abdr500

iTrader: (1)

how spot on is engine advantges rolling roads as my car was ther 2 month ago and made 354 bhp and it was ther last year and it made 354 to it was spot on but went in to prism motorsport rolling road and my car made280 who do i belive

JAP CRAP

sounds about right.

need to take my car there, would deffo be 500bhp

Spadges car made 485bhp on greys when the limit on greys is 440bhp max

what spec is your car???

GARETH T

are both figures flywheel figures?

have you got a binding brake?

Ish

was the power run done in 3rd or 4th gear at EA?

GARETH T

ish that shouldnt matter at all if the machine is setup right

Ish

how come some people say there's was ran in 3rd at ea and some say 4th

why is it done that way?

GARETH T

i dont know mate,,,, if the car had traction,, you could run a car up in first

big_wig_074

to get the most accurate power at flywheel measurement i beleive is the reason for 3rd or 4th gear runs

Ish

i always thought they had to be run in 4th on the rollers as this is the gear that is closest to 1:1

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

it was run in 4th gear he done 4 runs and it was fly wheel power iam running greens 4x4 cooler t34 turbo full stainlees exshust 004 fuel pump 3 bar map motorsport leads and plugs chip ap racing clutch group a head gasket full engine rebuild group a coil runnig 21 psi 1.5 bar holding 1.4 its a stage 3 conversion should 330 bhp conversion but it made 354 ant EA and was over the mooon but whent to prism motor sport that has just had a rolling road fitted so may be its that i dont now but he did say every one wasnt happy when they came for a powere run ther after coming from power engnering to his place so surely his machine is worng

mrviper

alot of tuners have ego boosting rolling roads to make people feel better

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

but the conversion should see 330 bhp easly but i have lost 74 bhp the guy did say my leads a braking down but that wont let me lose 74 bhp

rapidcossie

that spec wont get you 330 bhp.....prob closer to 300.
so if your leads are breaking down losing 20 bhp sounds right.

MadMac

Best dynos I have ever seen are the chassis dynos. You take the front wheels off, bolt and adaptor plate in place and hook the hubs upto a dyno.

Get no loss through using traditional rollers and are so accurate they can show the power drop from an engine when you turn the headlamps on.

I just wish I knew a place that had one other than my old college.

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

rapidcossie, but thats the normal package deal you get on a stage 3 saff green 3 bar chip t34 ect ect and have seen lots off cossy get 330+ bhp ive put my car up with other cars runnig 345 bhp and have hade no problem pulling away a littel bit

simonc

Mine made 365bhp on greens at EA & my friends made 378bhp still on greens at EA, don't really care if its right or wrong because it drives & pulls well

Simon.

900ss

My ol stg 3 cossie made 284 @ the wheels at G-Force R/R
I believe them

SPADGE

Subtract approx 10% from figures from EA's rolling road as this is approx what they for whatever reason over read!

pugo

mine made 374.9 at EA, it has been on 2 other r/roads and was within 5 bhp either way (its on greys)

its a a bit more than stge 3 and if anything was lower than expected

Paul ran it in 4th and he got me about 25 bhp from fettling with the map

bottom line is , it doesn't matter what bhp it makes...its all bollox anyway, a rolling road is just a tool to aid setting up and/or modification proving, it gives you a base figure that you can work from..........its like stu from msd doesn't use a rolling road, he does his on the road using the seat of his pants/feel to know when its running right, i bet you can never pin him down to guess a bhp figure either!! and that will be for the simple fact the next rolling road you go on if it is 50 bhp down from what he quoted, you would say either he or the r/road is wrong
It does not matter if it makes a zillion fookin horsepower, its how it goes when your driving it.!
I run my inlet cam quite early so it gives me an on off switch power delivery at about 4500rpm and it feels lightening quick, some others run there cams late so the power comes in smoother and later, neither is making more power but i bet you would say mine is quicker/more horsepower (albeit a fooker to drive) but i would get my arse whooped on a trackday if i left it the way it is
Stop worrying about figures on paper and get the car set up to your wants
People get caught up in this must have xxxbhp crap........300 hp in a 20 year old road car is loads mate......most people do not have the ability to use 300bhp to its full potential anyway..........!
if you use a tuner and are happy with his work, forget about bhp figures , just look at the increases they are giving you, if you go in and it makes 380bhp on his road and by the time it comes out makes 450bhp..........just remember he has given you a 70hp increase and not a 450bhp engine...and be happy with it

Pugo

Steven_RW

"a rolling road is just a tool to aid setting up and/or modification proving, it gives you a base figure that you can work from."

