McGoo 69

Im building a rwd escort cosworth from a bare shell ive bought. what coilovers should i look out for 2wd cosworth ones or 4x4?

and are sierra 4x4 coilovers exactly the same as escort cosworth ones or am i best of getting escort specific?

are also are sierra 4x4 and escort cosworth cross members exactly the same?

cheers matty

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the Escos floorpan is merely a shortened Saph floorpan and 4x4 running gear, the springs however are different, in terms of ratings as standard, but otherwise the same fitting.

2WD will not interchange, however.

Crossmember should be the same as well.

Martin

McGoo 69

yeh im aware is slighty shorter so all ford did was alter the spring rates to suit?

so 2wd sierra cosworth shocks/coilovers wont fit a escort cosworth shell? or do you mean they wont work right due to the spring rates?

but they will still fit onto 2wd hubs?

only reason i ask is ive found some coilovers but on the box it says escort/sierra but if your saying that the spring rates are different between the sierra and escort then surly they carnt be for both?

i just want to buy the suspension once i dont want to have to mess with springs after

cheers matty

anglia105e hinson

The rears are interchangeable so It don't matter if there 2wd or 4x4, and springs rates will be harder as there coilovers

But... The front are NOT 2wd struts are smaller diameter 50.something mm
Where as 4x4 are bout 55mm . So they are either to small or too big

4x4 = big hole in hub
2wd = small hole in Hub

Hope that helps

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

As standard the ratings were different, which of course makes no difference when changed anyway, so 4x4 Saph coilovers will fit the Escos as they are the same.

Martin

Rob Virgo

iTrader: (6)

So are 3dr and 2wd saff springs the same....

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

3dr rear suspension arms and anti roll bars are different.The mounting points for the anti roll bar links are in different places on the arms.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

What he ^^ said, but yes the springs between the MK1 and MK2 2WD variants are different as well, the ratings were changed.

Martin

McGoo 69

so if i bought escort cosworth coilovers and had my 2wd hubs machined out they would be ok?

only reason i want to get this done is because if i ever convert back to 4x4 i wont have to change the suspension too

i want to keep as much of it escort cosworth as possible and just change the bits needed to run 2wd

DAN-Saff

Why dont you just use 4x4 stuff and remove the front shafts out of the Outer cv, I've seen your wanted post and tbh if you get the parts your asking for you are going to have a fuck up

A 2wd crossmember is different to a 4x4 crossmember as the engine sits higher in a 4x4 if you then fit 2wd hubs with an Esc cos c/m and rack you will find the steering arms too short you will get steering issues etc etc.

anglia105e hinson

I was just about to say this! Use 4x4 front hubs

McGoo 69

so what do i need then?

basicly i have a escort cosworth shell and i want to run it rwd using a t5 gearbox and focus rs engine

am i best just using all 4x4 stuff?

and i thought running 4x4 hubs with the drive shaft missing is abit pikey?

help me out guys? i only want to buy the parts once and theres so much conflicting info about the interchangeability of cosworth parts..

dojj

iTrader: (3)

use 2wd running gear other than the hubs, use 4wd hubs with the shfats removed but the cv's in place

if you mix and match the 2 and 4wd front end you will get all sorts of steering issues because the 2wd and 4wd have different steering set ups and different steering geometry

make suer you use the correct stuff with other stuff as the arb's are different angles and the crossmember may give you different setups

and don't forget that there were around 17 different spring sets of rht esierra as the 4wd ones had extra weight and also there was the air con models and left and right hand drive versions but all after market setups use the same sized springs left and right

DAN-Saff

If you want to be able to swap to 4x4 pikey or not THAT is the way to do it!

Let it roll around on 4x4 setup and put whatever engine/box you want, then weigh it and choose spring rates but if you put a zetec in it why bother it will never be 4x4 because of the sump.

