Looking to dry sump my zetec turbo engine and was wondering what kit is better to go for. I heard Titan pumps are the ones to go for but not sure what the difference between the two and 3 stage pumps?

Its a zetec turbo in a FWD Fiesta ST. Im pretty sure the pump should fit where its designed to go, i just need to find a realistic place to put the oil tank. I was planning to put it in the boot, would anyone disagree or would someone like to offer an advice for or against?

Im looking to touch on 600bhp out of it so need to Rev my car a little bit higher as i may upgrade my turbo to a gtx35 so it would be beneficial to up the revs.

Any info would be much appreciated!

 

The issue with all of these is the sump pan and fitment for fwd.

A factor of mine breaking the gearbox was due to the sump not bolting to the gearbox casing like the original sump does. It needs revising...especially for hard launches on drag strip.

Mine will be revised soon and from that a kit will be available then for anyone wishing to go dry sump. One kit is already running on a Focus which was the first one.

 

At the moment there is only one company who has actually sorted a full dry sump conversion kit for the zetec and that is jkm performance!

Although the price may seem high, there is a lot more too it in regards to strength etc, luca runs one of there kits and to be fair his car is pushing a few horses and the pressure hassnt missed a beat to my knowledge.

Give them a bell as they are very helpful and always happy to give advice, they are having a big influence on our demo car

 

the pump needs to go on the front not the rear if its fwd.

and two stage is one pressure one scavenge

three stage is two scavenge and one pressure.

 

Are jkm really the only ones that does a complete kit ? My fucking arse are they I worked at pace on the dry sump side for 10 years , and I started there near on 15 years ago and I was machining part for the zetec kits then fwd and rwd and In one year pace sold about 200 kits mainly for a race series so if you want a kit that works then that would be my second choice( as my first choice would be my own system) .
Me and the boss of pace are far from best friend so I wouldn't big them up unless they worked, as for titans it amazes me there stuff still sells ( prob coz paces turn round is slow) as when I was at pace people would send new titan pumps in to be rebuilt as they turned shit, and the only reason they brought Titan was coz pace couldn't turn the kits round quickly , and I hear Titan still have probs with some of there kits , and over the last couple of years Titan have copyed paces kits .
I also spoke to someone last year that brought a pace zetec kit then sold the pump and put a USA pump on it , ok they work but there not great by far , I myself have stripped and rebuilt a shit load of yank pumps and none of them have ever impressed me by far , there either not deburred/ massive clearances/ sticky prv,s and the list goes on , so why in the world would you change something that works well for a load of shit are that right coz people with no fucking clue advise them , you would be amazed if you could see half the fuck ups that some ( some not all) engine builders would send back in for rebuilds/ repares , there animals . Some even stripped them and rebuilt them wrong then wonder why they don't work .
I could go on and even name and shame but I won't.
What you find in life is slot of people will slate things they ain't used first hand .if 600 hp is what you are aiming for you need a 3 stage pump ( removing the std pump) if you want pm me and if I can help I will , my system for the zetec will be out soon , but if you need one sooner then go for the pace one but the boss is a silly man ( I'm being nice) but you won't speak to him anyway, sorry if I started ranting lol

 

hi lacey i take it your on about my pump then lol , each and everyone will have there own opinion about different pumps and kits from different companies , what i will say is that i got the pace kit cheap at Ł850 and phoned pace directly to ask if the pump supplied with the kit (as it was designed orginally for formula ford 1.8L zetec n/a engine running 150bhp)was able to cope with the scavange needs and pressure needs of a turbo charged engine running nearly 3 times as much power etc and the answer was " well i know they have been used on turbo engines running 300bhp but weve never had any feed back so i cant really give you any advice or help , in fact he couldnt even tell me how many litres of oil it could pump , that did not fill me with confidence and just looking around at different pumps i choose very carefully a pump that was A very well built and B used in as many different professional race series as prossible to show reliability and finally C someone who knew there product inside out and could give me the info i wanted to know.
the pump is superbly made and iam sure i will never have any issues , just by turning the pumps over by hand you could hear the vacuum in the ARE pump where it was the pace pump that felt loose with no vacuum.
just my honest opinion and what i have got told and what i have researched before buying the ARE pump.

cheers paul

p.s take a look at ARE webpage
http://www.drysump.com/FordZetec.htm

 

