massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Saw this on C5 news just now. Also can be found here http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...n-2331149.html

Genuine complaint, or just upset because they pointed out a pretty obvious flaw in their very expensive product

Eigdoog

Bloody hell... Some people are never happy!

Darylc.

iTrader: (1)

bit of both I think

They say they delivered the leaf to top gear with a full "tank" so Jeremy didnt need to "refuel"

But all they were doing is a kind of real world test, which unfortuneatly for the environMENTALists does include recharging the batteries

On radio 2 they had a rep from Nisan and a G-whizz owner lecturing on how great these leccy cars are. Lots of people rang in praising them, but they ha to admit that these were there 2nd cars, so VERY green then

I wouldnt mind the leaf if it wasn't £30K, you can get a real car for that

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

The trick here is to not allow a crap design into production. There's only one way an electric/battery powered car can work, and that's by strapping an alternator to each wheel, so it should never actually NEED to be plugged into the mains.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

You can keep your electric car shite i fookin hate them.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

seeing as they've got the name of one of the cars wrong, i'd not take too much into their "reporting"

Lee1

This bit made me laugh.

"The episode has also been criticized by disabled charities for appearing to show both presenters parking their cars in disabled spaces"

Fucking sad cunts. they probably parked the for a couple of minutes during filming, I doubt anyone needed to use them or they wouldn't of parked there or they would have moved.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

agree with top gear on this one to be fair. In a real world test it proves how shit the electric cars are as a petrol replacement.

Sure if we change our daily routines to fit in proper charging cycles then it might be a usable car but still, it cant do really long range and the big killer, people simply arent prepared to compromise the convienience cars currently offer just for the sake of being green. Otherwise you might as well not have a car if its not convenient.

Bailes1992

I hate electric cars. I get Hybrids, but electric cars I think are silly.
I understand we're running out of fuel but on the other hand I don't belive in Global Warming. The earth temprature changes naturally, all we may be doing is speeding it up.

I'm a firm beliver in Biofuels. In 2005 80% of all Ford Focuses bought in Sweeden are run on Bioethanol.
All diesels can run on WELL MADE biodiesel.
And old Indirect diesels with a good fuel pump can run on straight veg oil.

There is perfect replacements for petrol, there is no need to get rid of the internal combustion engine.

And as for Nissan saying it's not a real world test? How isn't it? You might have to recharge anywhere, that review clearly shows a flaw in places to recharge.

PileOfRust

as what topgear said, the only real answer is hydrogen powered like that honda james drove in america ages ago... its just it may be a little more expensive than petrol but id be more than happy to pay a little more money to drive that rather than a shitty little electric car.

i remember them saying when that seasick steve bloke came on to do a lap in the lacetti, they were talkin about prius's etc and jeremy mentioned that a prius does alot of damage to the envireonment before its even been driven. That steve bloke drives an old chevy truck and even being driven till the truck dies (which it wont ) it wont do as much damage to the envireonment as a prius


or run cars on moonshine

Bailes1992

I do like the sound of Hydrogen, but still not an internal combustion engine is it?
I love the sound of any engine My 1.6 Focus, my old Peugeot 406 TD etc etc.
A car isn't a car without an engine in my opinion.

Also all this nonsense about "No emmisions"?? How is this? Isn't electricity made by burning fossil fuels?

Fiddy

TBH, its not like its going to cost them sales, most Top Gear viewers are petrol heads, and are not going to spend £25K on an electric car, as a fucking fashion statement, to 'show' they care about the enviroment.

£25K - Brand New Focus RS

£25K - Brand New Nissan Leaf

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

has anyone got nissans number ,i want to complain to them for making such a fook ugly car

Oranoco

Electric car = Driven by cunts
Hybrid car = Driven by cunts

Just buy a fucking diesel!!!!!! My missus Clio diesel always see's in excess of 60mpg. Other than being exempt from the Congestion Charge I see no good reason to get one

p17fld

Nissan can't complain by charging 33k for that POS. Horrific design, batteries simply are a massive, stupid idea. 13hrs to recharge

plynchy

Can't see a problem with the electric car being used for what a lot of people actually use cars for, shopping, school run etc etc. No good yet on a 3-400 mile run but it'll come...

As for running a diesel on 100% "well made" bio-diesel, would you like to expand on that?

Bailes1992

Most Diesels can't run on vegtable oil because it's too thick, dosen't atomise properly and if you have a direct injection engine it gums up the piston rings like a fryingpan.
Any diesel can be run on well made bio, thats fact regardless of what anyone else says.
The problem comes with how well it's made. During the proccess of making Biodiesel you use Methanol. Problem is methanol eats seals for breakfast, lunch, dinner and it will go back for supper. You use Sodium Hidroxide to remove the methanol from the fuel.

Someone in a shed making the biodiesel for them selves will perfect the art of making sure all methanol is removed from the biodiesel before it goes anywhere near the car.
Someone who sells it in massive batches out of a warehouse won't which is where the scaremongering stories come from.
There ought to be a set of standards for selling biodiesel that have to be adheard to.

Carlos-Titx

If I keep my thirsty ST for the rest of my life I bet it would still be more economical than that of the production of one of these "green" cars.

RS Grant

iTrader: (1)

In reality, if I needed a car to used to drive a boring commute to work 5 days a week and there was an electric option that looked similar, performed the same and cost roughly the same to buy as the combustion based alternative... then I'd run it as a daily.

