Rcjm88

My current engine is up for sale, although I don't really want to sell it, its a lot of money to not sell it.

I was planning on selling my fiesta, but I've recently fallen in love with it again so would still sell my engine if it means I can build another with more power.

Not really looking for boost, so would like to build another screamer on bodies.

I don't know much about the Zetec E so thats why I'm asking here.

With a budget of around 4k what do you think I could achieve? How hard will it be to fit one in a Mk5? I know upper engine mount will need changing and a new one welding in, could I use my IB5 'box? (frp with a LSD) do I need different drive shafts? What clutch would I use?

I'd be looking at forging it, but how does the crank cope? What sort of revs can they take safely? Whats the best cam options for NA? What are the heads like?

Who are the people to go to with these engines?

I don't mind assembling the engine myself to save money, and could probably get the help to fit it in my car too.

Sorry for all the questions, but if I can sell my engine and build another one with a lot more power for not much more money I will seriously consider it.

Cheers,

Rob.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

With the zetec e, just turbo it, much cheaper for the gains! Will take about 250bhp on standard internals (cranks can take like 500bhp), with just a decomp plate, rst manifold, and a t3.

Rcjm88

Dont really want to turbo it though.

Much prefer the noise of bodies and quite happy with the power delivery and high revs of mine.

So thanks, but after info of them in NA form please

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Might aswell keep your engine then, much lighter for one, and I doubt you'd get much more power for the same money. The 2.0's are only 130bhp standard remember.

Rcjm88

This is true, but rigby has seen some nice gains with mild work and a lot more torque than me. Mine is quite highly specced and could push to 200bhp if I wanted to, but nothing really after that!

I'd also consider a Duratec but think that might be a bit more to build

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

I guess, but even much over 200bhp from the 'e' will take a lot of work and money, probably more then your 4k budget, remember you'll have to sort the loom and ecu aswell, which'll cost a bit.

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Black top may be worth considering, as they're pretty plentiful.

Dunnell is a name that seems to come up a lot with aspirated Zetec engines. There was a guy, Andrew Lindley I think, known as Freak Power, who had a 2.1 Zetec on bodies that was making something like 280bhp.

I should think you could keep your box and shafts. There's been a Puma or two with Zetec lumps fitted, so I should think it's basically the same process with the mount.

I agree with Sam though; turbo is much better value. For Ł4k you'd get a lot lot further, and have a much more useable power band, loads of torque, and just a much nicer car to drive IMO.

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Dunnell would be a good starting point with Zetecs:

http://www.dunnellengines.com/zetec_...tionkits_7.php

I've seen an N/A Zetec go to nearly 300bhp but it's a lot of work; Dunnell doesn't take them over 250bhp as at that point he syas it makes more sense to go Duratec.

Depends what kind of power you want/have in mind really but 220bhp or so seems to be the limit of going super expensive, and even to get to that stage isn't cheap.

Rcjm88

I understand what you're saying with going turbo route. But when running more power and torque thats when other things start to die and have to take into consideration to replace.

I know bodies are expensive to buy and wont see as much power, but I think they'd keep me happy. My engine still puts a smile on my face and its only 180bhp. I've spent a lot on it and could push to 200bhp with a head skim and cam change but it means taking my car off the road while I do it and getting the map tweaked.

Where as someone wants to buy my engine and I'd some money to play with to build a new one.

Ideally I think I'd be looking at 240bhp as much fun as 300-350 would be I'd think it would be a little too much and as I said I need to take other things into consideration again. I simply couldn't do a 2.0 budget turbo build, its not me. I'd have to do it right.

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

If you only need a bit more to go to 200bhp, I'd do that.

To be honest, if I was starting from scratch, I'd probably go 2.0 Duratec over a Zetec for an aspirated engine. Seem to respond pretty well.

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

I agree with what you're saying actually, but 240bhp will work out very expensive, more so than the Ł4k you have IMO.

Rcjm88

I really didn't think it would cost that much to get to 240bhp haha

Maybe I'm just a tight arse and managed to build my engine on a decent budget.

What do you reckon I could get with a duratec for my money?

phil_focus

imo for that power level it is not worth spending thousands going n/a so just do a cheap turbo build on a 2l black top. you don't even have to touch the internals so even if it does eventually go bang just slap in a cheap replacement engine.

i've looked into both routes for my 2l focus and n/a route is only worth doing if looking for no more than 190 bhp as that can be done fairly cheap on bike itb's, cams and decent exhaust not counting the management but even then your not far off the cost of a turbo conversion. to get 240bhp n/a out of its going to have to rev very high, ie. 8-9,000 rpm so EVERYTHING will have to be uprated - rods, bolts, pistons, cams, valves and springs, cylinder head, etc, etc. i don't think Ł4,000 is enough to be honest and if it let go its an expensive waste when you could save a lot buy going cheap turbo route and even then blow up 3 or 4 engines for the same money!

i know its nice to do something different and a wild spec n/a zetec would be great but i just don't think its worth the expense compared to other options.

if you really do want to stay n/a then keep what you've got and do what yu can to reach 200bhp if you can and consider some nitrous for use in 4th and 5th down the straights.

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Duractec would be a better option for what you want IMO.

200bhp on a virtually standard engine with throttle bodies is not uncommon from what I hear though look into it. you can pick them up for around a grand, which leaves Ł3k for managment, bodies and fitting it.

