CVH Guru's...300hp from 1600cc...your views??
12-02-2005, 01:11 AM
#1
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CVH Guru's...300hp from 1600cc...your views??
Hi peeps, just wondering what you think it would take for a 1600CVH to produce 300hp...at the moment, on my shopping list is:
+.5mm MAHLE pistons
custom length steel rods
new pumps
stage 3 head
EFI setup
T34 turbo (or can one recommend another turbo?)
Mongoose 3" bore exhaust
Pro Alloy intercooler
Kent CVH35 cam
stage 2 g/box
AP Racing clutch
what other big bits am i missing?
does a T34 have to be used or is there a GT series replacement?
will FRST management be adequate for this?
thanx
bassboy
+.5mm MAHLE pistons
custom length steel rods
new pumps
stage 3 head
EFI setup
T34 turbo (or can one recommend another turbo?)
Mongoose 3" bore exhaust
Pro Alloy intercooler
Kent CVH35 cam
stage 2 g/box
AP Racing clutch
what other big bits am i missing?
does a T34 have to be used or is there a GT series replacement?
will FRST management be adequate for this?
thanx
bassboy
12-02-2005, 01:17 AM
#4
It Wasnt Me!
p.s. and a fucking shitload else 
*edit* on a seruious note, that spec above are pretty much the basics, but imo a 1600cvh will never reach a genuine 300bhp@fly. honestly.
*edit* on a seruious note, that spec above are pretty much the basics, but imo a 1600cvh will never reach a genuine 300bhp@fly. honestly.
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12-02-2005, 01:22 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by mattbibs
for starters im guessing more than a stage 3 head!!
bassboy
12-02-2005, 01:30 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh
theres no official stg3+ head cos not many ppl need them. . 
A standard head can flow 250hp (well thats what Gadgets old car did) on EFI and a T3 IIRC so increase the airflow into the head via bigger valves, more fuel also, and a bigger turbo to create more boost...would you not arrive at 280-300hp?
bassboy
12-02-2005, 01:32 AM
#12
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also i forgot to write the flow of the head is important to...i.e the path the air/fuel take into the cylinders which will play a big factor to but say if thats done VERY VERY well....or lets just say i bought a stage 3 head of Karl...is it still a dream??
bassboy
bassboy
12-02-2005, 01:34 AM
#13
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T28 im not too sure....about 24-25psi on a T34 would be good...maybe more if the engine allows....the idea for the custom rods are to reduce the compression ratio lower yet keep as much 'meat' on the piston as possible
things on the EFI side would be like the biggest possible injectors, everything renewed, custom map etc etc
bassboy
things on the EFI side would be like the biggest possible injectors, everything renewed, custom map etc etc
bassboy
12-02-2005, 01:38 AM
#14
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The engine must once again come apart and the fitment of steel con-rods and stronger pistons is now essential.. Coupled with all the modifications carried out up to stage 5 a hybrid Garrett T34 is now fitted with a Cosworth based exhaust housing. A custom exhaust is now required, and coupled with either a larger 5th injector or a 5th and 6th injector the boost is now raised to 25psi. The fitment of an uprated gearbox is now essential. At this level there are many additional minor modifications required to cope with the power but this can be advised at the time. Power levels are now at 300bhp.
taken from Karls site...he also says use a Stage THREE head, decent intercooler, cam, raised rev limiter,lightened and balanced bottom end, steel rods, T34, 25psi boost
so will a stage 3 head do the job or not??
bassboy
taken from Karls site...he also says use a Stage THREE head, decent intercooler, cam, raised rev limiter,lightened and balanced bottom end, steel rods, T34, 25psi boost
so will a stage 3 head do the job or not??
bassboy
12-02-2005, 01:39 AM
#15
It Wasnt Me!
no, that wouldnt be adequate still, i dont know how to explain it as im not that knowledgable but basically NO. and you cant decide what boost until you mapp it, you can aim for a figure to work out what sort of CR u want but i dont think u'll know what boost is best untill map time.
theres a whole host of things missing from that spec you'll need as a base aswell.
theres a whole host of things missing from that spec you'll need as a base aswell.
12-02-2005, 01:44 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh
no, that wouldnt be adequate still, i dont know how to explain it as im not that knowledgable but basically NO. and you cant decide what boost until you mapp it, you can aim for a figure to work out what sort of CR u want but i dont think u'll know what boost is best untill map time.
theres a whole host of things missing from that spec you'll need as a base aswell.
theres a whole host of things missing from that spec you'll need as a base aswell.
the spec i gave was just a general one of the main parts you need...i have listed a turbo, intercooler, box, bottom end plans, head plans and a VERY general fuelling setup - well basically EFI off a FRST
so vrooom...if i decided to go for a ZVH with a 2L bottom end...would i hit the figure then? i remember John hitting 28xbhp cant remember exact figure...was that down to the head not being able to flow enough air or something else?
not a dig by the way..am just generally interested as i have heard a few people talking about 300hp CVH's
bassboy
12-02-2005, 01:49 AM
#18
It Wasnt Me!
Ive heard of 300bhp CVH's too, but they generally fly past in the wind and that's all u hear. . .
Im no expert, far from it, but ive never known on a GENUINE 300bhp CVH, i know of a 268@wheels ZVH which may possibly make more power once its completed, but thats about as much as i can expand on that. I know very little about ZVh's so i cant help on the potential figures sorry mate.