fair play

RW

GARETH T

thats a hud dyno,,, a chassis dyno is what we all call rolling road


they can be accurate aswell aslong as they are setup right

foreigneRS

i don't think so he uses a lot of (expensive) diagnostic equipment, some of which tells him that the combustion has been optimised as well as can be, and some of which (an accelerometer) can be used to check that the acceleration has been optimised as best as possible.

the accelerometer is as good as any dyno at telling you if you have gained power (or torque actually), as long as it's used under the same conditions (same piece of road, same wind direction, same vehicle weight, same ambient temperature, same tyre pressure etc, etc.)

as gareth is telling you, a rolling road can be accurate at measuring torque at the wheels, and both readings that you have could be correct (if yoyu take the at wheel torque figure that they should've given you). it could be something as simple as the airflow thru your i/c was not sufficient at prism, giving a high ACT which will give lower power. without comparing like for like, with all the parameters involved, you cannot say if one is right or wrong.

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

i would like to say to every one that has replyed on her a very big thanks to all . i will forget about bhp and numbers but i have a problem with my car .. her goes i put my foot down and the turbo spools up very nice and when iam flat out it seems to tug in and and feel slugish but you just here it like as if it just whants to burts in to revs but it dont was told that my leads have to much resistance and are showing fault on the rolling road. ther the 909 motor sport leads ther no good but can that cause it to feel slow. it boost up 1.5 bar holds 1.4 so boost looks ok but it sound like it being strungeld thats what it sounds like so please help me out

pugo

as in the uk the weather varies and conditions change, i still stand by my comment that he uses feel and years of experiance to know exactly what it should be doing and that would be the reason people use a proffesional mapper/tuner..cause he knows what he is doing
I watched a webber carb specialist set up a pair of 45's once (after a crypton tuner had got his hands on them) the tuner said he never trusted a meter he just listened to the engine.............and fook me the car flew afterwards

Pugo

as for accuracy on rolling roads, there are so many variables, i find it difficult to believe that going from one to another you will get the same readings.........

Pugo

pugo

dude, how do i say this politly.....................i haven't got a scooby to what your trying to say

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

pugo, i dont get it

pugo

you tried to explain the symptoms and i have no idea/cannot understand what yor trying to say

Billabong

scooby doo = clue

like as if it just whants to burts in to revs but i dont
=
like as if it just wants to burst into rev's but it doesn't ??

pugo

cheers billabong

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

Billabong, yep thats the one so come some one got to no some thing about my problem

pugo

well for a start, if you know your leads are fooked.........put some new ones on it

Billabong

Had something similar on my old Sapph' - It felt 'strangled' at certain rev's - it was a plug lead breaking down - replaced leads, job sorted.

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

right ive orderd my leads will have to wait and see if your right iam gona send some money to you so keep a look out on this post thanks

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

went back to the rolling road were i hade my car on a powere run only to find that ther machine was out by 30 bhp so iam happy agine but i still have a holding back problem

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You're still kidding yourself if you think that you have 354bhp @ 21psi .

330bhp is a fair guestimate and ONLY if the car is running correctly .

ian rst

When i went to ea i had 338 at 24psi. (esc cos)I am happy pulls well if it is only just over 300 i would still be happy.

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

Billabong, ive changed leads its still the same any other clues m8

Billabong

abdr500, it could be a number of things, and I bet when you discover what it is it'll suddenly seem simple - it always does, but I'd hate to leave a list and you replace the items and it still not be right

Some tuner advice/diagnosis (hard with something like this though over the internet, if you can I'd recommend taking it somewhere) could save you money in the long run, with most of the sensors on a cossie engine costing 20-25 a pop, it could soon add up.

Sorry the leads didn't fix the issue, but that's what it was on my old Sapph - verified on a RR with Crypton tuner attached to the leads, which I'd hope is how the RR you used diagnosed the leads as breaking down.

Does the car do it at any particular rev's or are there any other symptoms at all, smoke, rev counter bouncing around etc??

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

all it does is feel like as if i am down on boost by alot but my gauge says iam alright its like runnig std boost on a stage 3 sapp but boost is not down it goes to pull well and it does for about a second and then just feels flat dying not going fast up into the rev range but gets to 7 000 rpm eventually but no sighn off smoke at all the car feels like ther obstruction and goes into retard mode iam thinking igntion problem

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Sounds you have a loose keyway and it's allowing the cam timing to swing, which would explain why it feels as flat as a fart. This is quite serious and needs to be sorted sooner rather than later. You need to take it somewhere that knows Cossies inside out (such as Harvey at SCS 01733 576 614) for a proper diagnosis though.