Rcjm88

Hmm, thanks all for your input.

I guess the E wasn't the cheaper option I was looking for.

Yea a few Duratec's have been fitted into Fiesta's. If I could manage to come to a deal to keep my Omex 600 I could do it cheaper. (better than buying a new Omex again)

I will speak to ShawSpeed and see what he can do for me.

Thank you.

Rcjm88

Cheers Phil.

I was pretty much thinking the same as mine, just in 2.0 E form. Mine revs to 8400rpm, ported head, HD valves springs, forged rods, forged pistons, Jenvey's, 330cc Injectors, SS5 cams, baffled sump, oil cooler, Omex 600 etc... Its a good spec and maybe I should just push it to 200bhp and be happy (if thats possible)

I have considered Nos, reckon I could run more than a 50shot too.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

what sort of money would you want for your engine set up

TimC

iTrader: (1)

Duratec on bodies is the way forwards for you Mr Mank, get your box rebuilt into the casing of an ST to keep it low geared and it'll be an absolute hoot to drive. Be more torquey then the 1600 and have more top end too.

Davemurphy007

ST170 bottom end (block, crank, rods and pistons - block and crank are same as the boggo 2.0 litre) with either a funky 2.0 litre head or a standard ST170 head + a set of suitably funky NA cams (I believe Cat Cams have just released a set of ITB spec cams with VCT delete for the ST170) - stick on some Jenvey's or an AT Power direct to head ITB kit and you will be well on your way to the 200bhp you want. Wiring loom and ECU will be your main expense but you can either do it cheap on Megasquirt or do it properly on something like a basic OMEX. Keep it below 7.5k revs and you only need rod bolts, go to 8k and you need a better oil pump - 8k+ you'll want to considering lightening and balancing all your rotating components.

ST170 engines are getting very cheap now, the rods and pistons are high(er) comp and vastly improved strengthwise over the boggo 2.0 litre jobbies (which are Mahl pistons anyway), ST170 heads are 'allegedly' better flowing as standard than Cossie YB heads - the biggest pain in the arse is the VCT (which can be blocked off but the inlet cam has a special casting in the head for the VCT pulley) and the management which you'll be needing aftermarket for anyway.

In theory you could use a Focus 1.8 flywheel and clutch to enable mating the engine to your existing IB5 'box but whether it will take it or not is a different matter - certainly the IB5's in the Focus range are piss poor and the 1.8's they are normally fitted to can be tuned enough to give it real problems.

No ideas about installing into a Mk5 Fez but anything's possible I guess. Speak to Will Pedley about 200bhp out of a blacktop Zetec/ST170 engine as he's done a few now plus he can do the custom wiring looms and mapping. He also organised the building of Neil@FastFord's IB5 based gearbox in his 300bhp Mk1 Fez (it's my old one) and that 'seems' to be holding together so could advise you accordingly.

Zetec engines are cheap and plentiful and the bits are pretty much all interchangeable to suit your requirements. They won't make mega figures without massive investment but that's not to say you can't make a fairly potent yet reliable engine using many OE spec parts in them. Whether it's the best route for you is your choice but I wouldn't discount it.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

mtechs v4 ecu set up can run the vvt and they done a standard engine on jenveys at 198bhp and that was with out adjusting the cam timing which has proved to get around 10bhp on an st170.

they supply the kit for Ł1395+vat with everything needed, or fitted and mapped for Ł1850+vat, thats what im going to do, im looking at the above with adjustable cam pullys aswell in a mk3 escort

Rcjm88

It's up for Ł4500.

Think you're right Tim.

The E really isn't how I thought it would be. I didn't realise it need so much more work to get the simular power I have now (although it will have more torque) I expected to see around 210-230bhp in simular spec to mine.

Might just go for a head skim and new cams in mine for now and start building a duratec for it.

Hopefully (fingers crossed) I can get a job again soon and I wont have to sell mine just yet. (interview tuesday )

Escow-Van

Some interesting reading here from Burton's.
http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides.html

There's tons of Duratecs knocking about now, so not really worth bothering with a Zetec. Cosworth sell turnkey Duratecs in a range of forms from 200-300bhp.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Didn't realise you were Mank. Think you should change your name lol.

Rcjm88

Master of disguise!

Didn't my sig give it away? haha

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Thought I recognised the car, but didn't know the plate lol.

RstAaron.

You can buy the st170 lump from my fez... all I ask is you get me a 280bhp cosworth duratec to fill the hole in my engine bay!

tocca

iTrader: (1)

My Zetec E is 195hp. Spec is as follows:

2.0 Bottom End
Ported and Polished Head
Twin 45 Carbs
Newman PH3 Cams
Newman Verniers
Megajolt
4 Branch Manifold

Could get a few more horse power out of her by changing few bits and bobs.. but to get her to say 240hp would be a waste of money! If you want that sort of power just either go Duratec or Turbo..

SiZT

Not correctly, only in wank VTEC style that loads of tuners seem to be doing which is completely the wrong way to use it. Better idea to buy a mk3 2.0 Mondeo for cheap (surely they can be bought for Ł500 now?) than pissing about with Zetec E's in N/A form

Johnny Knoxville

It made over 300 bhp at over 9k rpms and has built another for someone that makes even more all at a high price