lukeytheduke

hi folks, can someone recomend an afr kit and explain the bits needed. Also is the kit in anyway connected to ecu as currently l6 2wd saph but just brought a l8 for next year if that makes a diff?

Cheers.
Luke

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEM-DIGITA...item3f0499edcf

job done, i have used one rangeing from a 300 hp v8 upto 900 hp 2jz. mine is wired in to hks fcon ecu and running closed loop aswell.

stevieturbo

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Innovate-W...item35b07c5945

UK seller and very easy to use.

No idea if any wideband can integrate usefully into the factory ecu or not.

ajamesc

The stack one is easy to fit simple to use

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

Stack in my saph, great bit of kit

lukeytheduke

i guess stack is megga money though isnt it?

stevieturbo

Stack is similar price to the AEM or Innovate.

Ive never used stack or AEM, but the new Innovate MTX really is a quality piece of kit for the money.

All wiring and connectors etc really are excellent and very easy to use.

lukeytheduke

so what other features do they have apart from afr readings and alarms? Im just trying to work out which one is best and if its worth paying a bit more or get a cheaper one

stevieturbo

They all do the same job. What features do you think you need ?

The only possible benefits from one over another is visual appeal of the gauge. Connectivity with other devices, say if using Innovate products to log multiple items, obviously Innovate makes more sense as Stack or AEM wont be compatible.

The MTX has two programmable 0-5v analogue outputs, not sure what the others offer.

Doubt any of them have alarms, as without more inputs any alarms would be pointless.

lukeytheduke

cheers steve. More money to splash out on

ajamesc

I'd google innovate before making your mind up! That's what I went for and it was total rubbish and never worked it was all wired in spot on all joints soildered good earth but never worked right so I sent it back and got a stack one 100 times better!

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

id have to agree ive had stack and aem, nothing between them imo but aem is quite abit cheaper.

Karl

Of the three mentioned here, innovate is the best of the budgets, AEM 2nd, Stack a poor 3rd. (The stack in addition to reading around 0.5AFR too rich also has the most unstable readout. It requires a slower sampling rate so that you see a more steady average AFR rather than a constantly flashing set of numbers!!)

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

my stack and aem ran within 0.3 - 0.4 of msds gear, rsps and tdis.

Karl

I have mapped many cars with all the above mentioned in, and find the AEM is within about 0.3 AFR but the stack is ALWAYS at least 0.5AFR out on boost. (I can't say for certain how far out they are at lighter loads, only really bothered checking them on boost so that I can tell the customer what readings they should be seeing/checking)

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

i wasnt questioning you karl sorry if i came accross that way i just wrote what ive seen, tbh i didnt actually see the stack gauge while msd mapped it i was just going from what they had said, i did watch my aems though on the skyline and supra, ive even bought one for tuning a chevy so cheap at Ł130 and makes life much easier and takes the guessing out with jetting a quad eddy, how close is an innovate ?

Karl

Innovates also seem to be around 0.3 out but I quite like the features some of the kits have and add ons you can get for the innovate equipment. They also seem to have the most stable readout in terms of sensible refresh rate giving an easy to read average reading.

I guess if I had to choose a basic 52mm gauge, value for money the AEM seems really good! They have a lovely clear screen, the sampling rate seems sensible for a fairly stable readout, so not a bad purchase for the money!

lukeytheduke

what additions to the innovative products have then??

lukeytheduke

ok so from i can see is the AEM visually looks nice and does the job.

The innovative looks like a pile of turd but can be run with closed loop which is one reason why im uprgradin my ecu to a l8 one. does the AEM one work with closed loop??

Karl

Some of the AFR systems can produce a simulated narrow band output to use as the lambda input into your ecu. I have never personally done this, as I would always advise the use of a proper narrow band sensor for the purpose of running at stoich simply because that is exactly what it was designed for!

However, I only recommend running in closed loop mode for either std or 803 injectored cars and those on mild cams.

The YB engine runs fairly poorly at lambda 1 when using large (i.e 1000cc) injectors and lairy cams.

