who builds the best wrc engines
22-10-2012, 01:03 AM
#42
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but they have been doing 2 seasons 
Julians fiesta has done 2 seasons with a top and tail effectively and won the championship
John Cross went through several yb builder's who were charging in excess of 45-50k a engine and in 1 season went through 14 engines in 9 race weekends so with discounts ect he spent in circa 300k+ to finish nowhere, went to Julian spent 48k and won 6 races straight off and one the european championship and after the 6 races the engine was just top tailed just for a check !The man is proven and the fact that most serious race car owners in europe and beyound dont think twice about havimg a engine built by him
Julians fiesta has done 2 seasons with a top and tail effectively and won the championship John Cross went through several yb builder's who were charging in excess of 45-50k a engine and in 1 season went through 14 engines in 9 race weekends so with discounts ect he spent in circa 300k+ to finish nowhere, went to Julian spent 48k and won 6 races straight off and one the european championship and after the 6 races the engine was just top tailed just for a check !The man is proven and the fact that most serious race car owners in europe and beyound dont think twice about havimg a engine built by him
Hey i know jg is a top builder and has great respect but you do talk some waffle jay!!lol
Name 5 people that john spent 45-50k with in just one season??
Id say if he did (big if)and then all of a sudden started winning everything there would be more to it than just a new engine..
Joe knows john and jg so il find out..also ask john how well he did after joe helped him out in hurry one season??
I think you will find he did pretty well that w.end??
cheers danny
22-10-2012, 09:28 PM
#43
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julian godferry built the engine for the rally x fiesta here in ireland that dominic built, its owner is tommy graham . irish winning car . i now the engine only ever needed a top and tail . its still going strong .
what i would like to no is , where is the delivery of the power and flb best deliverd at what rpm ect to make a good tarmac spec emgine . is the torque
better deliverd down low in the rev range ? what do you rev a wrc engine to , and at what reves do you change at .
thanks steven
what i would like to no is , where is the delivery of the power and flb best deliverd at what rpm ect to make a good tarmac spec emgine . is the torque
better deliverd down low in the rev range ? what do you rev a wrc engine to , and at what reves do you change at .
thanks steven
22-10-2012, 09:43 PM
#44
you have to make all the torque down in the rev range steven as the restrictor prevents the engine from achieving its maximum VE in the higher rev range, hence restricted power.
The earlier you can get the engine to consume the pressure feed in the more torque you will create, sounds easy, its not, hence why the restictors are used.
Though a mix of CR and high volume of air at high pressure = loads of torque
The thing is you have to optimise the engines spec to make use of the revs you have, much after 5500-6k and you are done, yes they will rev higher but your then losing power. Though you do need it to hold onto a gear every now and again rather than a shift.
The use of long stroke enables the time/speed of the piston positioning in the bore for max cylinder fill/compression pressure at any given moment. not ideal for all instances but for a turboed high CR engine with a rather large boost volume is great.
Keeping it all together with huge cylinder pressures is another thing, hence why a lot of engine builders will run a lower cr to keep the longevity of the motor and its components.
Its not quantam physics, just basic physics lol to build engines once you understand them.
The time spend doing the trial and errror (sorry meant R+D) is where people charge for their knowledge and repeatability/consistency - and after all they have to make a living out of it, no one works for free!
Mark
The earlier you can get the engine to consume the pressure feed in the more torque you will create, sounds easy, its not, hence why the restictors are used.
Though a mix of CR and high volume of air at high pressure = loads of torque
The thing is you have to optimise the engines spec to make use of the revs you have, much after 5500-6k and you are done, yes they will rev higher but your then losing power. Though you do need it to hold onto a gear every now and again rather than a shift.
The use of long stroke enables the time/speed of the piston positioning in the bore for max cylinder fill/compression pressure at any given moment. not ideal for all instances but for a turboed high CR engine with a rather large boost volume is great.
Keeping it all together with huge cylinder pressures is another thing, hence why a lot of engine builders will run a lower cr to keep the longevity of the motor and its components.
Its not quantam physics, just basic physics lol to build engines once you understand them.
The time spend doing the trial and errror (sorry meant R+D) is where people charge for their knowledge and repeatability/consistency - and after all they have to make a living out of it, no one works for free!
Mark
22-10-2012, 09:51 PM
#45
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you have to make all the torque down in the rev range steven as the restrictor prevents the engine from achieving its maximum VE in the higher rev range, hence restricted power.
The earlier you can get the engine to consume the pressure feed in the more torque you will create, sounds easy, its not, hence why the restictors are used.
Though a mix of CR and high volume of air at high pressure = loads of torque
The thing is you have to optimise the engines spec to make use of the revs you have, much after 5500-6k and you are done, yes they will rev higher but your then losing power. Though you do need it to hold onto a gear every now and again rather than a shift.
The use of long stroke enables the time/speed of the piston positioning in the bore for max cylinder fill/compression pressure at any given moment. not ideal for all instances but for a turboed high CR engine with a rather large boost volume is great.
Keeping it all together with huge cylinder pressures is another thing, hence why a lot of engine builders will run a lower cr to keep the longevity of the motor and its components.
Its not quantam physics, just basic physics lol to build engines once you understand them.
