Best way to max out a T4?
24-05-2012, 06:18 PM
#161
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Danny the engine isn't e best (was another tuners) it has too small ports and I agree 500bhp is absolutely 100% possible on a std exhaust cam.
For example if this was a good engine it would have made 500+ on std ex and with the 14 535bhp but it's not so both figures are down.
The 5lb extra boost was where it pulled more.
3500 max boost on std ex cam was 5psi lower than max boost pulled by the 14ex cam at 3500rpm. As was the torque at that point and every per point through the rev range.
A std exhaust cam strangles engines, period, played with or not, for torque and outright power a bigger pair is where it's at.
Like I say the only bit you loose out on is the off boost driveability but at 8:1 and mainly being a drag/hard use engine I would go with a big pair of cams.
For example if this was a good engine it would have made 500+ on std ex and with the 14 535bhp but it's not so both figures are down.
The 5lb extra boost was where it pulled more.
3500 max boost on std ex cam was 5psi lower than max boost pulled by the 14ex cam at 3500rpm. As was the torque at that point and every per point through the rev range.
A std exhaust cam strangles engines, period, played with or not, for torque and outright power a bigger pair is where it's at.
Like I say the only bit you loose out on is the off boost driveability but at 8:1 and mainly being a drag/hard use engine I would go with a big pair of cams.
Its not only of boost where its better as it will make boost quicker too so on boost earlier..it just reaps masses more torque earlier full stop..
Il have a chat with the boys at afr and get some before and after graphs on a couple of the cars i can remember..
Oh yea hello mate!!!lol
cheers danny
24-05-2012, 06:51 PM
#163
The dyno don't lie bud it's up on torque, pulls lower and holds power higher. Timing is where it's at!
Sme graphs with specs would be interesting.
The thing with a t4 is you can't get it to work at 3500, in car 3800/3900 is realistically where it's going to be on full song so for an engine to peak at 7000 and be way over top at 7500 is pointless and that's what a std ex cam does.
With the bigger ex cam is dosnt loose any low down but gains and holds power all the way to 7800/8k! Win win in my books
Get some graphs up and I'll see what I can did out
Sme graphs with specs would be interesting.
The thing with a t4 is you can't get it to work at 3500, in car 3800/3900 is realistically where it's going to be on full song so for an engine to peak at 7000 and be way over top at 7500 is pointless and that's what a std ex cam does.
With the bigger ex cam is dosnt loose any low down but gains and holds power all the way to 7800/8k! Win win in my books
Get some graphs up and I'll see what I can did out
24-05-2012, 08:21 PM
#170
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The dyno don't lie bud it's up on torque, pulls lower and holds power higher. Timing is where it's at!
Sme graphs with specs would be interesting.
The thing with a t4 is you can't get it to work at 3500, in car 3800/3900 is realistically where it's going to be on full song so for an engine to peak at 7000 and be way over top at 7500 is pointless and that's what a std ex cam does.
With the bigger ex cam is dosnt loose any low down but gains and holds power all the way to 7800/8k! Win win in my books
Get some graphs up and I'll see what I can did out
Sme graphs with specs would be interesting.
The thing with a t4 is you can't get it to work at 3500, in car 3800/3900 is realistically where it's going to be on full song so for an engine to peak at 7000 and be way over top at 7500 is pointless and that's what a std ex cam does.
With the bigger ex cam is dosnt loose any low down but gains and holds power all the way to 7800/8k! Win win in my books
Get some graphs up and I'll see what I can did out
Have you actually been in a car with the diff specs or did you just try once on the dyno and come to your verdict??
Show me the graphs you have as its obviously easy for you to do??
cheers danny
24-05-2012, 08:29 PM
#171
Obviously been in whilst mapping and driven a few, std cams feel flat up the rev range IMO, no sparkle. Where a 14/15 exhaust lets them rev freely and pull much harder. You can feel the difference in car.
I won't be able to get any graphs until tomorrow or next week.
