wilkogsi

i'm wanting a cheapist trackday car thats a hot hatch. i want to spend as little as possible roughly 2.5k.

205 gti- to old for me

172/182 cup- good car but fancy something abit different

306 rallye- already had one stunning car so tempted with another.

integra- already had one plus abit pricey

the car will need to drive too and from track days take a load of abuse and be reliable. it'll be my runaround and do two nurburg trips a year.

anyone had experiance with a clio williams? will it be upto the job or are they abit unreliable?

Cossierick

Maybe a gti6 , there good for the money, bit cheaper than the rallye i think but more user friendly for ring trips.


Definitly wont go wrong with a 172 though, ace track cars.

Clio is a bit old now to be honest. Ud have to really want one as theres better stuff out there i think

rick

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

i think its very difficult to look past the 172/182 clio's at the moment, especially after reading a few rave reviews on here. Chip has got one IIRC.

but an alternative could be an impreza or impreza wagon, strip it out and make it as light as possible? something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1995-Subar...item3cbb41958f

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Gotta be a 172 over a Williams.

I think a Williams is getting to that age where half decent ones should be left alone, should be looked after.

172 is cheap and plentiful, so ripe for it.

MO' BENT RIMS

golf tdi 150. there 150bhp STANDARD couple of hundred quid will get you a remap to maybe 190bhp with an exhaust.. that would shame the clio , save fuel ,cheaper to run and still be very punchy and torquey.. might need good suspension set up though to beat a clio on a track lol because that would be a bloody task

RS Grant

iTrader: (1)

As a regularly used trackday car? Get a fucking grip.


Cheers,
Grant

ontheway

Golf tdi... Who are you kidding
there are a number of guys on here with 172's but if you want something different there's fairly limited choice, i guess you could get hold of something with a vtec in it for that kind of money, and a as a bonus they sound fucking cool

smirnoff

ive been building a clio for track use over the last few months and having owned a williams and and a 172 i would say go for a 172 or 182.

i went for the williams as it just feels more raw to me but one thing im finding out the mk1 is getting to the age where uprated parts and certain spares are getting difficult to find in decent knick where as the 172 182 are plentyfull and cheap.

i bought a part built hybrid clio with a williams lump,box,wide track front etc.spent about 2 grand inc the car and its almost ready but remember theres no such thing as a cheap track day car!

LewisT

Saxo vts awaits the hate. get one for about a grand spend the other grand and a half on suspension and some breathing mods and cams

RS Grant

iTrader: (1)

A good condition, healthy and stripped out VTS with a few basic mods will be a fantastic little cheap trackday car IMO.


Cheers,
Grant

Tank Mike

Are you out of your fecking mind???

I hate to disapoint but tracks are full of corners! Something Golf TDI 150's are no good at and a clio 1*2 is breath taking at!

As for power, Are you again out of your mind? The clio has an awesome power to weight ratio. The golf weights much more than a clio and the clio also has more useable power aross more of the rev range.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Clio 172 gets my vote.

Ive got a williams (well its a home made mk1 to williams and a bit spec technically) and its slightly quicker round a track than I am in my mrs 172 on the same tracks, but the 172 is just SO much nicer a car, aircon, comfy seats etc, if I was going to be taking either of them to the ring it would definately be the 172!

Handling wise they are very similar, brakes are better on the 172, power wise the 172 is higher but the williams is lighter so it all comes out in the wash really.

Williams tend to be rusty too unless you are spending a lot of money, 2.5K gets you a totally mint 172 though.

Madgit

Clio 172 all day long.
Saxo maybe if you've got size 6 feet and don't mind everyone thinking you're driving your sister's car.
MX5 ?
BMW ?
Clio 172

lukeytheduke

i know these are just as old as a 205gti but what about renault 5 turbo or even a nova. Surely with the suspension firmed up they'l be good round a track. How much are nissan pulsars?? Very quick cars they are

RS 5tu

iTrader: (2)

MK2 Golf with a VR6, stripped out wouldn't weigh much
or a corrado VR6
Both good engines, sound great! at full chat and 180+bhp

But like people say the Clio has to be one of the best hot hatches about for the money.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

He says he wants to buy something, not build something.

PileOfRust

i would have said the 03/04 ish cooper s but theyre out of your budget

What about something like this? maybe not the jordan but a normal vti

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CIVI...item19c840ddfa

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Civic VTi is a good call, amazing engines, good box with a really good LSD, suspension and brakes are ok if in good condition.

wilkogsi

tbo i'v kinda ruled a 172/182 cup out. i know there very good cars but every tom, dick harry and scally around my area has one. think i'd have another 306 rallye above a 172.

reason for me asking is, i was dead set on a williams then read this pistonhead advert-
http://pistonheads.com/sales/3140833.htm

are they really that fragile?

smirnoff & chip how have your williams been? on track and road? i don't mind fixing cars but don't wanna loose track time fixing them either.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No that guy is just a cunt clearly (or rather the garage he used are if they fitted an engine that knocked on the very next trackday!)

The ONLY problem I have had with mine in dozens of really abusive trackdays is killing the gearbox again and again, but those were just normal valver boxes not the williams one which is uprated, and since I fitted a 172 box even that has been fine.