I've seen your posts before mate you choose the most agro way about things! Putting a zetec in will cost you thousands in custom stuff ie inlet/exhaust just look at fudgy. A Cossie engine/box/cooler etc will cost you less fitup will be bolt on easy and is 380bhp with a few bits and then it might be worth something

Cossie Sean

just use 24v granada hubs with 4 stud cosworth spindles
job done, no fucking about

and fuck the T5 off and use an 2.0 MT75 with s swedish gearkit

again, job done

ballbag42

iTrader: (2)

also make sure you get the correct front hubs as the caliper mounts on a 4x4 sapp are diff from an esc cos 4x4 by 12mm as ive found out[esc cos racecar 2wd rear end and esc cos frt with hubs removed from shafts]

dojj

iTrader: (3)

they were 8mm different from when i did mine about 15 years ago but the grnada 5 studs with sierra 4 stud hub flanges in is the best compromise

again, the 4wd cars run a different steering set up to the 2wd cars so spring rates won't matter if your wheels are pointing in different directions

McGoo 69

i was thinking i want it to be able to convert to 4x4 if i ever got a yb or sold the shell as a roller...

and so what if i do things a little differently theres more than one way to do things.. i started this project so i could learn abit about cars and build my own car how i want it.. yes its taken some time and ive had other cars in between so my plan has changed from the original design but thats irrelevant.

and as for being worth something thats your opinion.. im not building it to sell im building it to enjoy so i couldnt care about cost.

McGoo 69

So were saying the best bet is to find everything escort cosworth apart from gearbox and diff basicly?

will the escort cosworth rear beam take a 7.5inch cosworth 2wd rear diff?

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Mate I have been telling him for years , if he wanted a dog he would buy a cat and give it surgery ...

Just do it the easy way, YB it! Zetecs are wank anyway

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Beam will take a 7.5" 2wd diff, but you have to take 1/2" off the diff casing to fit it into the 7" beam.

McGoo 69

just for the record this is the last time ill be saying this...

i have no intrest in buying a yb engine.. yes there an amazing engine but its just a twin cam pinto.

i could buy a yb for Ł2000 with 80-100k miles, itll need a rebuild and some other bits which will cost atleast another Ł2k!

reliablity isnt the best if you drive them regular and there always sucking money of people.

ive bought a focus rs engine for Ł500 with turbo and manifolds as it was out of a cashed car so the left hand side mount has broken of but as im mounting it the other way ill have to use mounts on the block anyway..

it turns over well enough it all looks clean and if it runs itll be a cheap engine to get me out in the car..

If i need to change parts or ever want to go more power itll be cheaper to rebuild than a yb is and hopefully parts will be available for years to come.

and yes all yb owners will say the zetec is a shit engine and thats good for them, if it was that great ford would be using them to this day.. which there not.. the focus wrc car ran a zetec and it did will i know technically its a cosworth yc engine but there just minor details im still hoping to be able to get a good amount of power out of the duratec rs engine at a reasonable cost and with good reliability

if you dont like the way i do things dont read or reply to my topics its simple realy.

im not here to follow a crowd or do as others tell me, im building my car how i want it.. if you want to help me when i have parts questions or queries thats great but i realy dont listen to smart arses

McGoo 69

so a 1/4" each side of the diff?

do people do this? is it a well proven practice?

would it be better using a 2wd rear beam and escort cosworth trailing arms or is that another mix and match no no?

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

No 1/4" off one side, you will see when you line it up with the beam, you also need to run the 108mm shafts instead of the 100mm 4x4 items.

Ps my above post was a joke, don't get all upset, hence the use of

DAN-Saff

No worries mate I'm not the one asking for help and for the record it's an escort COSWORTH I think you'll find it wont be only my opinion that it will be worth more with a yb.

Nice You obviously have people tripping over themselves to help you with an attitude like that

Goodluck

McGoo 69

ok cheers.

so were saying that im best of modifying the diff case rather than use a 7 1/2inch rear beam as we dont realy know what affect it will have on the geometry or drive-abilty of the car.

im not gettin upset, i know ive done things the arse around tits way but by doing what ive done ive learnt alot.

the first 2 cars i had when i was 17-18 were two mk3.5 fiesta si's

i bought my fast ford featured rep just after i had my 2nd green si, so i didnt know much about cars at the time nor did i have alot of money.

i started to work on the replica, then i sold my si and bought a escort cab which i ran for a while untill it started to die so i then did the 2k scrappage scheme on it and got a 1.5turbo mitsubishi colt ralliart

then i got a e46 bmw 323 m3 replica then i then got a e30 318is..

buy following the route i have ive naturally progressed with my driving and knowledge on how a car works etc..

