Lee Reynolds

In simple terms cos I'm simple lol why should I fit a wideband afr instead of a narrowband afr?


Cheers!

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

IIRC, narrowband shows anything around Lambda 1 as stoich, anything richer rich, and anything leaner lean

But obviously doesn't tell you how rich or lean. And obviously in power enrichment, it would show rich all the time, but you need to know HOW rich, so actually have a figure, of 0.8 lambda or whatever. And obviously in that instance it wouldn't be considered as rich, so is technically incorrect

Jim Galbally

as above. the reason to use a wideband over a narrowband is simple...

the narrowband is WORSE than useless

Lee Reynolds

Well as was thinking initially that the narrowband I've been offered would give me a warning of it running lean so at least you have a indication that you need to back off and investigate, but now I'm looking into it more it seems sense to go WB?!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

For a YB engine on boost, most people will want to see an AFR richer than 12:1 (there are a few running in the low 12s, but certainly ALL under 13).

A narrowband gauge will show "MAXIMUM RICH" at 14:1 AFR, lean enough to melt your engine.

As Jim says, worse than useless IMHO as its actually lieing to you when you're on boost essentially, telling you everything is ok when its not!

Lee Reynolds

Really that bad chip? Wb it is then!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its what the NARROWband bit refers to basically mate.

Essentially they work as follows (exact numbers vary a little, but not much):

14.5 or lower = fully rich
14.5-14.7 = rich
14.7 = stoich
14.7-14.9 = lean
14.9 or higher = fully rich


Just no use at all for anything other than running a car in closed loop, ie the thing they are intended for!
They were NEVER meant for a gauge for human eyes in the first place.

Lee Reynolds

Ok cheers chip, almost bought one too! So for a mild to well tuned rst do you recommend one?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think a wideband is a good idea on any turbo petrol car thats beyond standard tune TBH mate. A quick glance at it once a week on boost is a good way of knowing everything is still working well.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

i think he's after a make and model that you would recommend chip

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its a few years since Ive personally bought an in car gauge as I normally use handheld ones so not sure what the best option at the moment is really TBH for an in car gauge. Innovate DB1 was the last one I bought though and thats been great.

Any of the innovate stuff tends to be pretty reasonable value for the money though IME, but obivously as its using the cheap bosch sensor you have to accept changing it once a year or whatever so you'll see people moaning about that if you look around.
Same applies to pretty much all the cheaper ones though as far as im aware, as they are nearly all based around that same sensor.

Lee Reynolds

Cool cheers!

Rod-Tarry

Mark called my innovate a waste of space when checked against his expensive unit the Stack received a better than nothing vote.

clarke5700

AEM ones are good

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

thats what ive got - no idea what sensor it uses tho

Chip

iTrader: (3)

IIRC he said it was half an AFR out, which TBH is probably close enough for anything Lee wants.

But with all these gauges like the innovate/stack/aem the values are going to vary slightly depending on sensor condition and how recently it was calibrated etc, so testing one of each doesnt really tell anything useful TBH as if you tested another one of each they could be the other way around next time.

They're all close enough to be useful for what Lee is after though.

Ive compared several innovates now to the same Autronic that Mark uses (because its the same on the dyno dynamics rollers and ive had several cars with innovates on those rollers when mapping them) and they have all been well within half of an AFR so far. In fact most are within 0.1

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Same as the stack and innovate IIRC, Im pretty sure they are all on the Bosch LSU 4.2

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

iirc MSD tried an innovate wb gauge and said it was well worth having, not that far out at all.
Some idea has to be better than none anyway, right?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

For road use by an end user, I personally think that anything within 0.5afr is perfect. However, there is a pre requisite to this advice...

I advise you buy a decent one, then have a reputable tuner check your engine and setup out under load to ensure its safe, ideally someone who likes to expend Ł500+ every few months on new NTK sensors (Not cheap Bosch ones) and then if they tell you your in car gauge is XYZafr out, great, you know where you stand as all you really want to know is if it suddently looks wrong compared to how it was when your tuner pronounced it good.

Gauges are only really good for their ability to confirm things are as they were last time you checked, especially if the numbers dont mean much to you.
is 12.5afr ok for my engine? Totally up to your tuner, so just find out what it SHOULD read, and worry when it stops doing so.

Lee Reynolds

That makes sense Stu. Cheers

So would this be what Im looking for?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEM-Wideba...item1c25a30979

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Good advice...

Rollinz

Narrow bands are ok for closed loop tickover thats it.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

so true a stack wideband has saved me a yb, and my current aem wideband has saved me an rb26dett and a 2jz, all for Ł130 its essential imo.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

[quote=Lee Reynolds;5881809]That makes sense Stu. Cheers

So would this be what Im looking for?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEM-Wideba...979[/quote]

thats the kitty, available direct from the states though for Ł130 last time i checked.

my car runs 11 on tdis ŁŁŁŁ worth of equipment and shows as 11.4 on my aem so i know true is 0.4 richer than my gauge, when i was down to one fuel pump it showed me instantly it was lean by dropping to 16 afr as soon as i hit any boost and of the scale to 3 dashes when i floored it. essential for any turbo car.

Lee Reynolds

Looked at the ones from states but assumed Id have to pay import tax?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Personally I would just pay a small premium and buy from a decent uk retailer like graham goode,at least its easy then if there is a problem with it.