I won't be able to get any graphs until tomorrow or next week.
24-05-2012, 08:35 PM
#172
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Now youve said feels flat i know your talking shit!!
If i took you in any of the ones we did you would say what a weapon!! theyre awesome and the low down torque kills a bd16/14 t4 set up..
One of them was cossie4is mate we did the exact thing were talking about and after the changes had 80lb ft more at 4k than with the bigger exhaust..
Il get graphs and id love to see your same graphs..
Did you not know rod was running a std ex cam in some of his early conversions??
cheers danny
24-05-2012, 08:39 PM
#173
I've been waiting for rod to come along and give me shit as usual I'm used to it now 
I'm sure he must get fed up of telling me how his made 700bhp on a std cam..
Bit harsh that Danny, std cams are flat at 7000 end of there's no questioning or doubting a 14-15 cam is still pulling hard!
Your making huge rash desicions based on your doings, what you've done is taken a 14 out not knowing where it was timed and timed a std in nicely and gained a shit load. I agree that is possible.
But, get a 14 timed right (and if I told you where I think it should be you'd laugh but it's where it needs to be) and it is awesome. As stu said on a previous page people don't like the, because the timing is critical.
We have a super flo where we can get the best of any cam, it's only time and have awesome results. That's the fact of it at the end of the day
I'm sure he must get fed up of telling me how his made 700bhp on a std cam.. Bit harsh that Danny, std cams are flat at 7000 end of there's no questioning or doubting a 14-15 cam is still pulling hard!
Your making huge rash desicions based on your doings, what you've done is taken a 14 out not knowing where it was timed and timed a std in nicely and gained a shit load. I agree that is possible.
But, get a 14 timed right (and if I told you where I think it should be you'd laugh but it's where it needs to be) and it is awesome. As stu said on a previous page people don't like the, because the timing is critical.
We have a super flo where we can get the best of any cam, it's only time and have awesome results. That's the fact of it at the end of the day
24-05-2012, 08:50 PM
#174
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I've been waiting for rod to come along and give me shit as usual I'm used to it now I'm sure he must get fed up of telling me how his made 700bhp on a std cam..
Bit harsh that Danny, std cams are flat at 7000 end of there's no questioning or doubting a 14-15 cam is still pulling hard!
Your making huge rash desicions based on your doings, what you've done is taken a 14 out not knowing where it was timed and timed a std in nicely and gained a shit load. I agree that is possible.
But, get a 14 timed right (and if I told you where I think it should be you'd laugh but it's where it needs to be) and it is awesome. As stu said on a previous page people don't like the, because the timing is critical.
We have a super flo where we can get the best of any cam, it's only time and have awesome results. That's the fact of it at the end of the day
I'm sure he must get fed up of telling me how his made 700bhp on a std cam.. Bit harsh that Danny, std cams are flat at 7000 end of there's no questioning or doubting a 14-15 cam is still pulling hard!
Your making huge rash desicions based on your doings, what you've done is taken a 14 out not knowing where it was timed and timed a std in nicely and gained a shit load. I agree that is possible.
But, get a 14 timed right (and if I told you where I think it should be you'd laugh but it's where it needs to be) and it is awesome. As stu said on a previous page people don't like the, because the timing is critical.
We have a super flo where we can get the best of any cam, it's only time and have awesome results. That's the fact of it at the end of the day
Cam timing on a 16/14 set up id say youd start at 110-110 but prob end at say 112-114 in and 108 -110 ex..iv even tried 115 in and 110 ex..
Go with a 280.433 inlet cam and std ex cam and go around the 112 in and 108 ex and see what it makes..
I also have the use of joes dyno whhich is more a less the same as yours whenever i want mate..
Iv also tested many cams on t4 turbos and even more on gt series,infact everytime i try a new cam joe says it wont work but each one has got better..lol
cheers danny
24-05-2012, 09:48 PM
#175
Wow them timing figs are way off what I'd say, maybe the reason we are seeing so good results.