ive learnt that its a waste of time making big power on fwd when rwd puts it down better

you have to remember i started this journey when i was 18.. i had no money or any real car experiance.. to do what ive done in between im proud of myself, ive done many engine conversions on my drive and they have all been a success

yes the yb engine is the original engine for a cosworth but buy taking a zetec and making it work i will acheve a great deal more personaly than i ever would have done if i just went out and bought a cosworth and changed the wheels

ive selected many one off parts on my build many of which alot may have never seen in a cosworth so even if it doesnt have a yb in it, it will still be an amazing car

i dont take anything on the internet seriously but at the same time i carnt be arse with the same comments over and over.

if the parts are infront of me i can build the car and put it together and make it good but i just need help to make sure i select the correct components the first time round.

McGoo 69

If you want to get technical the shell is still made by FORD not cosworth so i can put any engine in it i want and just wont stick a COSWORTH badge on the back..

and for the 2nd time i couldnt give a fuck what its worth im building it for myself.. and for the record i have a group N motorsport shell which is logged as a escort lx so you can tell all your yb fan boys that too and then then can have there say on that too..

"oh well its not logged as a escort cosworth so it can be a genuine escort cosworth and is worth 4k less"

blah blah blah

I dont need ANYBODY to help me with anything. at the end of the day i can fit 100% cosworth parts and be done with it and itll work just fine.

Im asking for help of people who have done the 2wd conversion to see what bits the found beneficial to change too 2wd insted of 4..

I dont want replys of people who have never done the conversion, who cannot give me correct answers on what there recommending etc.

ive read many different posts since ive been researching what parts to use for my shell and they all state different "facts" on the compatibility of cosworth parts..

some people say everything is 100% the same, others say its all differnent, ive even seen people say that the floor pans are exactly the same and its only the body what was changed which we all know isnt the case..

so just because someone on a forum tells me "this is the way to do it" it doesnt mean im going to go out and spend my cash on parts that might not be compatable..

at the end of the day its my car and this is how im going to build it.

Group N shell > Focus RS Engine > T5 Gearbox

if you dont like the fact im not using a twin cam pinto then dont help me complete the build

but by the same rule have you ever converted a escort cosowrth to rwd or are you just a cosworth know it all who knows how to build others cars?

i realy cba with a internet war its pointless and a waste of my time. Im not a purist either who has to do it concourse and the way ford intended

im building myself my own car based on a shape ive always loved since i was a kid..

itll look the same, go the same but it will hopefully have more reliability.

i realy dont see the issue

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

2wd & 4wd beam are identical bar the diff mount, so if you can use a 2wd item to start with you will save yourself lots of hassle. However I would go straight for a 2wd 6 degree rear beam as it is a vital mod to make your Cozetec handle well, the std 18 degree beams have huge toe changes & make the car understeery & snap oversteer.

DAN-Saff

Lol i cant be bothered read all of that "fanboys " and what not I'm advising you the easiest solution to get you driving as I've seen your post and previous attempts

I don't care what you do as I'm driving around in my car (which is the fun bit)

I converted my Esc cos to RWD 10 years ago I used all the different configurations hubs/crossmembers etc so I know the issues I get people calling me from abroad to ask my advice on cosworths and tbh you've probably bought parts of me in the past lol

Anyway you carry on, and may the force be with you

anglia105e hinson

Mate I can understand what your saying. Yeah there are a lot of conflicting story's regarding the setups , it's a forum not everyone are correct!!!
I have a 4x4 3 door and have had it in all states of tune, different engines and axles.
Do what the others have said , this is my list of recommended parts

2wd beam
2wd diff
4x4 arms (so u can use 4x4 anti roll bar) or 2wd ones if you havent got pickups for the 4x4 roll bar.
2wd hubs
2wd driveshafts

Then the front
4x4 crossmember
4x4 hubs , tcas, rollbar

That's what I reckon anyway , it won't cause any problems

Look I'm willing to help out big time, I see you wanted posts saying tight with money and I replied too.
I have 2wd arms with hubs on
2wd beam
2wd driveshafts

I don't want Alot , now I've had to move out my workshop and take everything back to my parents as I split with my ex and got rid of the house. Got so much shit and need rid of .
You and only you can have it all for say ..... Ł50
It all needs painting and bushes and gators so it ain't mint at all but driveshafts are that alone. So if ya want them let me know.

