Iv read a few articles on the above cooling methods all of which seem confusing which is best interms of performance an value for money. I dont really need it too get more power but i like to have some control over the charge temp for reliability reasons.

An air-water chargecooler seems a bit expensive, air -air intercooler is my preffered choice but being limited on space i dont want to chop up the bumper an finally is water injection i seen kits on ebay for around £200. Like i said my priority is to control the intake/charge temp for long periods at a time comfortably.

Are there any companies around the south east or london that can supply an fit a custom intercooler with new boost pipes? What sort of prices am i looking at fitted? Ideally im after the cheapest option!


Thanks

 

Pro-alloy do a super duper air to air that works a treat on Fiestas .

I good air to air should be your preferred choice. Water injection should only be used to supplement an air to air intercooler once you have reached a point where you physically can't fit a better intercooler (through packaging issues). ALWAYS fit the biggest / best intercooler you can physically get in the space as a first choice, then only if necessary supplement this with WI.

Charge-cooling is not very good for high power applications, as it is very diificult to remove the heat out of the water quickly.

 

Thanks, i think your right about the water injection, however Pro-Alloy seems to be quite far away, surely there must be someone in London/Essex/M25 who can do me a custom one?

 

Dan@Rapidford does Radtech stuff, very reasonably priced as well. He is based in North London. HTH

 

If you want the best custom item with the best cores, then yo have no choice. You might find somewhere more convenient, but at what price for a compromise in quality ?

You should always fit the best you can for the job - a GOOD intercooler can mean the difference between not having to run WI and HAVING to .

 

imo a combination of water/air 'chargecooler' and air/air intercooler is best for the road.

 

If running high boost I would say water injection.
Only because you keep the charge temps low (like an intercooler) and you also get some extra protection against detonation (unlike an intercooler).
Plus WI costs much less than a good (large!!) intercooler.

I am going running both on my car (when i finish it), but that is only because I need it to show my WI kits rather than needing it. I only will run 10psi boost on an 8.5 : 1 comp ratio, so a good intercooler is all I really need.


Darren

 

If you are using WI as way of removing det, then this is a flawed system asking for the worse thing to happen (which with engines, it usually does ). This is because if used as a form of det protection, the engine dies if you run out of water / jet gets blocked (which they do frequently do ) .

IMO WI should only really be used as a supplementary system to a good intercooler, which only comes into play to prevent ACTs reaching a level that the igntion is retarded and thus looses you power. This means that the WI is just keeping the power at a constant level what-ever the ambient temps - it's not giving you any extra, it is just stopping you from losing what you have. Then if the WI does fail, all that happens is the ECU goes into retard mode, and you lose a bit of power NOT the engine .

A good intercooler is all you EVER need (unless packaging dictates otherwise ).

Don't forget that injecting water into the engine LOSES you power, just not as much as you would loose from the ignition retard .

 

agree with mike,,, intercooler for me

another true comment

 

Sorry i should make myself clear.
With water injection you get some detonation protection, I would never reccomend WI intsead of being sensible boost wise. With an intercooler there is no boost protection other than running lower charge temps.
Water injection slows the rate of burn inside of the cylinder so yes from that point you will lose power. However i think you also make a gain due to the water turning into super heated steam, making a slighly more efficient heat engine. Also you can run more advance to compensate, for this slower more predictable burn.

Thanks
Darren

 

just have it mapped right with a nice intercooler,,, no det,,,, nothing taking up space in your combustion chamber

 

I would NEVER run a road engine like this for the reasons I posted above .

WI does NOT give boost protection, the correct fuel and ignition to suit the air flow SHOULD do that .

The simple fact remains that injecting water into the engine means that you are using it as a "band aid" rather than fixing the route cause of the problem. WI is a flawed concept and should only be used if all other avenues have been exhausted (in a road car). It should never be used as a form of det protection . Not unless you can afford to lose an engine should it fail .

I run WI in my own car (I have fitted the biggest intercooler I can physically get in the space), but it is set up how I stated and ONLY activates if the ACTs exceed a certain temp and just means that I have most of the power that I have in ideal conditions there all the time. If the WI fails / runs out, then the ECU just retards the ignition and I lose some power.