The pump you had was fine and the prob you had with phoning pace is one that alot of people have suffered from ( this is were the boss is a silly man) as he got rid of 90% of the people in the know and now there is only one or two people that could answer your question with confidence , then you have a technical designer there who don't like speaking to customers ( that's help full not) and I would comment on his skill aswel but this is not the time and place , if you had spoke to people in the know you would have been told it is capable as they are the same scavenge as the yb and pressure is sized to the engine so it wasn't one pump does all, and there is more to that than it just the right thing to do as you can have lots of prob from the presure being to big, I can understand what you say about pace not giving you confidence in the pump which I feel is a shame, the zetec kit has been used on big power engines for years so there is no probs there. As for your pump having vacuum by rotating by hand is coz it's a gear pump I assume which is a good move from a rotar pump Coz the internals are diferent you will have to turn a bit quicker to feel a vacuum but fill it with oil and block the outlets and it will lock purely coz the tolerences are very close .
but there is still more to take in to account about a gear pump .
I am well aware of ARE as I have there paper work laying around some where collecting dust but thanks for the link

 

Just found the dusty paper work lol, and if I read it right then you have a 3 lob roots scavenge stage in your pump.
This leads me to ask are you racing your car as over the years at pace we had a lot of feed back on these ( pace did make them years ago for rally cross and bits) the prob with roots is they need to be at revs to work well and if there not ( ie a road car/ track day car) then they won't work how they should unless the pump is speeded up then that can fuck about with your presure .
Root are good in the right applications

 

You show me a kit then that out the box that fits onto a zetec engine for FWD

THERE ISNT ONE!!!

Yes Pace sell a sump and a pump but not a kit that will fit without mods.
same with Titan kit heres a pump heres a sump make the rest yourself!!

Anyhow back to your point where can I source this kit for a Zetec you mention please?

 

I have heard the same about those big pumps interestingly enough.

 

I know my grammar is shit but I think you maybe having trouble reading as I manufactured fwd zetec kits while at pace but maybe it was all one big dream lol, and yes it was supplied as a complete kit , if you still think I'm talking shit then I will get you the number of the ex pace technical director of 23 years and he will confirm this to but maybe he was just day dreaming to lol, if the people at pace can't tell you for shore if they can do a kit that there prob, I can even remember the mod we did to the sump to clear the bracket.
I don't get on with the boss of pace and I could tell you what I think of him , so why would I defend pace ?
I'm not I am telling you that it ain't full of rubbish and pace do/did a full kit for the fwd and rwd zetec , but hay what do I know , maybe I imagined working there for so long lol,
I will have my kit out soon , fwd and rwd

 

Im not disputing you / Pace had a FWD kit, you working there is sure enough evidence of this.
However I'm saying they don't list one anymore or offer one in there range!!

I called many a time to request this and was told they only have a sump pan and a pump, the rest will need fabricating. Just like TITAN, so due to Titan being much more customer friendly I bought there "kit" as if you email they actually reply.

Look forward with interest though into the kit you are currently developing, there is a huge demand for these in the Zetec world. Especially if it can be made/retailed at an attractive price.

Will you be using a cast sump pan and where will you be mounting the pump?

 

Can some one pm me when one of thease sumps is for sale as i shit it every time i drive my fiesta lol

 

Titan customer service may well be better then pace but the prob is the back up when the customer has prob , I would explain but I ain't slating ( or trying not to anyway) other company's and I have done with defend what was a good company ref" pace,

If I had a order or 2 for the zetec then it would happen quicker as I am currently working on some other project .
As for the big demand for these, it would not be as big as you think as ( no offence ment to anyone but people don't put money where there mouth is ) as I am sure people can relate to .

My kit will be priced good as I aint out to rob anyone.
My sump will be cast for strength reasons and it will/does look and work good , the pump will be plate mounted but slung low ( about mid sump/block area ) I won't tell anymore as don't want to give to much away as yet , if you want to see my yb and duratec kit then go to burton power website .
There listed as OPi evolution just to get a idea of what my parts look like .


Clarke5700

Just pm me , and what system do you run at the mo for it to lunch it's self every time ?.

