lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

Had my saff painted 3 months ago, the guy done a good job, so I thought, I was with him watching his work every day and seen plenty of cars he done before I took my car there, anyway 3 months down the line bubbles/blisters have started appearing all over! I'm gutted! Cost me £1500. Iv spoke to him and he's trying to make excuses but says bring it over but he knows very well I can't as the engine is in bits being machined and the axle is off. I'm gutted and will probably end up breaking it now, where do I stand from a legal point of view as to what I can do, no bubbles there before the spray job!

frsjon

not 100% sure but i think its down to moisture in the gun/compressor,i have the same on mine in places

The Underdog

ask him to pop over to you to see it. after all its his work thats gone wrong. its the least he could do i think. where abouts are you in s wales cos im here too lol.

neilscott83

If its a cash job and he gets funny about it tell him you have pictures of the car in his workshop and will report him to the tax man.

Fraggle...

iTrader: (1)

Is the bubbling definately under the paint?


If yes then as you probs know there's quite a few things that'll cause that, moisture in lines, on the panels, or praps in the fillers/primers...

Mostly its due to whats called "cold repairs" where simply the atmosphere is as named, too cold.
Can also be silicone's, fuel residues from the atmosphere, blah blah loooooong list.

The issue is getting rid of them, sadly its a bare metal job in 99% cases

if its laquer blisters then that in most cases is sortable

so all might not be lost yet, get some pics up fella, but deffo be sure of what its under, and tbh id be looking at the painter for the problem to be resolved...


Hope your lucks in

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

Iv been told moisture in gun too! Iv asked him to come have a look now and he's coming to have a look but says it may be the metal not his work usual bullshit! Iv got loads of pics of the car during the work so I could use them as evidence.

Fraggle...

iTrader: (1)

Yup moisture in the gun is rife esp if it has been cleaned and not dried thourough or instead of water cleaned its had thinners through it, when as anyone who knows will say if your a painter you have specific guns for specific jobs, so a gun for water based, seperate laquer gun, primer gun and so on...ALOT less risk of contaminates then as primer/2k's an the like need to be thinner cleaned and water born's need the obvious really lol or thinner cleaned and PROPERLY water washed and dried straight away, ideally given a complete strip and blown/heat dried..


Bloody hard to pin point exactly whats caused it but chance's are it'll be prep's, housekeeping, or conditions...again long list


And How can it be the metal unless rust has been prepped/painted over? Maybe there's been a reaction with the primer's.

There's a dropped bollock here somewhere..........................



Good luck fella



Edit... please excuze da spellinz, long day

stevecfrst1

As said before, most likley be moisture in the air if they are not using compressor with a dryer and water traps on the ends, if its been done using water base could also be that its not fully dried, if its not been done in a spraybooth in a cold/damp environment that can cause it also.
The only way that he could really blame you is that if the car has had poor previous work or had blisters before the paintjob, and he wanted to bare metal the car which would be the only way to do it and guarantee it and you wouldnt pay him to do it. We tend to find as a bodyshop that people dont want to pay to have older cars bare metalled due to the cost, but if it has blisters or other similar problems you cant just go over it to get rid of it, it must be all taken off.
He cant blame you for anything during the prep process as thats all down to him, sounds like its most likley his fault and he dosent want to re-do it, guess to be fair to him you should get him to look at it though

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Its heart breaking when things like this happened.I got my car painted and new rear arches replace in 2010.The arches are rotton again.I will hopefully be getting them done this year.

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for all the advice Its definetly bad prep/ painting as never had any bubbling before it went thefe! I'm about to take some pictures I'l post them up. The car has chicken pox!!! Iv thrown all new parts iv been collecting for years to, new miuldings, let's, badges nightmare it is now as got to be all taken off again.

Underdog st170. I'm from Merthyr Tydfil where are u from in south Wales?

Fraggle...

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, give him a chance...


I used to enjoy the old "what about fiberglass" suggestions or when ive suggested it NEEDS bare metaling to people in the past, you usually get the old "well thats too expensive" winge...

Many a time ive then suggested they do it themselves, or if they give me £50 for 5litre's of my own specially formulated 2yr old, used brake fluid, id be happy to do it cheaper, and then they can let john wayne and stevie wonder down the road put it right for £150 sovs...Bargain then


People just dont understand, time, price and quality anymore, and there seems to be a real lack of people practacing the above too.

Fraggle...

iTrader: (1)

Its usually down too poor after repair protection, no wax oils an the like, or poor seem closures/protections, or lack of weld through protective treatments.

Sadly if repair sections have been used over say full panel replacement, they as we all know take alot more cutting/welding, leaves alot more exposed weld that cant easily be treated/sealed, rear arch lips are a prime example....


