Evening-

Why would you use a -31 actuator if you where running 25psi on manual boost control?

As-

1/ -31 lift pressure of 8 psi

2/I am using norgen presure reg (07-100-rnea)5-50psi self relieving unit(obviously can fool wastegate into thinking less pressure is received- but why would you what to use a -31 as it will start to lift @ 8psi, therefore increasing creep anyway?)

3/boost creep would be evident @ max 5 psi-31 Act


James (Motorsport D)?

I recently purchased and received a -31 actuator from you after your input-thoughts as a recomended unit for my system.(Thank you for quick delivery)
I might be missing something, or you failed to ask all relevent question pertaining to my set-up?


But why would you run a -31 actuator in favor of a -34?

My Best. Tim Bliss.


Please advise?

 

Anyone? T

 

We only really use the -34 on small exhaust housings where the exhaust pressure can push the gate open,

Larger exhaust housings just don't really need them.

We generally use the -31s unless we have a reason not too. Most of our packages use the -31s even at over 32psi.

You are forgetting pre load in your system.

4mm of preload on a -31 with a good boost control set up will be all most ever need.

Infact my T4 car was running 44psi on a -31, it really doesn't relate that much at all to what boost you can run.

Running a very strong spring under heavy pre load by trying not to bleed much air off the control line like it sounds you want to do can damage the waste gate arm and seat.

 

Thanks Jame , as I suspected.

I have a T34 -48 turbonectics Comp -minor 2.122/major 3 inch-Turbine-minor 2.126/major-2.555 .
This is slightly bigger than your Garret T34, I would imagine that having a .48 turbine housing =small housing?
Why did you recommend a -31? or were the right question's not asked?


My Best.

Tim Bliss

 

Because that's what I would recommend is used.

 

James ,note manual boost control via reg(as above)this system will always charge wastegate line and as a result promoted creep. Why -31?


Thank you for your time.

My Best, Tim.

 

James, no amal valve . manual boost control. Cheers... T

 

Any form of bleed off boost control no matter what it is, will only ever work by bleeding air off the control line. If the waste gate actuator doesn't see the pressure it requires to open, then it will stay shut. It's that simple in most cases.

If you or your tuner want to use a stronger spring then feel free to ask for one, but I personally would be using a -31 to achieve your target boost pressure. There is no real need for anything stronger.

Going back to your power graph thread, the other graph that was posted matts 3dr was live mapped by us on a -31 at over 36 psi on a T34.48, and makes massive boost by 3krpm. It doesn't need a stronger spring.

If your boost control system does not.operate correctly then I would personally be looking to change that rather than an actuator that we know works perfectly at these operating pressures.

 

Thanks James, Rs Matt quotes using a -34 actuator and my regulator is not a bleed valve.

Will contact Norgen company for data sheet on their 07-100RNEA regulator, I'm sure I will get to the bottom of this.
Pardon my lack of knowledge if that is what it is.


My Best, Tim.

 

I'm sure it was a-31, maybe we swapped it in the end,
my old saff was on the same package at 36psi on a T34.48 and I ran a -31 on that with no problems at all.

Don't get me wrong you can use a -34 but its not at all common that its needed, especially to reach 25-26psi of boost

A -31 and one of these http://shop.motorsport-developments....alve-294-p.asp is ample of over 32psi
We do loads of them and they just work.

 

James , Its how you get there that counts! Do you want to buy a -31 actuator?


My Best. Tim

 

I can't imagine you would have enough exhaust housing pressure to cause issues with a correctly loaded -31 at 25psi of boost. All our stage 1,2 and 3 packages from 14 to 32 psi all use -31s

If your gate is not closed then I would expect you to have a boost control problem not an actuator problem.

I've got loads of -31s

 

Cheers James, not an issue re -gate as was flap-gate on a .63 no cracks either. have changed turbine housing Garrat where this issue might arise!
Getting her mapped next Thursday , will post.
I was reading a post from your coleauge(Stu) re actuators which confirms my belief re control when there is none(Use a -34 as anything above 15psi is useless on a -31) .
Why would you have to bleed off more than ness to achieve zero!
Make's sense to me, will find it and referance it.
Not tonight thought tired!

Thank you for your help, Cheers, Tim.

 

Morning all,

Jame's motorsports D please look at post "Actuator Choice" Where Stu (MD) puts it quite clearly.



Thanks for your help with this.


Tim.

 

You do have boost control dont you?

No boost control is a solid pipe from compressor to actuator, so the actuator will see full compressor pressure.

The aim of any boost control is to calibrate the amount of pressure pumped to the wastegate actuator, to open it when necessery.
If you have no boost control, then to run 25psi you will need a strong spring, but i dont really see any benifit from that, and as i said you are always more than welcome to ask for a -34 if you require one.

