Doodah

Hi all I'm getting all ready to do a 1.8 silvertop conversion on my Mk4 Escort & was just wondering about using the 1.7 engine from a Puma. I know it's a popular conversion on the Fiesta Zetec-S, is this because it has VVT? Actually, not knowing much about these things, I have to ask - does it even have VVT?!?

If so I'd be interested to know if anyone has put this engine into a Mk4. I know nothing about how VVT works, only what it does, and that it's nice

Is it an electrical/electronic or mechanical system, ie can it be as simple to fit this engine as the Zetec & run it on carbs? Is it worth paying the extra (I'm sure it'll be harder to get hold of one) and would it be that much, or any, quicker than a 1.8 Zetec running 2.0 cams?

Thanks

Dal_

iTrader: (2)

Variable Cam Timing yes. Toyota's have VVT.

It runs of varying the oil pressure in a chamber to advance or retard the cam. It does this with a solenoid operated electronically so will need a VCT operational ECU to work correctly.

Doesn't do that much tbh..

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

Nope pain in the arse. Nope not worth it. Nope it won't be quicker.

BM08

I know a work mate who's had 3 pumas, all had engine/running problems

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Your 'mate' had shitters then, the Zetec SE's are very good if looked after.

Straight_4_N/a

zetec-se are weak and make poor torque compaired to zetec-es.

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

Lets all refer to them by the proper names else this could get confusing the 'zetec e' is a zeta. The 'Zetec se' is a sigma. Other wise one 's' will be missed somewhere and all hell will break loose

Straight_4_N/a

Two of my cars have VVT and VVT-I and its a load of shit!
its fitted so you get better emissions and more mpg at normal revs which it slows the car down unless you drive the car around at 5,000rpm+ all the time.

Straight_4_N/a

Ok then but thats gonna cock alot up lol.
Zeta/Zetec-E
Zetec-E II
Zetec-R
Zetec-R ST/Duratec ST
Zetec-R RS/Duratec RS
Thats the zetecs names lol.

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

Regardless of personal preference the facts are that the sigma is primarily emissions based, extremely oil critical, engineered to cost Ł2.50 rather than to last, it's disposable and there's no scope to rebuild it. You gotta throw it away and buy another 2nd hand unit which may or may not last longer the a businessman in Bangkok

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

I said proper names, not marketing names

Still just zeta and sigma

Doodah

my question answered think I'll stick with the 1.8 lol

Ta

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Quite a bit to do with capacity there...

The 1.7 is 157nm, and a 2.0 Zetec E is 183nm, not a massive difference, considering the smaller capacity, the 1.7 is also lighter and produces almost as much power. The Zetec se's, sorry, Sigmas, were also purposefully restricted by Ford, to keep insurance costs down, this is why on a 1.6 100bhp Sigma you can get around 150bhp with just an exhaust, cam and map. They're hardly 'weak' compared to other Ford engines. The only people I've ever heard slate them are those with no experience, and those who have only ever had poorly maintained shitters. Oh and those that were surprised they weren't as fast as their turbo'd cars.

I wouldn't fit one in a mk4 Escort due to the extra work, and the fact I'd turbo a 2.0 instead.

Straight_4_N/a

1.7 123bhp 157nm stock
1.7 150bhp 158nm racing puma (not 100% on the numbers but you get the idea)

even you must admit that for cams inlet exhaust and a remap making no change to the torque is pritty shity lol
and didnt both performance and fast ford both call them GUTLESS engines lol.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

The FRP is actually 162nm. They were designed to be revvy little n/a's fitted into hatchbacks, not for towing horse boxes. Put a standard 1.7 lump in a mk5 Fiesta, and a standard 2.0 into another mk5, they'll be almost identical in terms of acceleration, if not the 1.7 a bit quicker.
Firstly Fast Ford have praised the Sigma engines, and even did loads of features on their 1.7 engined Fiesta, including a 'how to' of fitting one, secondly what bearing does it have if a magazine called something gutless? I could call an ls1 gutless, doesn't mean it's true.