Im helping ya cos I know how hard it can be to gather stuff on a budget, I've done it, i built my rep which is near enough as good as a real one and it has taken years.

Gazzonator

iTrader: (9)

As a few have already said, I'd just use the 4x4 setup with the shafts taken out but with the outer CV joints left in.

To make it neater (if that bothers you), you could do as I did and have the cups machined off of the CV joints.

McGoo 69

cheers mate for the reply, thats a great help!

regards the beam, i guess your refering to the 6degree beam as a 2wd saph cosworth beam and the 18 degree is a escort cosworth beam?

coztec... i like it

my previous attempts may have been fwd but when i started it was only going to be a 3k build or less.. but since joining passionford and getting more into my cosworths my plan changed as i didnt want to go fwd.. having said that that doesnt make my "previous" attempts a failure it just means the more ive spent on the car the more sence it makes to change plans and build from a better base.. surely anyone can agree with that.. im 23 i have alot to learn but there isnt many 23 year olds that i know of even attempting to do what im doing so when people get hung up on the fact that its not got the right engine or its not genuine its fustrating.

I apologise for my rant had a busy day and ive had to sell my e46 so i was narky. ill take what youve said into consideration

anglia105e hinson: cheers for the help mate. ill get intouch next week about getting the parts of you, ive had a busy few weeks ive ive been selling of some of my old bits and rearranging stuff but ill get on it next week and sort it all out

Kitchen Devil: cheers for that, thats a very tidy way to do it! looks factory. i just didnt want half a cv joint sticking out as thats a mot' testers dream..

i dont see 4x4 hubs being a problem now its a much better idea, only thing is i missed out on some avos on ebay yesterday as i set my bid low just incase i went 2wd hubs

cheers for all the info guys these are the answers i need!

matty

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Nope, as said all cosworth beams are the same geometry, 2wd or 4wd are all 18 degree, the 2wd beam has a slightly (1/2") wider diff carrier.

The 6 degree beam is achived by modifying the pick up points for the trailing arms, and the arms are altered as well. Have a search for threads on here about them, and why it's such a vital mod.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

And as we have said before mate, people are not having a go at you for anything, they are all just trying to help you get the best car for your money , we are all enthusiasts here trying to help each other out, but sometime it takes a bit of pisstaking to get points across.

Have a serious think about what you really want, to go zetec will be a lot more hassle than you initially think I promise you! Yes the parts might be cheaper, but you can easily run over the cost of a stonking YB install by the time you have messed about buying all the small bits & custom bits you will need, just food for thought.

No one is saying don't go for a different engine, but why go the hard way for no real benefit over an engine designed to fit there that is almost the same as you want to "swap" it for? How about an interesting V8 or somthing like that?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

ls v8 and job done

same sort of power levels and much more reliabilty and much easier to drive than an all singing all dancing zetec turbo, and probably cheaper as a lump too as i've seen them from as little as 4k for engine loom and box together

McGoo 69

cheers for the advice lads, im trying to track down the bits i need to get it rolling so once i have ill start a build thread.

i understand the zetec isnt made for the cosworth and theres going to be certain problems that may arise during the build but ive already bought my FRS engine for 500, a t5 gearbox will be around Ł300 Then i just need a new flywheel Ł200, and then ill need the retro ford water rail Ł200. thats Ł1200 for everything to get the engine mounted.

I dont have 2k-4k sat there waiting to be spent on a engine. doing it bit by bit alows me to get ideas together and build it when parts are available.

i didnt think of a v8 but thats still mega money.

if i play my cards right it shouldnt be to costly to get the zetec to fit.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

LOL, no a Zetec is a FWD engine , although it can be made to work in F/R configuration.

Plus as well, will it not take some serious work to get a T5 to fit?

It seems you haven't factored in loom or management for the Zetec either.

Why don't you just RWD it with a YB, seems far easier to me?

Martin

Gazzonator

iTrader: (9)

Fudgey had a Zetec turbo in the Sierra that he built and I've seen mk1 and mk2 Escorts, Cortinas, Anglias etc that are all rear wheel drive with Zetecs in them so it can't be that difficult to do.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

stick in a red top vauxhall enigne to really annoy the ford lovers

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

RWD, yes, but mating the T5 to it as well?

Martin