 

FiestaZetec, i was after a bit more info on your car on an earlier thread but you never replied. Where was it mapped fella and what management are you using and how have you allowed the 1.6SE to withstand a bit of boost? Pistons/Rods?

Cheers

 

 

Sounds promising, do you have any contact details for them?

 

Spot on advice from Mr Rainbum I've done exactly the same

 

I live in Essex, its a very easy and quick journey down to Proalloy! You can do it in 45 mins!!!!

 

Water injection option is out the window now, i will never run more than 1bar of boost, i dont have a denotation problem an if it did occur the knock sensor would pick it up an retard things automatically i hope!

I should clear up that i want some cooling method for reliability reason not so i can squeeze every last bhp, therefore im looking for a cheap solution. Someone told me that an RS500 one would fit but thats going too far i think for a fiesta, the lag would be a nightmare!

An air-air intercooler seems to be my best option from what you all suggested. Is there anywhere i can see the difference between different makes? i guess some cool better than others?

On another note why are intercoolers so expensive, if the main intercooler part costs £300 why do kits with 2 pipes an couple of hoses justify doubling the price?

 

what about a chrage cooler then.

It will have less volume than an intercooler and so will reduce lag!

Darren

 

they all seem to be well out of my price range

 

Not if you don`t mind getting your hands dirty.
A suitable core from pace starts from £55. Get an enginering firm to weld suitable aluminium sections over it.

Thants what i want to do, Run a small charge cooler, intercooler and WI.

Best of all worlds!

 

The cheapest core that pace sells is £55+ vat... this is also the smallest-not at all suitable!

making charge coolers is not as simple as that!!

 

Our kit is £380....... apart from the intercooler you get a spal high performance fan kit, alloy pipes, silicon elbows, brackets, clips nuts bolts....

 

Going to help me out?

 

Pro Alloy Motorsport have you guys made one for a mk5 fiesta before i assume £380 is for the older fiesta rs turbo's? Still i think thats pretty good value for money as a kit, i guess fitting is charged on top?

 

There is a good website that shows how to make an intercooler, obviously a charge cooler requires water header tanks.

I`ll get the link.

Darren

 

FiestaZetec, yes.. the kit is for the FRST.
As you said in your earlier post- you can fit an rs 500 style intercooler in (we did on steve scotts) but it probably would be a little large.Best thing would be to cruize up sometime and let us have a look.
we are 20 mins from cambridge.
Fitting would be extra.

kindest regards
wayne

 

Here it is:

http://www.sdsefi.com/techcooler.htm

It is not hard at all

Thanks
Darren

 

You make it sound so easy!!!
A good chargecooler requires at least 3 x 4 row cores welded together in such a way that the water passes through each core in series.
The water needs to travel in the opposite direction to the air.
air flow rates need to be correct..
Having the core too dense will restrict the air flow and you will loose boost / power.
Not enough density and you will not transfer the heat energy into the water system
water flow rates are also just as important as is water capacity and the size of the pre-rad which cools the water.
All this has to be done whilst still keeping the design as strong as possible- if this thing leaks then the water goes straight into the engine
pump failiures are also an issue to consider- do not scrimp on pump spec.... if this stops you have no cooling..................

I would go with air to air intercooling every time.

 

Hellooooooooooooooo

 

MattRS1600i chill out! i replied already on the other thread

"To answer your original question the bottom end had been strengthed with a set of custom Mahle low compression pistons taking the c/r down to 8.6:1, also bought a set of crower con-rods again had to be custom made, arp bolts, the head has been uprated with stronger valves, valve guides, springs, high quality gaskets basically helps keep things reliable. "

Like i said before a few friends an family helping me do the work, the mapping is done by a mate of my cousin, his no pro but seems to be quite clued up an willing to give things a go. Once its all back up an running i will certainly go to a real company an get it mapped professionally but his done a good job so far.

 

Thanks for the offer, if i was nearer i would visit but a round trip is likely to cost me atleast a tank of petrol, which is why i was hoping to get a better idea from being online to make things a bit more productive. Im most interested in what you can offer and im confident from what i have already seen an heard about you guys.

 

Sweet, thanks. What management you running?

 

Pectel T2

 

Cheers matey