It's all down to personal opinion at the end of the day, I like a flat torque curve with revs, you may like a more peaky mid range set up. Long as the customer is happy that's the main thing
It's all down to personal opinion at the end of the day, I like a flat torque curve with revs, you may like a more peaky mid range set up. Long as the customer is happy that's the main thing
24-05-2012, 10:08 PM
#176
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What exhaust cam do you think the current Topspeed record was achieved with. After me everbody !!!!!!
As regards maxing out a T4 think my old girl is still the fastest - 183.27mph on an old style T4 back in 2002.
0-100 in 8.2 qtr mile 11.8 @127 shucks that didnt work either on a standard exhaust cam
.
24-05-2012, 10:24 PM
#177
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No point Jimbo.
What exhaust cam do you think the current Topspeed record was achieved with. After me everbody !!!!!!
As regards maxing out a T4 think my old girl is still the fastest - 183.27mph on an old style T4 back in 2002.
0-100 in 8.2 qtr mile 11.8 @127 shucks that didnt work either on a standard exhaust cam.
What exhaust cam do you think the current Topspeed record was achieved with. After me everbody !!!!!!
As regards maxing out a T4 think my old girl is still the fastest - 183.27mph on an old style T4 back in 2002.
0-100 in 8.2 qtr mile 11.8 @127 shucks that didnt work either on a standard exhaust cam
.I rest my case!!!!lol
thanks rod,i thought yours was with a std ex cam..
Them figures and times dont lie jimbo....??
cheers danny
24-05-2012, 10:29 PM
#178
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Wow them timing figs are way off what I'd say, maybe the reason we are seeing so good results.
It's all down to personal opinion at the end of the day, I like a flat torque curve with revs, you may like a more peaky mid range set up. Long as the customer is happy that's the main thing
It's all down to personal opinion at the end of the day, I like a flat torque curve with revs, you may like a more peaky mid range set up. Long as the customer is happy that's the main thing
so are you now telling me your cam timing is no where near any of them??
theres only so far you can swing cam timing with a 16/14 set up mate so you must be somewhere around them areas??
If not why not disclose some timing figures??its not like many people even use that old set up much anymore??
The roller bearing twin scroll turbos are so much better than the old t4 and then theres longer duration and shorter of course with same mad lifts that the old 16/14 cams are getting left behind too..
Cam timing can only go so far when talking about a specific duration and lift??
cheers danny
24-05-2012, 10:42 PM
#179
hello jim my old wedge nut long time no speak matey hope all is well
going to get the ball rolling with in the next month matey so hopfully come end of july will be high 400's or low 500 hp
24-05-2012, 10:50 PM
#180
No point Jimbo.
What exhaust cam do you think the current Topspeed record was achieved with. After me everbody !!!!!!
As regards maxing out a T4 think my old girl is still the fastest - 183.27mph on an old style T4 back in 2002.
0-100 in 8.2 qtr mile 11.8 @127 shucks that didnt work either on a standard exhaust cam.
What exhaust cam do you think the current Topspeed record was achieved with. After me everbody !!!!!!
As regards maxing out a T4 think my old girl is still the fastest - 183.27mph on an old style T4 back in 2002.
0-100 in 8.2 qtr mile 11.8 @127 shucks that didnt work either on a standard exhaust cam
. (joke!) like I say, it's all down to individual choice, and IMO a 16/14 or 16/15 is awesome.so are you now telling me your cam timing is no where near any of them??
theres only so far you can swing cam timing with a 16/14 set up mate so you must be somewhere around them areas??
If not why not disclose some timing figures??its not like many people even use that old set up much anymore??
The roller bearing twin scroll turbos are so much better than the old t4 and then theres longer duration and shorter of course with same mad lifts that the old 16/14 cams are getting left behind too..
Cam timing can only go so far when talking about a specific duration and lift??
cheers danny
theres only so far you can swing cam timing with a 16/14 set up mate so you must be somewhere around them areas??