If you havent used it we can easily swap it for you but you simply asked me what i would recomend, and that is a-31, ive never had any reason to use otherwise to make 25psi


Heres One good example of a bad point about running a really strong spring,
If you are running say a 14psi spring when pre loaded, or even higher if you have no boost control, when it comes to mapping how are you going to reach the low boost areas under that? The minimum boost your actuator will run is 14psi so how are you going to map 6k rpm at 10psi? you end up with lots of area of the map you will really struggle to reach and this can be dangerous for various reasons, What if one day you develop an air leak and do manage to reach these low boost areas that have not been correctly mapped?
The softer the spring you can get away with using the more boost control you will ultimatley have.

Also for those running aftermarket electctronic boost control its nice to be able to turn the boost right down, with a strong actuator spring you can never run a boost pressure lower than the actuator spring pressure, so in this instance its nice to run a softer spring you then have so much more controlability of your boost pressure.

 

Sounds like the confusion here may be related to your "Pressure Reg" which you have yourself called "manual boost control"

Can you elaborate on what exactly it is your using, as its not something we use over here in the UK. I have a suspicion it may be a pressure release valve that slows down initial opening as opposed to a bleed off device.

 

Hi

James Very interesting point re mapping lower boost area's and i see the benifits of not having such a strong spring re stresses etc as I have been using a footpump to activate my -34(4mm preload) and once presure is released the force @ which the wastegate snap shut is incredible! (Can't be that good for the wastegate of it's arm)
Stu the info on my Regulator is in pdf format and for some reason I cannot attach, But if you plug the following into Google it will come straight up-

Norgen-R07-100RNEA pressure regulators


I do not really want to spend money on a new manual boost control item if not nes, but at the same time if the above is not up to the job at hand I suppose I will buy the one you/James have recomended.


Thanks for your help .

My Best, Tim.

 

I'm quite sure I should not do this but the regulator you are using is here:
http://store.norgren.com/us/en/detai...ure-regulators

and this has nothing to do with automotive application....
under the technical details it states you have to have a positive line pressure up to 20 bar and then the regulator will relieve.

My opition is you should just keep the standard amal valve instead of this

 

Evening all,

I don't think that just because something is not rated in a certain industry holds water as a reason not to use.
Although saying that there are a hell of a lot of shoddy Marine item's I would nt use in better so called rated envioment.
I think that the issue at hand may have alot to do with regulation (Stu) as the reg I am using may indeed not be accurate enough to deliver a specific amount of pressure output at varing inlet pressures.
But as I see it, please correct me if I am wrong-When using manual boost control ,Bear with me as we all know there are various types on the market that achieve this and the ones I am aware of are as follows- (Please note that no other control re-amal etc is taken into account)

1/Bleed off type- Bleeding off a certain amount of wategate line charge to atmos-line always charged.

2/Pressure regulator type -No air in wastegate line is bleed off only reduced to a preset limit -Wastegate line always charged .

3/Dawes ball-spring type -No charge in wastegate line until a preset limit.

If a person was looking for minimal spooling time on the above boost control system's I would have thought that you would opt for the system that does not waste vauable wastegate charge and again correct me if I am wrong ,I think this would rule out 1/bleed of type as by it's very nature it is bleeding off charge.
I can see that the Dawes ball-spring type would do this but at the same time your boost would be on or off. So this system would give you lowest spool-up but would be very aggressive and as a result it would not matter what actuator you where using at 25psi as the result would be the same -on or off.
So this leads me to a well rated (ranged operated reduction pressures) pressure regulator which will always charge the wastegate line giving you the boost you require.
Would I be right in saying that the only way to control creep with -1/Bleed off system- 2/Pressure reg system would be to increase spring tension? ie go for a -34 actuator over a -31 @ 25psi?
My understanding of the 1/bleed off system -2/Pressure reg system is that they will allow you to control ,as best is possible the way boost curve comes in based on actuator choice as wastegate signal lines are always charged.
Your thoughts?

Thanks for everyone's help-input. It's great to have a knowledge base like Passion ford.

My Best, Tim.

 

It has just occured to me that my Pressure reg must have been modified as it to is a regulator so if it was set to 25psi it would still charge wastegate signal line below that pressure and as a result it would activate wastegate prematurly.
So I guess this would be classed as a non-bleeding flow-rate valve.

Thanks again.

My Best, Tim.

 

May be totally irrelevant to this thread but when I swapped from 31 to a 34 I found my car to be more aggressive when it came on boost.I bought it by mistake tbh.It wasnt untill I tool my 31 off as I realised as it was that.Someone I nearly said Tony wanted about 70 for a used 31 so I got a b/new rebuild able collins 34 for about Ł60.My 2p worth

 

If you have found the -34 to be more aggressive it begs the question to properties of the springs themself, by this I mean rated tension vs depression of each.
Don 't know enough about them though, just a thought.

My Best, Tim.

 

I still have different springs only to differ them by different paint.The problem probably lies with me stretching things before I fit them on purpose same as dumbo valve I wouldnt advise anyone to do this but hey ho.