Personally I never run a tuned YB in closed loop running unless the owner absolutely insists on it, or the car is fitted with a Cat.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Karl ive always got on with my zt2 have you seen them
http://www.zeitronix.com/

G2RSR

the MTX-L looks better in real, them pics make it look cheap imo.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7WGM...eature=related

Karl

Jay, I've seen them but never tested one. Next time I have a car in with one fitted I'll check it out!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

im ordering a new one soon so i dont have to keep taking it off my car to do checks on another ! so ill have it sent to you first to have a look if you like

stevieturbo

You've obviously never used the MTX.

The old LC-1 was pretty bad. The MTX is nothing like it, and a doddle to wire in.

LC-1 was a pain in the hole to wire in, although they usually worked fine after that ( usually...not always )

lukeytheduke

i found a european aem dealer so il prob oreder through them. no import chasrges etc

http://www.aemeurope.co.uk/product_i...cba3991596a3b7

stevieturbo

Chris is a UK seller for AEM

http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php...deband&x=0&y=0

Although the Latvian guy on ebay, Xenonlv always has good prices and very good service.
Usually next day delivery and no duties.

The link above seems to be from a Greek seller.

lukeytheduke

come on steve..... im stuck now aem gauges look good, esp as in the future id like to get a fukk set for fuel pressure etc etc.

innovative comes with all the proramable computer bits which ill prob never use but their adverts say there the only 100% digital gauge and theyve one awards so im stuck between the two now

1374lee

iTrader: (11)

I wish I knew this when I bought my Stack,cost me around Ł230 at the time,almost 2 yrs ago.Great thread this,very interesting.Here's a few AEM off the bay,a bit cheaper to.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3004543361...84.m1423.l2649


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2305481131...84.m1423.l2649

Thanks.Lee.

stevieturbo

Really it's mostly down to personal preference on how the gauge looks. The MTX comes with a white and black dial.

Most of them do the same thing, and if you arent specifically using it for tuning, it hardly matters.
Although Ive tuned cars with the MTX and never had any issue with them at over 600+

But Ive never used AEM or Stack so cant comment on them.

And plenty of companies have won awards, and plenty of car makers win awards. It really doesnt mean that much

And as for looks...

Doe AEM or any other maker even make a matching set of gauges anyway ? ie boost, fuel pressure or whatever else you might wish to use ?

If the AEM ticks all your boxes and looks the way you want it, just buy the AEM

One issue I can see from a logging point of view is it looks like their analogue out is limited.

Now you should never need a range richer than 10, but it can be handy for diagnostic purposes. If it flatlines at 10:1, you'd never know if it was 10, 9, 8, whatever.

The Innovate's is fully programmable over the entire AFR range it can display which is down to 8:1 or so, and has two such flexible outputs.

Visually, is there really that much difference between the AEM and Innovate anyway ? black for black, and white for white ?
The AEM is a little nicer, but really not a lot different. You could probably fir the AEM cover onto the Innovate lol.

foreigneRS

what is that supposed to mean, and why do you think it's good?

lukeytheduke

cheers steve, its such a stupid thing to get worfked up about but i want it to function as it should.

Aem do other dials i just checked they look nice but expensive. when you say

Quote:
0-5v analog output Gasoline values from 10 to 20:1 AFR

it wont make any diff to me as i wont be using the logging side of it. The thing that matteres to me is the info on the dial is correct and as previously said AEM is within about 0.3 AFR so that will do for me! il get that ordered monday. cheers folks.

Just looked at pillar pods, there 25 quid!!! im sure they used to ne about a tenner

lukeytheduke

no idea mate thats why i mentioned it

stevieturbo

Sure isnt everything better when it's digital ?

Especially my fucking tv that never works right !

lukeytheduke

hahaha digital cameras arent as good as old ones.

foreigneRS

exactly, it's marketing bullshit

lukeytheduke

im going to order the aem one at 9today. Really excited lol

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Ive got an Innovate, i find the readout to be clearer than my m8s AEM... I'd like a stack tho, but the innaccuracy stories put me off... Also it was more pricey, looks pretty good tho.
My Innovate seems to do the job, my only concern is the sensor warm-up time, around 20-30seconds from start-up

Rob Virgo

iTrader: (6)

Have you looked at tying into an iecs , the next gen sec gauge...

Mark Shead

The best meter I have come across is the NGK AFX with the NTK sensor and is within .1afr of my meter.

Mark