 

i waited and waited for an answer from pace and finally a so called specialist couldnt give me the answers i needed and he was from the technical department.
if the pump was ok then i would of stuck with it as the new pump cost twice as much but gary at ARE was one of the most helpful guys ive ever talked to and my pump was specced for my engine as you can get 4 different internal sizes to meet the needs of different engines so iam more than happy that it will work.
i think what luca is on about is that yes pace make a fwd zetec dry sump kit but it doesnt fit 95% of the engine bays the zetec engine car came with , i know for a fact it would never be a bolt on kit in a mk3 fiesta unless you cut your chassis leg in half which aint a good idea, the only way it would be a bolt on kit is if the pump was high up in front of the cam cover and driven of the cam pulley , the same goes for the titan kit and the ARE kit.
lacey you posting any pics of your kit as its sounds interesting and i hope all goes well and it hits the market at a reasonable price as i think you could be onto a winner. hows robs car coming on?

cheers paul

 

So basically there isn't someone that has used pace pump before and had it fail on them? It's just a few people's different idea's on the pumps that they have owned and compared them to pace pumps and Titan pumps!

I've been looking at the kits up for sale, and they look quite basic, as in, a sump and a pump, it's just for the fwd Zetec set ups the pump appears to get in the way of the drive shaft, but again looking at there sumps it doesn't look too difficult to literally make a plate on the other side of the sump? But obviously spending Ł1500 on a kit you shouldn't have to start making things like that fit!

Lacey me and Clarke have pretty much the same set up, and I know of another who will buy a kit, so make them quickly and at a reasonable price and we will all have one off ya!

 

could u do a kit for a cvh ?

 

I run a standard ford oil pump at 415 hp lol

 

tight fit in an escort
alternator gets in the way and the a/r/bar bracket

 

havent got a anti roll bar , think its the exhaust that will be my problem

 

Here are the links to Lacey's dry sump kits on the Burton Power website for anyone who's interested.

http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-...y/opidsk1.html

http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-...y/opidsk2.html

Cheers

 

Looks like a nice bit of kit.

 

i need to address this on my car too.

i guess getting it working would be a start tho

 

lacey we would be thinking of getting a kit too, just out of interest what happens when on a standard zetec pump the PRV sticks open? does it bypass the filter or is it shit out time>?

 

You remove the guts out the pump and grind the bottom to let it fit in the new pan .
Oil will be pumped in the filter housing which will only let the oil go up to the galley and not into the old pump cavity .

I have in the past had a hand in a cvh kit , I can do one for you but your best bet is to pm me so we can go through what you want

 

I can understand people being annoyed with paces lack of replys this is something they will have to sort along with a rather long list of other things lol, and even tho I am stepping up my game and manufacturing more kits I will still stand by the pace kits as my prob is not with the company but with the boss for strong reason .
If anyone is interested then pm me ( if you ain't already. Thank you).

Robs car is going slowly but he is doing all the right thing and if he carries on like this it will be a hell of a tool , manifold looks the tits ( well done) just need to move things forward as there is still some trick bits to mocked up but he is taking it slow so he can afford all the right parts , it nearly had a yb in it at one point

 

Do you have any photos of the fwd zetec setup that you do?

 

nice one matey it good that hes taking his time as you said build it once and once only and buy the right bits.
i got the new burton power catalogue through the door last week and i saw your dry sump set ups , looks very nice and well engineered , i take it the internal design of your pump is very similar to the pace pump?

probably speak to you at a show sometime

 

so is it fatal for the engine if the PRV get stuck open? just that when we took ours apart we found that if we pushed open the prv it would some times stick?

 

i had a prv jam open on a blacktop oil pump it cost me the engine.
when it jams open you have no oil pressure

 

fuck, do you think is worth changing then as we can get it to stick if pushed with a screw driver? engines in but not running yet?

 

strip, clean,and oil it and try again ,if it still does it i would change the pump.

 

we have cleaned it and oiled it, but did not realise how fatal it could be so, looks like we might be getting another pump now, wanted to use the original pump as ment to be stronger?

 

If the prv sticks open you have had it in most cases,

Zetaboostboy

The internals are different in more than one way , no copying here just different ideas that work well , lol,

 

we have took our prv out today, got wear on 1 side of piston, so we are going to polish it and test, has any 1 ever shimmed the spring? or to a uprated prv, like a nylon one that they done on the vaux red tops

 

Zetec sump pattern is nearly done , should be good for next weekend then a week to cast and a week at the machine shop , pump is ready and waiting , just thought I'd share that with you , ref " completion date

 

nice one bud get some snaps up when you can,

 

I will try and get some pics of the pattern put up later today

 

where will the pump be mounted ?

 

Pic of Laceys sump design