But whatever the spec you use i hpe you get what you want from the engine, i'll let the proper technical people take over from here
Im no expert, far from it, but ive never known on a GENUINE 300bhp CVH, i know of a 268@wheels ZVH which may possibly make more power once its completed, but thats about as much as i can expand on that. I know very little about ZVh's so i cant help on the potential figures sorry mate.
But whatever the spec you use i hpe you get what you want from the engine, i'll let the proper technical people take over from here
12-02-2005, 01:52 AM
#21
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any one got any pics or info about trick manifolds? ive seen the tubular exhaust manifold on karls site...any info about the inlet? or is it a case of TB's?
bassboy
bassboy
good luck. 
12-02-2005, 07:34 AM
#25
A CVH can produce 300bhp with a decent head and engine build.
1597cc with a comp of 8.2:1 T35 with 24psi produced 284bhp on Ants engine. He has taken the head off to replace the std ford gasket for a uprated head gasket which will be able to put up with the stress of high boost. (It was wire rung before)
At the same time he has had the ports matched in flow and size compared to the inlet manifold which has only been matched and not ported.
Ant is now getting the car ready as he will be driving his new car (& engine) to Ibiza in the summer
apart of the www.extremerallies.com. event
When i have finished the work on his engine we are hoping for 300+bhp with a 1600cc and hopefully a new map on dizzyless
HTH
1597cc with a comp of 8.2:1 T35 with 24psi produced 284bhp on Ants engine. He has taken the head off to replace the std ford gasket for a uprated head gasket which will be able to put up with the stress of high boost. (It was wire rung before)
At the same time he has had the ports matched in flow and size compared to the inlet manifold which has only been matched and not ported.
Ant is now getting the car ready as he will be driving his new car (& engine) to Ibiza in the summer
apart of the www.extremerallies.com. event When i have finished the work on his engine we are hoping for 300+bhp with a 1600cc and hopefully a new map on dizzyless
HTH
12-02-2005, 08:20 AM
#28
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Mine was 288bhp. (ZVH)
Head was ported and had wasted stem valves (standard size)
i know i cant decide what boost i can run as every engine is different hence me saying whatever more the engine will allow...but i know CR will be around 7.6 maybe 7.5 but i will do more research into that as i dont know many people running the setup i have just described...
the spec i gave was just a general one of the main parts you need...i have listed a turbo, intercooler, box, bottom end plans, head plans and a VERY general fuelling setup - well basically EFI off a FRST
so vrooom...if i decided to go for a ZVH with a 2L bottom end...would i hit the figure then? i remember John hitting 28xbhp cant remember exact figure...was that down to the head not being able to flow enough air or something else?
not a dig by the way..am just generally interested as i have heard a few people talking about 300hp CVH's
bassboy
Head was ported and had wasted stem valves (standard size)
Originally Posted by bassboy
Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh
no, that wouldnt be adequate still, i dont know how to explain it as im not that knowledgable but basically NO. and you cant decide what boost until you mapp it, you can aim for a figure to work out what sort of CR u want but i dont think u'll know what boost is best untill map time.
theres a whole host of things missing from that spec you'll need as a base aswell.
theres a whole host of things missing from that spec you'll need as a base aswell.
the spec i gave was just a general one of the main parts you need...i have listed a turbo, intercooler, box, bottom end plans, head plans and a VERY general fuelling setup - well basically EFI off a FRST
so vrooom...if i decided to go for a ZVH with a 2L bottom end...would i hit the figure then? i remember John hitting 28xbhp cant remember exact figure...was that down to the head not being able to flow enough air or something else?
not a dig by the way..am just generally interested as i have heard a few people talking about 300hp CVH's
bassboy
12-02-2005, 08:41 AM
#29
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dingy...what sort of advance on the timing do chad, oli run? have they been on a RR or anything to prove they are actually over 300hp?
again, please dont take it as a dig...im just curious as to which route to take...cvh or zetec...as after chatting to chad when i went to see him...he reackons CVH's drive alot better than ZT's
bassboy
again, please dont take it as a dig...im just curious as to which route to take...cvh or zetec...as after chatting to chad when i went to see him...he reackons CVH's drive alot better than ZT's
bassboy
12-02-2005, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt
LOL
a correctly specced cvh head can flow way more than 300hp
cc is irrelevant for max hp
a correctly specced cvh head can flow way more than 300hp
cc is irrelevant for max hp
12-02-2005, 10:03 AM
#39
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going for 300 just be ready for any teething troubles like holed pistons ect at the ceiling limit of hp everythings being pushed to the limit is it worth it? would be nasty to drive on the road id go for better management so i could have 2 maps (enconmy) and (gwaaahn ya fooka) my 1900 at 250 was silly on high boost neaarlly off the road at every bend under torque steer that was 18psi i had it running 10 psi for everyday wich was sweet my next 1 will be 250 and no more unless the suspension mod we are haveing allows it 
12-02-2005, 10:21 AM
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Cpt Scarlett from here series 1 is a 1600 and that produced 290bhp at 1.5bar and 319bhp at 2bar so 300 bhp from a 1600 is achievable, I'm not gonna give his spec as not my place to do it but the car is off the road at the moment having a few more bits done to it so hopefully will see more from it in the next couple of weeks