HGVs on motorway rant . . .
30-06-2011 | 10:29 AM
#81
thats why half of you get your mirrors ''accidently'' knocked off (it dose upset them What a fucking stupid attitude
Seriously. What next? People on foot arent allowed to keep walking on the pavement when you stop?
Bikers are entitled to filter in stationary traffic so if you attempt to block them or make life difficult then you're just being a grade A cunt.
30-06-2011 | 10:56 AM
#82
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: hampshire
What a fucking stupid attitude
Seriously. What next? People on foot arent allowed to keep walking on the pavement when you stop?
Bikers are entitled to filter in stationary traffic so if you attempt to block them or make life difficult then you're just being a grade A cunt.
Seriously. What next? People on foot arent allowed to keep walking on the pavement when you stop?
Bikers are entitled to filter in stationary traffic so if you attempt to block them or make life difficult then you're just being a grade A cunt.
30-06-2011 | 11:04 AM
#83
Sorry your post read like you were stuck in traffic and didnt like people filtering through
Phew!
30-06-2011 | 11:35 AM
#84
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: May 2003
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the national speed limit for a lorry is 60mph on a motorway,regardless of age,so you can not be done for going 60,as there is obviously slight differences in the calibration of each limiter.also,as far as im aware,the tacho can not be used to incriminate you in this way.
however,you are correct,newer lorries are all fitted with a 56mph limiter by law.the 2 laws co exist,but the 56mph limiter law does not supercede the speed limit.
when driving my wagon downhill i regularly exceed 56mph,the tacho brings up a warning on the dash,it does not state that i am breaking the law,merely that there is a tachograph fault.
you are right in that what you are doing is law,but its not the speed limit.because as far as im aware VOSA dont govern the speed limits of the roads.
30-06-2011 | 12:37 PM
#85
cossie fan (unluckerly)
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From: hampshire
you are arguing over separate points mate.
the national speed limit for a lorry is 60mph on a motorway,regardless of age,so you can not be done for going 60,as there is obviously slight differences in the calibration of each limiter.also,as far as im aware,the tacho can not be used to incriminate you in this way.
however,you are correct,newer lorries are all fitted with a 56mph limiter by law.the 2 laws co exist,but the 56mph limiter law does not supercede the speed limit.
when driving my wagon downhill i regularly exceed 56mph,the tacho brings up a warning on the dash,it does not state that i am breaking the law,merely that there is a tachograph fault.
you are right in that what you are doing is law,but its not the speed limit.because as far as im aware VOSA dont govern the speed limits of the roads.
the national speed limit for a lorry is 60mph on a motorway,regardless of age,so you can not be done for going 60,as there is obviously slight differences in the calibration of each limiter.also,as far as im aware,the tacho can not be used to incriminate you in this way.
however,you are correct,newer lorries are all fitted with a 56mph limiter by law.the 2 laws co exist,but the 56mph limiter law does not supercede the speed limit.
when driving my wagon downhill i regularly exceed 56mph,the tacho brings up a warning on the dash,it does not state that i am breaking the law,merely that there is a tachograph fault.
you are right in that what you are doing is law,but its not the speed limit.because as far as im aware VOSA dont govern the speed limits of the roads.
im not arguing that the high way code dose not say it can do 60mph! but its still limited by law to 56mph are you saying that law is just for fun and a not really law lol and how on earth dose your tacho warning you that you doing over 56 mean there is a tacho fault when thats as fast as its meant to go!
Last edited by ajamesc; 30-06-2011 at 12:41 PM.
30-06-2011 | 02:55 PM
#86
you are arguing over separate points mate.
the national speed limit for a lorry is 60mph on a motorway,regardless of age,so you can not be done for going 60,as there is obviously slight differences in the calibration of each limiter.also,as far as im aware,the tacho can not be used to incriminate you in this way.
however,you are correct,newer lorries are all fitted with a 56mph limiter by law.the 2 laws co exist,but the 56mph limiter law does not supercede the speed limit.
when driving my wagon downhill i regularly exceed 56mph,the tacho brings up a warning on the dash,it does not state that i am breaking the law,merely that there is a tachograph fault.