Edit-could we have derailed this topic any more?

derwynr

I've got a mk3 with a sigma in there and its an absolute gem. defo the way to go. forget about the old zetec is my recommendation!
not so hard to do.
A few things I had to do was to mate the bellhousing from the sigma to your mk4 box and that side of the mountings are then sorted. you then need to weld a support for the driver side engine mount and that's about it! My engine is standard running on emerald ECU and better exhaust manifold and

lacey

My 1.7 puma engine in my Zetec s has just done 170k and still pulls well , people are forgetting you don't need as much torque when your not as heavy , and the puma lump is so light and small compared to the old Zetec e cast iron engines

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

Mk3 fiesta or escort?

derwynr

sorry, that's an escort

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

Impressive, always wondered if it could be done. Any pics?

It's Czech Mate

Sigma is fantastic, there's a reason Caterham and westys come with them, light, torquey and easy to sell in various states of tune

I'd like to see a boat anchor 1.8 or 2.0 zetec-e do 150 bhp with cams and a map. Zetec-e are great for turboing don't get me wrong, but take a lot more tuning to get the numbers out of, been there and done it.

The st170 isn't a bad shout as a stock though

It's Czech Mate

The 1.8/2.0 make more torque purely due to capacity

1.6 sigma vs 1.6 zetec e will show you which is the best engine

The 1.6 zetec-e is fucking shit

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

RS2000 I4 - 150bhp/150odd lb/ft - winning

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

2.0 duratec ain't much better

Everyone knows it's cvh or go home

derwynr

here's a pic of the se dummy engine.

derwynr

anyone else done this conversion yet?

Zetec_mk4_XR3i

Nice to see something different!

I've had a couple of cheap 1700 Puma's and think they are great engines, I'd imagine a decent exhaust, filter and chip would make them even better!

st220kyle

How does the st170 engine compare against the two engines mentioned by the OP?

lacey

It's a black top Zetec so its like if not the same as one ( Zetec e)

st220kyle

Then surely that's the one to have?? With the 40 odd BHP, or is there a downside?

lacey

Still heavy in comparison to the se ( puma )

disco-stu

I had three mk5 fiestas which all had the zetec se engine with no more than an exhaust and a filter. Now I have a mk6 escort 1.8 zetec e so much slower than my old zs

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i'd just go with a blacktop 2.0 zetec, slap some cams and boddies on there, bit of head work won't go a miss and you'll start heading towards 180-190bhp.

liam-rst

iTrader: (1)

Imo as xr2wishy says, 2.0 blacktop, the sigma ain't a bad engine but as previously mentioned they are a disposable engine so when it inevitably breaks its an engine out and replacement jobbie

lacey

My friend had a Anglia with a Zetec se 1.6 in it , it didn't have a massive amount done but it was still ment to be around the 180hp mark ,
I have a 1.7 in a Zetec s that have just done 170k and still pulls well , and I will be removing this engine soon and rebuilding it and putting a turbo on it and then put it in a light weight 3dr sierra

preedyfella

Will keep you posted as Im starting my 1.7 puma engine conversion on 1.4 focus.

Now I know I know your all going to say a 2ltr or ST/RS would be easier but as anyone done this conversion before?

Also the puma came to me for free

And the focus was something i started about 12 mouths ago but put on hold to finish my mk1 escort anyway the spec's of the puma aren't bad

LMS180 spec inlet
Inlet fitting kit
LMS stage two fully ported head
LM3 cams
Compression ratio raised to 10.9.1
Modified pocket Standard Pistons
LMS spec up-rated valve springs
Heavy Duty Rod Bolts
Panel filter
Power boost valve
Modified Induction System
Silicon Induction pipe
330cc Injectors
Vernier exhaust pulley
58mm knife edged throttle body

Again it down to the wiring but I was told the puma loom should plug it to the focus fusebox but i'll most likely end up re-wiring the whole car