If it helps Glenn my rear arches on my frst are digestive biscuits an all


Just wish i could get back in the game again

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Gutting mate

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

All the areas that are bubbling, tops of doors, wing tops and some of bonnet. Were all perfect before paint and didn't need any repairs, only appeared since iv had it back. The car was primed and left to dry properly then paint applied in an oven. Iv watched his every move with it as I'm fussy! It must be moisture from somewhere. I can't spend any more putting it right as iv spent enough and feel he should put it right as it's obviously down to him. Just hope he re does it and it will be ok, otherwise it's a total loss for me and the car will have to be broken.

luke89

iTrader: (1)

Somthing that hasn't been mentioned and iv only seen once is tack rag glue using the wrong type and/if not left to air and dry can deposit glue and then lift after time , have u had a cover on the car? But yes he prep /painted it there for its Down to him / company and when gettin any paint work always ask about paint warranty , somthing I always offer on my / company work

1374lee

iTrader: (11)

Leigh,that's gutting m8,lets hope he will re paint it as it's gotta be down to him.
Don't even think about breaking it after all your hard work and the time it's taken to get to where it's at now.
I'm sure he will sort it for you.

Thanks.Lee.

The Underdog

rhondda so not too far away. hope you get it sorted without to much hasle mate

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

Cheers guys fingers crossed he can sort it as iv lost interest in it now until it's sorted and I really don't want to break it what in my mind is if it is painted again what's to say it won't bubble again?
I knew I should of matt blacked it with aerosol cans!!!!

Bad Boy Al

Well being a painter I would say it sounds like moisture from the air line an obviously not down to you.
Might be a pain in the butt for him to do it again but it needs to be done.
I know I would if it was me an its his reputation.
Like they say bad news travels quicker than good.
Get him to read this thread an I would expect him to put it wright.
My mate had a expensive p/job done by a company which I ripped apart. He got the job redone at no cost to himself.
Result on my behalf for my mate. Hope this helps. Good luck

Al

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Hi lee,gutted for you fella.
Don't give up heart mate as the car is the absolute dogs bollox mate,it's quickly become one of my favourite saphs,the stance is just right on it,the wheels,splitters just looks fucking hard as nails!!!
I'd say for certain it was moisture in the lines mate,if he hasn't got a really good dryer after his compressor then it will happen,we used to leave the car in the booth a while to get it up to temperature as paint seems to work better while warm.
If you remember my cossie it was painted over 2 years ago now and the only issues are where I knew I'd taken short cuts like the roof etc.
We painted over 150 cars and never had the issues you have with that mate and in all honesty we sprayed with no heat,prepped in a damp workshop etc but always had the dryer working through the compressor so I'm 99% sure that's the problem.
I'd personally get him to have a look and if he's agreeable your best approach maybe to take those bits right back and spray them in waterbase paint to avoid reactions with a good clearcoat on top.
The clearcoat may give you a few issues if he still hasn't sorted the dryer problems out but it rules out anything that's going on underneath.
The lad who worked for me is still spraying and he's a 100% straight and genuine lad mate and won't mess you about or charge the earth fella.
Good luck mush.

Gazzonator

iTrader: (9)

I hate bodyshops with a passion!

I've used a few now, all from recommendation and each time ended up with shit work.

I had my saph painted (I use the term painted loosely) about 3 and a half years ago, it took 2 months and it is a shit job IMO.

The sides are ripply as fuck, rear arches are the wrong shape (I asked for them to be replaced but the guy refused saying it would be better to replace the rusty bits only) and gone rusty again and it hasn't even seen rain since it was done, patches of orange peel and runs etc, etc.

When I said to him about it he said he would sort out the rear arches by welding new arch sections on top of the existing ones and blend them in!!! No fucking way! I want the old ones cut out completely and replaced!

Anybody who knows me will testify that I'm not shy in spending a few quid on my car so it's not like I wanted a cheap job done, I just wanted it pukka!

I'm seriously starting to think there are no decent bodyshops out there!!

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the advice guys! I went over for a chat today with him and he has agreed to repair the paint work, but still said only if it's his fault which it clearly is! Also did a bit of nosing at his booth etc, airline from compressor to a regulator and...... No water trap so I questioned this and he said I have no problems with the other cars he's sprayed! I'm taking it back when I get a chance in next few weeks, fingers crossed!
Vaughnt, thanks mate really don't want to give up on it as it's taken a lot of time and money so fingers crossed it can be sorted free of charge. If not then as stated on here already it is quite easy for me to ruin his reputation!

botters

iTrader: (2)

no self respecting painter would paint without a water trap! shouldnt need bare metalling as others have said above as that is rather extreme when a good layer of bar coat will stop 99% of all reactions re occuring! all bodyshops should have bar coat in stock in my opinion!