you are right in that what you are doing is law,but its not the speed limit.because as far as im aware VOSA dont govern the speed limits of the roads.
the national speed limit for a lorry is 60mph on a motorway,regardless of age,so you can not be done for going 60,as there is obviously slight differences in the calibration of each limiter.also,as far as im aware,the tacho can not be used to incriminate you in this way.
however,you are correct,newer lorries are all fitted with a 56mph limiter by law.the 2 laws co exist,but the 56mph limiter law does not supercede the speed limit.
when driving my wagon downhill i regularly exceed 56mph,the tacho brings up a warning on the dash,it does not state that i am breaking the law,merely that there is a tachograph fault.
you are right in that what you are doing is law,but its not the speed limit.because as far as im aware VOSA dont govern the speed limits of the roads.
the differences in a ecu limited limiter is less then 1km! and the tacho can be used to incriminate you over speeding and hour offences if found to be infringements take dafs for instance over speeds are recorded in the ecu and cannot be deleted this is because they are legal fault codes just like eas system long term errors! im not arguing that the high way code dose not say it can do 60mph! but its still limited by law to 56mph are you saying that law is just for fun and a not really law lol and how on earth dose your tacho warning you that you doing over 56 mean there is a tacho fault when thats as fast as its meant to go!
im not arguing that the high way code dose not say it can do 60mph! but its still limited by law to 56mph are you saying that law is just for fun and a not really law lol and how on earth dose your tacho warning you that you doing over 56 mean there is a tacho fault when thats as fast as its meant to go!the warning is there for just that reason..... it is also there to stop people bypassing the speed limiter and getting away with doing say 65 or 70. 60mph is a safe and legal speed for HGVs on motorways in accordance with the RTA.
In fact most lorries everyday will go over 56mph when loaded up and going downhill. no speed limiter will stop 40 ton of truck and gravity. And you dont see them being regularly prosecuted by te police or VOSA for speeding either....
30-06-2011 | 03:14 PM
#87
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,798
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From: hampshire
exactly the point ive been trying to make.
VOSA cannot do you for an RTA offence of breaking a speed limit on the basis of tacho evidence. its not certified to the standards required to make it evidentialy valid for the offence of speeding. However it is valid for tachograph and driver hours offences which are covered by completely different legislation and have a different burden of proof.
the warning is there for just that reason..... it is also there to stop people bypassing the speed limiter and getting away with doing say 65 or 70. 60mph is a safe and legal speed for HGVs on motorways in accordance with the RTA.
In fact most lorries everyday will go over 56mph when loaded up and going downhill. no speed limiter will stop 40 ton of truck and gravity. And you dont see them being regularly prosecuted by te police or VOSA for speeding either....
VOSA cannot do you for an RTA offence of breaking a speed limit on the basis of tacho evidence. its not certified to the standards required to make it evidentialy valid for the offence of speeding. However it is valid for tachograph and driver hours offences which are covered by completely different legislation and have a different burden of proof.
the warning is there for just that reason..... it is also there to stop people bypassing the speed limiter and getting away with doing say 65 or 70. 60mph is a safe and legal speed for HGVs on motorways in accordance with the RTA.
In fact most lorries everyday will go over 56mph when loaded up and going downhill. no speed limiter will stop 40 ton of truck and gravity. And you dont see them being regularly prosecuted by te police or VOSA for speeding either....
Last edited by ajamesc; 30-06-2011 at 03:24 PM.
30-06-2011 | 03:47 PM
#88
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: london
speed limits for vehicles 7.5t or over is 60mph, not 56mph
as has already been stated we only have them set at 56mph due to the converson into kph,
i.e 90kph = 56mph.
if you fit and calibrate tachos you should know that it will only flash up with the 'overspeed' warning once the truck has exceeded 60mph,
i pick up speed down hill when frieghted up and aslong as i stay on or below 60 it never comes up.
oh and i just found this online......................
http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Drivin...ed_limits.html
30-06-2011 | 04:03 PM
#89
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: hampshire
speed limits for vehicles 7.5t or over is 60mph, not 56mph
as has already been stated we only have them set at 56mph due to the converson into kph,
i.e 90kph = 56mph.