Main reason being that it's likely to cost less to run on a daily basis (since petrol is just going to go sky-high) and running a twat-mobile will likely receive benefits and discounts in road tax etc as well... which would allow me to spend more on something fun for the evenings/weekends.

However, as far as I'm aware, there isn't something which ticks all these essential boxes.


Cheers,
Grant

Fiddy

you forgot battery last between 5 - 10 years and costs £7K to replace

plynchy

I work on a lot of facilities that manufacture FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Ester), in it's pure form it's a nasty, highly corrosive acidic product that likes to eat the soles of chemical/oil proof industrial work boots. I'm sure someone making it in small quantities could make it a more engine friendly product, but the fact is it is produced on a massive scale, and thats the shit that goes into everyones diesel cars.

I'd like to see ANY diesel engine last more than a few hours running it at 100% (if they would run at all). It's currently blended into ALL road diesel at 5%, this figure will go up over time as the government dictates, same legislation applies to bio-ethanol into petrol, but I can't quote the percentages for that as I don't know them.

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Exactly what they are designed for .. Daily commute .. So if you worked 2 miles away (4 mile round trip) how often would it need a charge I wonder? Charge it at night for £2.30 ... No road tax? BUT .. Silly 30k .. They will get better ..

A better test would have been the drive to work & back daily in different weather conditions to establish a mean run / charge ratio ..

Bailes1992

Seen several 306 HDi's, a 406 HDi and even stuck a tank in my 406 TD.
Although most the time I just run my TD on vegtable oil.

lukeytheduke

Exacly and on top of that think of how much extra pollution it costs to make these cars if battery only lasts a few years. I can see people buying them then when it comes down to replacing the batterys they'll say fuck that i'l buy a petrol car with 70mpg

plynchy

I'm not sure what you bought, or where from, but it was highly unlikely that it was raw FAME, it's like treacle.

Could have been a higher ratio blend, but whatever, topic diversion going on....

Bailes1992

But biodiesel aint going to be 100% FAME is it? Although I am confused to what it is? Biodiesel generally is fine in any diesel. You remove all the nasty methanol (or atleast it should be) when you make it?

plynchy

I guess you could now label any forecourt diesel as "bio-diesel" as it has 5% bio in it, although Morrisons were marketing a 15% blend I believe.

I see bio-diesel as the FAME, as that what it gets referred to at work.

There's all kinds of different shit gets made into "bio-diesel", animal tallow, rape seed etc etc. It's just a matter of refining and purifying it.

Bailes1992

As said, as far as I know and is the general knowlege over at the veg oil forums, well made biodiesel is fine in any car. I haven't heard of any issues with good biodiesel anyway. And it's usually just as thin as diesel, most the time a little thinner too.

gjh

Don't like electric cars, hydrogen powered ones on the other hand are pretty good IMO.

RstAaron.

Problem with hydrogen is getting it. The energy required to get hydrogen makes it no better than an electric car.

gjh

Ye there's a problem at the minute, but it can't be no worse than digging for oil and turning that into petrol, where there's a will there's a way and all that.

Deano

Bio-ethanol is currently mixed in at 5% too , this is looking to be increased to 20% in a year or two .

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Aye .. You need to charge water with electricity to extract Hydrogen (Add chemicals to stop it sludging up the electrodes) .. Then burn it with oxygen and it produces H20 .. Pure Distilled water would produce Hydrogen & Oxygen. Burn Hydrogen with normal air would work also.

You could have pre-pressurised hydrogen fuel (Dangerous) or you could convert it pre burn but it woulds use more electicity to produce than technology could convert .. Still a few year away .. But MERC have a sprinter that blows out hot water ..

foreigneRS

or if they could improve the technology you could have an electric car powered by a fuel cell running off natural gas or LPG.

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Yeah .. the posibilitys are endless ..

I was told a few year back that the BIG oil companys have influenced the market regarding aternative fuels / electric drive vehicles .. Its a Multi Trillion industry after all ..

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

i cant see councils being prepared to have people trailing electric leads from thier house to thier cars overnight due to "health and bloody safety" as its a trip hazard. And the councils wont fund electric hook ups on the kerb side either...

well i guess at over £30k its only going to be the middle classes who can afford such cars and most middle class folk will have access to a drive/garage/ORP.

NoRubNoDub

i worked on a project with my college lecture a few months ago, pat pending so i cant say much, basicaly the device produced enough H to boost power in a hgv by 25% while also boosting fuel encon by around 35% it also produced almost 0 emissions, it was only the protype and could be improved much further.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

+1. Hydrogen is the most sensible way forward and manufacturers would be far better to concentrate their R&D costs there IMO. It's the most natural element in the universe and the only byproduct is pure water so it's also alot greener than batteries which need electricity in huge quantities will likely ever be.

And who else would pay £30k plus for a humdrum electric car ? You've got to be off your conkers....

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

I used to get biofuel from old chap near me and my astra mk4 ran on it for over 2.5 years. several of my mates are running their cars and vans on it too.

You just need to think what the diesel engine was originally designed for

Bailes1992

Yeh Peanut oil wasen't it?
Then it was coal dust and Rudolf the Red Nosed Diesel engine inventor almost killed hismelf after the coal dust experiment caused the engine to explode

Someone told me if you get a clear bottle mix bit of biodiesel with water and leave it overnight. If the next day the biodiesel is clear it's good and if it's cloudy it's not. Haven't have the chance to try it yet though