The time spend doing the trial and errror (sorry meant R+D) is where people charge for their knowledge and repeatability/consistency - and after all they have to make a living out of it, no one works for free!
Mark
The earlier you can get the engine to consume the pressure feed in the more torque you will create, sounds easy, its not, hence why the restictors are used.
Though a mix of CR and high volume of air at high pressure = loads of torque
The thing is you have to optimise the engines spec to make use of the revs you have, much after 5500-6k and you are done, yes they will rev higher but your then losing power. Though you do need it to hold onto a gear every now and again rather than a shift.
The use of long stroke enables the time/speed of the piston positioning in the bore for max cylinder fill/compression pressure at any given moment. not ideal for all instances but for a turboed high CR engine with a rather large boost volume is great.
Keeping it all together with huge cylinder pressures is another thing, hence why a lot of engine builders will run a lower cr to keep the longevity of the motor and its components.
Its not quantam physics, just basic physics lol to build engines once you understand them.
The time spend doing the trial and errror (sorry meant R+D) is where people charge for their knowledge and repeatability/consistency - and after all they have to make a living out of it, no one works for free!
Mark
i wanted peoples op on wrc specs ect , i am going to have a chat with dominic ref his spec to see what he thinks .
i just want a good engine that works well and delivers the power where best needed .
many thanks steven
22-10-2012, 10:01 PM
#48
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Not really fair to judge and list out faults, but I'm sure every engine builder has their issues. But personally wouldn't have one from Julian Godfrey especially for the prices they charge. But that's just me.
22-10-2012, 10:07 PM
#49
And you cant just consider the engine Steven. WRC will change gearboxes and ratios at a whim to optimise their package for any particular rally.
Most mere mortals wont have that option. So what might suit one race, may not suit another.
Most mere mortals wont have that option. So what might suit one race, may not suit another.
22-10-2012, 10:44 PM
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What did you see that means you wouldn't go that route? Genuinely interested.
Harvey clearly builds a great engine no doubt, but I would guess many others would describe Julian's as proven time and time again too?
23-10-2012, 09:05 PM
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your right wrc cars did have differant ratios ect , as i am only small fry and will be doeing all on a small budget my gear box will be built to a spec and will have to stay like that .
my engine i will want to be the best it can be for tarmac rallying .
thanks steven
23-10-2012, 09:10 PM
#52
Might be best to build the engine to perform best on the unrestricted events. And just suffer whatever power loss that means at restricted events.
I'd imagine that without a huge budget and support, actually being competitive in proper rallies will be a mammoth task. So may as well target going very very fast on the unrestricted events instead, and just do the rallies purely for fun.
Do you know what the actual rules will be for whatever class you'll be running in for rallying ?
And dont you need to get a load of MSA signatures etc on basic events before you can jump in at a highish level at proper rallies ?
I'd imagine that without a huge budget and support, actually being competitive in proper rallies will be a mammoth task. So may as well target going very very fast on the unrestricted events instead, and just do the rallies purely for fun.
Do you know what the actual rules will be for whatever class you'll be running in for rallying ?
And dont you need to get a load of MSA signatures etc on basic events before you can jump in at a highish level at proper rallies ?
Last edited by stevieturbo; 23-10-2012 at 09:12 PM.
23-10-2012, 09:26 PM
#53
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Might be best to build the engine to perform best on the unrestricted events. And just suffer whatever power loss that means at restricted events.
I'd imagine that without a huge budget and support, actually being competitive in proper rallies will be a mammoth task. So may as well target going very very fast on the unrestricted events instead, and just do the rallies purely for fun.
Do you know what the actual rules will be for whatever class you'll be running in for rallying ?
And dont you need to get a load of MSA signatures etc on basic events before you can jump in at a highish level at proper rallies ?
I'd imagine that without a huge budget and support, actually being competitive in proper rallies will be a mammoth task. So may as well target going very very fast on the unrestricted events instead, and just do the rallies purely for fun.
Do you know what the actual rules will be for whatever class you'll be running in for rallying ?
And dont you need to get a load of MSA signatures etc on basic events before you can jump in at a highish level at proper rallies ?
stevie , my plans were / are to build the car to the spec i have set it to be for track days , and have as much fun and enjoyment in it next year as possable. and see what way my money is
at the same time i was going to sort things out that would be needed to start rallying , i would hope dominic would keep me right in what all is needed , i need a licence also so was going to get the starter pack from msa, i just joined .
mabie when its all added up i might not be able to fund rallying i will have to wate and see what way work is ect this incomeing year .
i wanted to gain as much info on engines ect as i am interested in them .
thanks steven
23-10-2012, 10:26 PM
#54
I would enquire and see what you need for rallying. I was under the impression you had to do some lower end stuff first and get this signed off to prove you werent a crazed lunatic behind the wheel before they let you progress onto more serious stuff.
Rallying would be expensive though, between tyres, servicing, spares, travel, fuel etc etc
Plus more stage time, which of course is fun, but also = more potential crash time lol
Rallying would be expensive though, between tyres, servicing, spares, travel, fuel etc etc
Plus more stage time, which of course is fun, but also = more potential crash time lol
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