Nothing fragile about them at all other than the box and the rust IMHO.


I'd still sooner have a 172 if it had to be a road car as well though, the reason they are common is so many people realise how good they are.

We've used my girlfriend's for 3 trackdays this year, it was brilliant fun on all of them and other than needing new plugs hasnt missed a beat, and also we have done loads of very long journeys, like blackpool and back from somerset, and norfolk and back from somerset, and its a relaxed and comfortable cruiser when on the motorway, but is a fantastically well handling mega responsive car the moment you show it a track or a twisty A road.

They really are epically good all rounders for the money.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ps "bottom end shells cracked"

What does that even mean? Ive NEVER seen a bearing shell "crack"
IMHO The guy hasnt a fucking clue what he is on about and has clearly been getting tucked up by the garage.

PileOfRust

yeah, apparentley you can get a bolt-on turbo kit for the b16's that give 250hp

dont know if its truth or bullshit but ive heard they were originally ment be turbo from factory?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

and the rest!
they'll do WAY more than that on an unopened engine.

meant to be in what way exactly?

they are built in a way that makes them VERY suitable for turbo charging but I dont think it was a case of someone just forgot to fit the turbo when building them

deano2690

there's a load on piston heads mate in the road legal track car bit,

this is something a bit different
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3106253.htm

PileOfRust

im just going on what ive heard lol, i was told that honda was going to turbo them but decided not to.
Woulda been fucking great if they did

S1

Lol, that WOULD have been a Friday afernoon car!

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

I had a Civic coupe last year, was a 1.6SR, so the SOHC vtec, only 130bhp or something, but that punched well above it's weight to be honest, felt nippy and was a riot to drive. Only cost Ł600 and took all the abuse I could throw at it.

VTI would make a great track car. Cheap to buy, engine is fine out of the box and absolutely tonnes of aftermarket bits out there to make it handle even better than standard.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I've got a VTI at the moment, this one:


Saloon model 1800, LSD as standard and 169bhp.
Handling on mine is compromised by the 140K mile old shocks but even despite that its still not bad, the diff really helps matters.

Ive bought it just to break, as Im going to use the engine in a clio, that way I get the light weight and cool looks of a mk1 clio, but with the modern honda engine and amazing box/LSD of the honda.

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Is that an easy conversion Chip? Was the Civic pricey?

Always fancied stripping one of those and having the engine in my Coupe!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Certainly doesnt look it, the sump is going to hit the subframe not matter how much I try and trim the frame back so I will have to have a custom sump made, the inlet manifold is going to hit the bulkhead so Im going to need a different inlet and still probably some surgery to the bulkhead, the exhaust being front mounted and the engine leaning forward is going to require a custom manifold that comes down over the box instead by the looks of it (will mount a turbo on the way though so its not all bad news), the mounts dont look trivial to make because the clio engine bay is high on the drivers side and low on the passenger side and the civic is the other way around, and the driveshafts will have to be expensive one off custom ones.

But I figure that once its done, I then only need a clio shell if I crash it, or a honda engine if I blow it up, both of which can be had fairly easily for a grand, so its a cheap to run car in the long run.


A grand ish

They are amazing engines.

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

That sounds a shed load of work

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I think it will be!

I think what Im probably going to do rather than trash my really good yellow shell is put the williams engine out of the blue one into it next year, and let the mrs use it with that to get some more practice (she only started doing trackdays a couple of years ago) and then use the blue shell to mock up the conversion, then when I am confident I know how to actually do it properly, start on the yellow one then, rather than go straight at the yellow one and start having to weld back in bits I cut out then decided I want to do different etc.

Will probably chop the front off the blue one when I do it, so that I dont have the whole shell taking up space, just the front end that I actually need in order to do it.

gingeRS

i would be tempted by an mx-5 used to have loads of fun my ex's old one, pokey rwd, convertible (great for vision on track days - but get a hoop) and they can be stripped down to weigh less than 900kg with 130bhp on tap

Chip

iTrader: (3)

MX5 certainly a great option, only downside comapred to hot hatches is that it is a pain in the arse trying to take tools and trackday tyres etc with you.

nevsrevs

chip did you buy that civic local to us? it looks like 1 i was going to look at but i was to late and the lady said it had sold.. 172 imo just sold mine, never had a car that felt so right on track, if you look after them, then they will take some abuse.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I bought it from north london, they all look the same though, as do rover 400s, lol

nevsrevs

yea just thought i had seen that reg befor, might of seen you about in it

Dlatch!

if you can find a good one the 3dr vti civics are cracking and open to serious tuning later with some forced induction.
i would not rate the handing as being up there with the clio but the cracking engine and box make up the difference not to mention the reliability.

also you don't see many around these days would be my top candidate if the clio is off the list.
failing that the gti-6 is a great car too

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Was probably the mrs, she was using it for a few months between selling her mk1 clio and buying the phase 2 mk2 172.

And her mate borrowed it for a month or so recently as well, blonde bird with big chest who works in halfords but I forget her name, so you might have seen it parked there.