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

I thought the sane he said as he uses an oven u don't need water trap.! I also suggested bar coat before it was painted as it has had a few repairs but he said no need, I always use bar coat if doing DIY repairs incase. The whole car was primed but not bar coat, all the repairs are good so far and no bubbling.

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I wouldn't have used barcoat for a straight paint job as he's rubbed down the whole car and if he's confident in his prep work there should be no issues but it would be advisable now or go waterbased to avoid any sort of reaction.

If he's not using a dryer fella then with the lovely moist weather we get back home as well there's a good chance he'll always have those issues,I'm sure 90% of his jobs are ok but there will be 10% that aren't and sadly one of them was yours.

His point of using a dry booth is fine but pretty much shows that his lack of a dryer is the issue here as he's effectively blowing tiny moisture particles under the paint/lacquer then of course drying it in under the paint.

It won't show when the cars in the shop etc but when it then gets outside and goes through weather changes etc then that's where any paint issues show up,you see it a lot with people who put covers over their cars (did you do that fella?) as the car sweats and breathes.

If youd taken it straight to a warm garage and never moved it/exposed it to the sun there's a good chance it would have cured the paint/lacquer enough for it not to have shown up ,perhaps never but it has so he needs to deal with it.

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

Glenn ur arches probly never got the full replaced
Why they rusting again


On the paint problem bar coat wouldn't stop
Moisture , I'd say the air line is to long and room
To hot , water trap before airline will stop
Moisture oil ext , but lot of people don't use a filter
On the gun

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

One of the main reasons I got out of the trade,it's nigh on impossible to make decent money on it as there's so much that can go wrong,particularly on older cars plus often one persons idea of a mint paint job is another's idea of a crap one.

It was nice when someone turned up with a car they cared about but often when you went right through it and worked it out via number of hours it would take to get it the way it deserved or they wanted it the costs could get silly and then no one really wanted to commit.

There was a guy across the way from us who was constantly flat out with work simply cos he was so cheap,people compared us to him but his work was fucking shocking ,things like not scotching off so when you jet washed the car literally sheets of lacquer came off,overspray,never removing/ masking seals etc.

It's such a thankless game and people want it done yesterday,it's incredible to think that changing a timing belt takes say 2hrs and most folk average on about £200 for the job yet ANY bodyshop job takes 4-5 hours and the same folk think your ripping them off!!!!

In this day and age sadly it's easier to take in 5 £200 jobs from a garage than one £1000 job as that way your putting all your eggs in one basket.

Not all shops are bad mate and my advice is the same to you as anyone else,go and take a really good look at their work,don't get too hung up on the workshop cleanliness as its constantly going to be dusty due to the nature of the work involved.
Another good tip is to see what type of cars they work on,if there's mainly mondeos/vectras/ka's mundane sort of motors chances are they mainly do trade work and like the old in out as quick as possible,fair enough bills need to be paid but can you honestly see anyone other than the yts boy being assigned to an "old sierra"?
Doubt it!
Better off finding a classic car restorer type person or even a specialist vw garage etc as they'll be well aware of the hidden gremlins involved in restoring old motors and then at least you know you'll get an honest answer.
The other option is to use one of the lads off here who do a good job on their own cars as again you'll know there's care involved too.

Frustrating I know and in fact the main reason I started up the business due to the fact that I couldn't get a decent spray job anywhere locally hence I thought there was a huge gap in the market.


How wrong I was!!!!

luke89

iTrader: (1)

Vaughant , we do not have a messy / dusty work shop , gets cleaned twice a day but it is small lol

v man

If it don't get sorted to how you want it just smash is face in with his spray gun

Simple

cossieguy

Everything that's been said could well be the problem. But there is one area that always gets missed WET FLATTING! If wet flatting process is used on high build primers without baking BEFORE painting then there is a problem right there.

As all high build primers are pourous they exorb water unless the panel is baked/heated to remove that moisture then its not gonna go anywhere. Add base coat, lacquer and its trapped.... Given time that moisture can only go one way UP.

May or may not be the problem here but it is something that always gets missed and it worth considering.

There's a company called UNIT24 in Camberley, Surrey that have 2 of the most experienced painters you'll come across. If you want a job done right first time then that's one place I would recommend.

Good luck hope you get it sorted.

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Fair play for keeping it that way mate,it's not easy.
Fucking dust gets everywhere!!!
I read this on another forum but can honestly say we never experienced this and always wet flatted any repairs.

The cars were thouroghly dried/panel wiped/tack ragged etc first but I still think this is due to moisture in the lines as its something we never experienced although we did all the other wrongs!!!!