If not why not disclose some timing figures??its not like many people even use that old set up much anymore??
The roller bearing twin scroll turbos are so much better than the old t4 and then theres longer duration and shorter of course with same mad lifts that the old 16/14 cams are getting left behind too..
Cam timing can only go so far when talking about a specific duration and lift??
cheers danny
Your figures are way off where we run cams that's all I can tell you
24-05-2012, 10:52 PM
#181
i have tried many a time steve the bastard thing wont burn lol but i do pretend it never happened in fact it never did!did it steve
hello jim my old wedge nut long time no speak matey hope all is wellgoing to get the ball rolling with in the next month matey so hopfully come end of july will be high 400's or low 500 hp
hello jim my old wedge nut long time no speak matey hope all is well
going to get the ball rolling with in the next month matey so hopfully come end of july will be high 400's or low 500 hp Ps I'm all good thanks hope things are same your way
24-05-2012, 10:55 PM
#182
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Good times, I might have a pop at the t4 record next year.
No they don't, imagine what he could have done with a 14 on the exhaust (joke!) like I say, it's all down to individual choice, and IMO a 16/14 or 16/15 is awesome.
Rubbish! Rally cams run at 98/101 ish so where does the minimum timing come from on a 14/15/16?
Your figures are way off where we run cams that's all I can tell you
No they don't, imagine what he could have done with a 14 on the exhaust
(joke!) like I say, it's all down to individual choice, and IMO a 16/14 or 16/15 is awesome.Rubbish! Rally cams run at 98/101 ish so where does the minimum timing come from on a 14/15/16?
Your figures are way off where we run cams that's all I can tell you
Any way enough bickering with ya..your going to show me some graphs and vice versa??
I reckon the fact that you try totally different cam timing to others is the reason why you cant make a std ex cam work!!! nah nah nah ne nah nahnah!!!lol
cheers danny
24-05-2012, 11:11 PM
#183
Lol, std exhaust cam dosnt take well to where we time other cams, you'd actually be surprised at what 20years worth of my old mans knowledge has taught me
And yes rally cams are far different but there is no limiting factor of where you can time the 16/14 combo so not sure what made you say that!
This is just like the good old days I'm going bed, I'll keep up tomorrow
And yes rally cams are far different but there is no limiting factor of where you can time the 16/14 combo so not sure what made you say that!
This is just like the good old days
I'm going bed, I'll keep up tomorrow
24-05-2012, 11:18 PM
#184
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Lol, std exhaust cam dosnt take well to where we time other cams, you'd actually be surprised at what 20years worth of my old mans knowledge has taught me
And yes rally cams are far different but there is no limiting factor of where you can time the 16/14 combo so not sure what made you say that!
This is just like the good old days I'm going bed, I'll keep up tomorrow
And yes rally cams are far different but there is no limiting factor of where you can time the 16/14 combo so not sure what made you say that!
This is just like the good old days
I'm going bed, I'll keep up tomorrowLike you say he has good results but uses alien cam timing so im in no doubt now that when trying the std ex combo that im on about it wouldnt of worked for you..
Any way night mate speak soon..
cheers danny
25-05-2012, 10:30 AM
#186
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i have tried many a time steve the bastard thing wont burn lol but i do pretend it never happened in fact it never did!did it steve
hello jim my old wedge nut long time no speak matey hope all is wellgoing to get the ball rolling with in the next month matey so hopfully come end of july will be high 400's or low 500 hp
hello jim my old wedge nut long time no speak matey hope all is well
going to get the ball rolling with in the next month matey so hopfully come end of july will be high 400's or low 500 hp Start by getting the cam timing checked because you said you changed the cambelt so did you definately set the cam timing correctly afterwards?
Steve
26-05-2012, 08:18 AM
#187
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I love having debates with jimbo as theres no doubt that his old man knows his stuff and therefore jim as much knowledge..
Its just really interesting to know the different things different people do to get the out comes they want with power and torque etc
cheers danny
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