Why build 500+ bhp cossies?
18-02-2013, 10:54 PM
#81
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lol 2 genuine cars one running 350 hp the other running 500 hp assumeing they are running the power they say they are and built and specced properly once your on boost as long as it stays in boost the 350 hp engine isnt gonna win unless its gonna defy the laws of physics 
fpmsl
i own a 450 hp r32 and a 660 hp r33 and 0 - 100 mph r32 is 10 seconds, r33 is 8 seconds so far, once its on boost the r33 WILL destroy the r32 no question.
fpmsli own a 450 hp r32 and a 660 hp r33 and 0 - 100 mph r32 is 10 seconds, r33 is 8 seconds so far, once its on boost the r33 WILL destroy the r32 no question.
18-02-2013, 10:56 PM
#82
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having driven a few of both, i realy do think its 100% down to the spec of the 517bhp engine
old school low comp, t4, 8 greens, bd14's etc?
as much fun as these are they dont seem to pull as hard(on the road anyhow) as a more modern set up
i.e high(er) comp, siemens etc, gtx30(or bw) etc etc
if you drove a car with both these engines mapped to the exact same power/torque level
i bet you would think the modern spec was miles faster(again on the road)
so its realy down to the spec in my opinion
but for a fast road car you cant beat a 380ish bhp t34.63, siemns 55's abo7, standard comp etc
makes a realy nice useable road car
old school low comp, t4, 8 greens, bd14's etc?
as much fun as these are they dont seem to pull as hard(on the road anyhow) as a more modern set up
i.e high(er) comp, siemens etc, gtx30(or bw) etc etc
if you drove a car with both these engines mapped to the exact same power/torque level
i bet you would think the modern spec was miles faster(again on the road)
so its realy down to the spec in my opinion
but for a fast road car you cant beat a 380ish bhp t34.63, siemns 55's abo7, standard comp etc
makes a realy nice useable road car
19-02-2013, 06:56 AM
#84
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does your skyline have lag bud? i met a guy at a shell petrol station r33 running 430bhp he said.. had a chat and then we both drove out together..at one point i was teasing him ..he gave in and put hes foot down..hes car was LAG LAG and then BANG it came on boost i saw it BEHIND me lol.. then we both came side by side on to a long dual carriage and gave them death..it was quick but not quick enough.. HOWEVER i seen one running 550bhp and THAT was a absoulte monster on boost but again had lag
my r33 is less responsive low down obviously but it still manages 0 - 100 in 8 seconds on a far from perfect launch and beyond 100 mph its no contest at all.
if you want no lag get a big engine car like my 5.5cckit car it is instant throttle response which you simply will not get from a small cc engine thats turboed.
my kit car is 300 hp 360 lbft non turbo 830 kgs without driver and throttle response is instant just nail it anywhere in any gear and its off.
19-02-2013, 07:17 AM
#85
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I don't get how your saying that he had more power but was slower? The only thing I didn't get when my mate took me out in his 480bhp saph it was RWD every time he booted it he had to back of and feather the throttle, soon as we picked up speed he backed off as he was scared. Which I would of been to, it did feel really twitchy. He was a good driver too just a bit careful.
19-02-2013, 07:36 AM
#86
some very interesting points on the thread.. so what would happen if a 500bhp saff cosworth was on the street and it happened to come accross a 400bhp t34.48 saff at 2bar side by side at 40mph..both floor it at same time? what would happen ? Here is another interesting point.. my mates 390bhp saff was a little quicker than hes mate cossie....but this wasnt enough he gave it in and got 517bhp about 6 months later.. they went to collect it and on the day he told me it was quick but laggy.. he then raced it against the same cossie and got dusted..not only that..he got dusted at every traffic lights,every roundabout,every straight.. he recalled that every time they came to a straight he started to pull him in but couldnt get past the t34 cossie ..after spending all the cash,time and effort he finally said the truth and said hes old t34 390bhp set up was quicker.. he said if he raced the new set up against the old set up the old setup was quicker.. its like having a massive t4 turbo what good is it if a average cossie running a small turbo would dust you? yes on the motorway it maybe a different story BUT racing on the motorway doesnt happen often so why spec a car to race people on motorway lol
I started from scratch with my New engine and every part is spec'd for the next by the companies that know, comparing it to a T34 spec would be like night and day and anyone that says I'm wrong has been in the wrong cars.
19-02-2013, 09:54 AM
#87
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I think it just depends on how much traction you've got as in any real 500hp rwd car you will struggle to lay all the power down in the lower gears unless your running boost per gear or boost to speed
19-02-2013, 10:46 AM
#90
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These threads really make me giggle to be honest, no disrespect to ANYONE who posts on them, BUT the T34 350-400 boys will always say their setup is the best and then yes you've geust it the 500-600 will say theirs are far superior, pretty pointless threads really.
BUT LIKE I SAY, PERSONAL CHOICE.
now let's move on amd talk about fanny's or something
the 500-600 will say theirs are far superior, pretty pointless threads really.BUT LIKE I SAY, PERSONAL CHOICE.
now let's move on amd talk about fanny's or something
Best is subjective but faster/quicker can be measured & the big Power cars properly specced will simply piss off up the road as the vid shows.
