it takes little more before it starts to sludge up and block the oil filter. Often turbos are replaced but this filter is forgotten about and 6 months later the turbo goes pop again. Generally though it's considered once the turbo goes pop the engine won't be in great condition and won't be far behind it.


Have a read of this. Shows just how badly these engines can sludge up.

For preventative measures? Well I've halved my oil change intervals and make sure you get the oil as hot as possible before draining. I changed my oil yesterday and I took the car out before hand and gave it some long full throttle slogs up a few hills nearby. The sump was 110°c before I dropped the oil.

Once out of warranty the EGR & DPF will be removed mine.

I also run mine on Shell V-Power NITRO+ which is a GTL fuel derived from natural gas. It burns much cleaner and without the carbon deposits, it also means my DPF goes an extra 300-400miles without regenerating.

I may look into a modified sump at some point. Maybe try to increase the capacity beyond 3.8 litres and to more like 5 litres and put the sump plug in a better place.

Bailes1992

As the post above I done my oil change yesterday.
Previously the engine was filled up with Millers Nanodrive 5w30 with a Ford specification. The oil had been in there for 6,000miles and just under 3 months.
The engine is a heck of a lot smoother with the new oil. I've used Millers Nanodrive oils in my Mondeo which made a huge difference to the feel of the engine. I really can only assume the oil was well past it in my Focus after 6,000miles.

I may look into getting the oil tested at the next interval to see exactly what is in it and what they would recommend in terms of intervals.

I must admit I thought the location of the oil filter was a bit stupid. Never before have I had to dismantle parts of a car to get to an oil filter.




The old oil filter did look pretty clean to be fair.



Also worth mentioning that all the filters that I pictured above were all made in Austria. So I'm totally convinced now they are all the same part.

burnzy

In my experience Mann filters are either OE or as close as, crossland are cheap and I won't use them again after I compared them to a Bosch pollen filter on my Audi, mahle have always been decent quality but haven't used anything of theirs for a long time, Bosch is always a trusted alternative and will only buy Bosch if Mann aren't an option.

studabear

Have they changed the design on this enine so you no longer have to unbolt the 2 boost pipe bolts?

burnzy

It's a shame it's a cartridge filter as the 1.8t suffered the same issue regarding low oil capacity and sludge problems and as it was a canister type filter, a larger replacement was found and it brought the capacity up to about 4.5 litres iirc.

Is there anywhere to install an after market oil cooler, this would increase capacity to help with sludge issues.

stevieturbo

Oil cooler may not help matters especially if the oil doesnt need cooled in the first place

Easiest solution is not to buy any vehicle using the shitty engine lol It's just a pity they're so widespread !

You'd think when other car companies look into an engine to use for their vehicles...they'd pick one that isnt a piece of shit !

burnzy

Haha! Very true, oil cooler was just turd polishing exercise, but that Aussie thread there was a post mentioning oil temps of 110*C iirc so probably wouldn't hurt, even if you put it somewhere that didn't have a full on cold air flow, you'd atleast increase the engines capacity.

Love the fact Peugeot have 20k servicing so basically anything after 100k is on borrowed time if it even manages it, bit like the sealed for life gearbox crap they push on us.

jamie's

They're in so many cars as well
Peugeot
Citroen
Ford
Volvo
Mini
Fiat
Thats just the 1's i've worked on, i bet theres planty more
They must be cheap for the manufacturors to buy in

stevieturbo

For the most part though they'll survive until the warranty period expires which is all they care about.

Really the EU should be stepping in and insisting a sensible life expectancy from an engine. There really is no reason most mundane engines shouldnt be able to do 250-300k before any major problems.

100k is nothing these days, anything big that fails prior to that just shows a major design flaw and not fit for purpose.

zsdom

I dont really obsess with OE for my cars, they're not special enough to warrant the cost difference.

One thing I am wary of though is mann filters, I did an oil & filter change when I bought my focus & found it was losing oil at a high rate, noticed some staining on the filter so whipped it off & the rubber ring at the top of the filter had seperated & the oil was weeping out at temp & under pressure.

Got a £3 jobbie from car spares & all good now

STEVEST24

Interesting extra info Bailes, thanks, we have a Peugeot Boxer (3rd gen) 2.2 diesel camper van, I knew about the Ford/Peugeot tie up, but the giveaway on ours is the FORD emblem on the oil filter housing!

I was surprised our Peugeot Boxer 2009 2.2 diesel is 2 yearly service intervals!, our previous Peugeot Boxer 2005 (2nd gen) also a 2.2 diesel sure that was 1 yearly service intervals.

First thing I did was do an oil and filter change on it even though dealer said they didn't do it cos it still had a year to run, yeh right! and I will be sticking to yearly oil changes at least regardless of mileage, we don't do that much, but like you I reckon regular is best.

You will be pleased to know our 2.2 diesel has the 'cartridge type' oil filter like yours, I wonder if the EuroCarparts one is same as Peugeot lol!

The Enigma

The 1.3 Fiat diesel has an oil capacity of 3.2 litres and 20k mile intervals if it's in the Vauxhall Combo!

Fil

not quoting it all, but great info

So everybody doable preventitive maintenance is,

more frequent oil changes, say 5k

change oil when hot

blank egr

And treat the turbo oil supply line banjo bolt as a service item. ( any online links to a replacement )



fingers crossed our 2007 1.6TDCi fusion should be good, as bought 2 years ago on 20k, and had 6/7 ford services, so 3-4k between oil changes, ive then serviced it at 30k and will be done over the next few weeks at 40k, but then will do oil and filter at every 5k from now on, as plan to keep the car for many years.

stevieturbo

And another example of an unreliable engine lol

ajamesc

We have all fiat work vans 4 little ones and 2 large DAF aid ones. We are a fiat agent are work shop don't do vans as a rule but we do look after a few. The small vans are workshop run abouts and curiosity vehicles. I can honestly say none have ever gone wrong

stevieturbo

I know of a few here with rods out the side of the block, and others that have had timing chain failure.

ajamesc

Are ones are all on around the 50ish thousand mile mark now and the daf aid van around 70. None have had any issues yet. Not sure what mileage you have seen issues at but for me with what I have to go on there good vans