Ive had them all untill others have how can they comment.
19-02-2013, 11:24 AM
#92
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19-02-2013, 12:11 PM
#94
People who say T4 spec 500bhp cars are slow clearly can't drive, just keep the rev's above 4000rpm and rev it to 8500rpm and you're away! There's no tail off like the T34's and I don't know how people can compare 350-400bhp to 500-550bhp.
19-02-2013, 12:13 PM
#96
19-02-2013, 12:26 PM
#97
power is great but it is torques that give acceleration! more over torque to weight ratio!
This combined with power to weight ratio! This is why Lots of mid to top range torque is important in racing as it facilitates lots of acceleration out the corners on to the straights!
This combined with power to weight ratio! This is why Lots of mid to top range torque is important in racing as it facilitates lots of acceleration out the corners on to the straights!
19-02-2013, 12:29 PM
#98
On the public road its all about the driver and how much of a cunt he is willing to look.
If you don't care about the din and the onlookers then a 600bhp high revving 2 litre turbo will waste a 400bhp one given the same weight, gearing and a good driver in both. The end.
However - those of us who want to make progress quietly and discretely require lots of low end torque and care little about its power above 14'000 rpm. LOL
Small capacity engines with big power via big turbos require a certain driving style that does NOT suit most road drivers.
I have been telling people this for years... nobody ever listens though... they want that number 5, or 6 on their dyno sheet / reg plate / signature line.
If you don't care about the din and the onlookers then a 600bhp high revving 2 litre turbo will waste a 400bhp one given the same weight, gearing and a good driver in both. The end.
However - those of us who want to make progress quietly and discretely require lots of low end torque and care little about its power above 14'000 rpm. LOL
Small capacity engines with big power via big turbos require a certain driving style that does NOT suit most road drivers.
I have been telling people this for years... nobody ever listens though... they want that number 5, or 6 on their dyno sheet / reg plate / signature line.
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 19-02-2013 at 12:31 PM.
19-02-2013, 12:43 PM
#99
Advanced PassionFord User
OP is trying to say in the day to day world and on normal roads, 500bhp is too much and can only put down what the stage 3 car can put down. So makes it pointless going big power for this kind of road use.
Big power is for track or willy waving
Big power is for track or willy waving
19-02-2013, 01:08 PM
#100
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On the public road its all about the driver and how much of a cunt he is willing to look.
If you don't care about the din and the onlookers then a 600bhp high revving 2 litre turbo will waste a 400bhp one given the same weight, gearing and a good driver in both. The end.
However - those of us who want to make progress quietly and discretely require lots of low end torque and care little about its power above 14'000 rpm. LOL
Small capacity engines with big power via big turbos require a certain driving style that does NOT suit most road drivers.
I have been telling people this for years... nobody ever listens though... they want that number 5, or 6 on their dyno sheet / reg plate / signature line.
If you don't care about the din and the onlookers then a 600bhp high revving 2 litre turbo will waste a 400bhp one given the same weight, gearing and a good driver in both. The end.
However - those of us who want to make progress quietly and discretely require lots of low end torque and care little about its power above 14'000 rpm. LOL
Small capacity engines with big power via big turbos require a certain driving style that does NOT suit most road drivers.
I have been telling people this for years... nobody ever listens though... they want that number 5, or 6 on their dyno sheet / reg plate / signature line.
I feel my 3dr is at its absolute limit of what the power should be for the chassis... Hence I don't want anymore in happy to stop around the 400 mark.. And as it is its nice and quite and drive smooth... Coupled with a 30year old driver it's becomes a very potent car... I will admit if I had anymore power I'd literally kill myself in it
I totally agree even tho I wind most up ... That a 500bhp T4 powered would simply leave mine behind with the right driver Fact.
19-02-2013, 01:15 PM
#101
"Wow, I never rev it past 5K in case it blows up"
I sometimes think I should list myself as an "Automotive Chimney Sweep" in the yellow pages. ROFLOL
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 19-02-2013 at 01:19 PM.
19-02-2013, 01:16 PM
#102
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The easy thing to do if you want over 500bhp is chuck a cheap LS V8 in, and twin turbo it.. Over 1000bhp on stock internals 
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...g_bang_theory/
IMHO over 500bhp from a YB becomes a game of seriously diminishing returns, I could probably count on my fingers how many people ha e gone big power & not regretted doing so.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...g_bang_theory/
IMHO over 500bhp from a YB becomes a game of seriously diminishing returns, I could probably count on my fingers how many people ha e gone big power & not regretted doing so.
19-02-2013, 01:19 PM
#104
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A clear grippy track with a close ratio gearbox & slicks is somewhat a different proposition to the road, with varying surfaces, other drivers, junctions , roundabouts & everything else to deal with...
19-02-2013, 05:16 PM
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How many rebuilds have you had? 
not a dig at all, but big power is big money, you are a bit of a die hard, and now mainly use your car for track work & hill climbing?
No one is saying a t34 car will out drag a T4/ xxx monster turbo big money car, but for a hell of a lot of people the next stage of power & expense removes the fun from the car, and instead it becomes an expensive unreliable nightmare that isn't much fun to drive.
P.s I would love to go for a spin in your 3 door somtime please?
not a dig at all, but big power is big money, you are a bit of a die hard, and now mainly use your car for track work & hill climbing?No one is saying a t34 car will out drag a T4/ xxx monster turbo big money car, but for a hell of a lot of people the next stage of power & expense removes the fun from the car, and instead it becomes an expensive unreliable nightmare that isn't much fun to drive.
P.s I would love to go for a spin in your 3 door somtime please?
19-02-2013, 06:29 PM
#110
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interesting points.. ok now whwat would a t4 500bhp cosworth do 0-60 in? SMITS car on here running 340bhp ran 3.9! thats fast enough i have seen 500bhp cossies with slower times.. so why the hype?
19-02-2013, 06:34 PM
#111
19-02-2013, 07:26 PM
#112
cossie fan (unluckerly)
But it's each to there own some don't like the cost needed to go that far and some are happy with 350
19-02-2013, 08:00 PM
#113
"Wow, I never rev it past 5K in case it blows up"
They always emit a huge cloud of black soot out of the back too... indicating the exhaust system has not seen that level of exhaust pressure for quite some time.
I sometimes think I should list myself as an "Automotive Chimney Sweep" in the yellow pages. ROFLOL
Lol thats hilarious, what a total waste of a car, I couldn't wait to hit the limiter just to see what happened!
It feels piss slow if you dont rev it over 5k.
19-02-2013, 10:14 PM
#114
How many rebuilds have you had? not a dig at all, but big power is big money, you are a bit of a die hard, and now mainly use your car for track work & hill climbing?
No one is saying a t34 car will out drag a T4/ xxx monster turbo big money car, but for a hell of a lot of people the next stage of power & expense removes the fun from the car, and instead it becomes an expensive unreliable nightmare that isn't much fun to drive.
P.s I would love to go for a spin in your 3 door sometime please?
not a dig at all, but big power is big money, you are a bit of a die hard, and now mainly use your car for track work & hill climbing?No one is saying a t34 car will out drag a T4/ xxx monster turbo big money car, but for a hell of a lot of people the next stage of power & expense removes the fun from the car, and instead it becomes an expensive unreliable nightmare that isn't much fun to drive.
P.s I would love to go for a spin in your 3 door sometime please?
But this time it's done right and that's the thing it needs to be done right and it's not just the engine it's the whole suspension/transmission package too.
The rear beam on a Cossie is woefully inadequate for a standard 204bhp let alone almost triple the power, then you need to look at suspension, bushes, anti roll bars, bottom arms, diff, tyres (very important) the list goes on and on.
If you're going to spend a fortune on the engine you need to spend it on everything else too.
They become unreliable because basic things like the simple fuel pump wiring gets over looked, the events of last year have taught me "Do it once do it right" Cossies aren't cheap and they never will be!
Althought mine is setup and bias toward hillclimb and sprinting It think that makes for a really good road setup too and mine is still completely road legal and I love driving it been out today in the sunshine and it's excellent.
You're always welcome to come out in it Will pop round the wekend if you're about
Rich
19-02-2013, 10:30 PM
#115
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Luckily for you, there are very few around. The amount of times I have taken owners out to diagnose alleged performance problems and they have gone white with fear whilst grabbing for the Jesus handle never fails to surprise me, and in almost ALL cases they say the same thing...
They always emit a huge cloud of black soot out of the back too... indicating the exhaust system has not seen that level of exhaust pressure for quite some time.
I sometimes think I should list myself as an "Automotive Chimney Sweep" in the yellow pages. ROFLOL
They always emit a huge cloud of black soot out of the back too... indicating the exhaust system has not seen that level of exhaust pressure for quite some time.
I sometimes think I should list myself as an "Automotive Chimney Sweep" in the yellow pages. ROFLOL
19-02-2013, 10:33 PM
#116
PassionFord Post Troll
I think a lot of it comes down to the engine builder thats chosen or if its a slapped together package....
My mate Deano has a 550 bhp Escort Cos and that is one of the most drivable cars ive been in. Its just not what i expected hardly any lag and revs too 8500rpm!! Far from slow infact, i think its come alive from how it was before.
My mate Deano has a 550 bhp Escort Cos and that is one of the most drivable cars ive been in. Its just not what i expected hardly any lag and revs too 8500rpm!! Far from slow infact, i think its come alive from how it was before.
20-02-2013, 01:12 PM
#118
As a road car I preferred my sapph when it was around 380-400bhp, after going for 500bhp it was obviously faster and the power is addictive, but, probably down to me using a T4 as opposed to a Borg warner or GT series turbo, the main advantages i found were at silly license losing speeds, I never thought I would say this but I actually preferred mine at around 400, it suited my driving more.
I would think that the majority of cossies that end up being 500bhp plus have just evolved over the years when people get used to the power lol.
I would think that the majority of cossies that end up being 500bhp plus have just evolved over the years when people get used to the power lol.
20-02-2013, 02:01 PM
#119
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20-02-2013, 07:03 PM
#120
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