if you fit and calibrate tachos you should know that it will only flash up with the 'overspeed' warning once the truck has exceeded 60mph,
i pick up speed down hill when frieghted up and aslong as i stay on or below 60 it never comes up.
oh and i just found this online......................
http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Drivin...ed_limits.html
as has already been stated we only have them set at 56mph due to the converson into kph,
i.e 90kph = 56mph.
if you fit and calibrate tachos you should know that it will only flash up with the 'overspeed' warning once the truck has exceeded 60mph,
i pick up speed down hill when frieghted up and aslong as i stay on or below 60 it never comes up.
oh and i just found this online......................
http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Drivin...ed_limits.html
Last edited by ajamesc; 30-06-2011 at 05:06 PM.
30-06-2011 | 04:56 PM
#90
Ive already said how the tacho info is used in a crash..... there is no way you will get an extra criminal road conviction on your license because your tacho showed 60mph rather than 56mph. The difference in speeds is small when it comes to braking for likely accidents. If your driving a lorry dangerously enough to be proven in court at 60mph then you will be dangerous at 56mph.
Tacho evidence alone is not enough to secure convictions under the road traffic act as it does not meet the evidentiary standard required. As i already said......
However tacho rules and construction of use rules use a DIFFERENT balance of proofs for evidence.
Tacho evidence alone is not enough to secure convictions under the road traffic act as it does not meet the evidentiary standard required. As i already said......
However tacho rules and construction of use rules use a DIFFERENT balance of proofs for evidence.
30-06-2011 | 05:06 PM
#91
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: hampshire
Ive already said how the tacho info is used in a crash..... there is no way you will get an extra criminal road conviction on your license because your tacho showed 60mph rather than 56mph. The difference in speeds is small when it comes to braking for likely accidents. If your driving a lorry dangerously enough to be proven in court at 60mph then you will be dangerous at 56mph.
Tacho evidence alone is not enough to secure convictions under the road traffic act as it does not meet the evidentiary standard required. As i already said......
However tacho rules and construction of use rules use a DIFFERENT balance of proofs for evidence.
Tacho evidence alone is not enough to secure convictions under the road traffic act as it does not meet the evidentiary standard required. As i already said......
However tacho rules and construction of use rules use a DIFFERENT balance of proofs for evidence.
Last edited by ajamesc; 30-06-2011 at 05:13 PM.
30-06-2011 | 05:29 PM
#92
your not reading what i wrote.....
im sure the vosa man could do you for bypassing a speed limiter or a tacho offence.... but that is unrelated to the accident.
As said, the speed limit is 60 not 56mph, so a officer judging if your speed was excessive will be considering if your speed was excessive in relation to the speed limit and the prevailing circumstances. A tacho is a useful guide to the vehicles speed at the time. it alone is not relied on for accident investigation. they would also judge other evidence such as braking distances, skid marks etc etc.
as said, limited vehicles can and will do over 56 without fiddling the tacho so the 56mph issue is one for the vosa man to worry about and justify his wage, not the accident investigation.
sure if the guys a cunt and had been drivng 20 hours and regularly broke driver hours etc the tacho evidence can be used to back up the stuff in court, but thats a rare situation and again proving tiredness does not need tacho evidence nor is tacho evidence enough on its own to convict for death by dangerous etc.
im sure the vosa man could do you for bypassing a speed limiter or a tacho offence.... but that is unrelated to the accident.
As said, the speed limit is 60 not 56mph, so a officer judging if your speed was excessive will be considering if your speed was excessive in relation to the speed limit and the prevailing circumstances. A tacho is a useful guide to the vehicles speed at the time. it alone is not relied on for accident investigation. they would also judge other evidence such as braking distances, skid marks etc etc.
as said, limited vehicles can and will do over 56 without fiddling the tacho so the 56mph issue is one for the vosa man to worry about and justify his wage, not the accident investigation.
sure if the guys a cunt and had been drivng 20 hours and regularly broke driver hours etc the tacho evidence can be used to back up the stuff in court, but thats a rare situation and again proving tiredness does not need tacho evidence nor is tacho evidence enough on its own to convict for death by dangerous etc.
30-06-2011 | 06:31 PM
#94
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,798
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From: hampshire
your not reading what i wrote.....
im sure the vosa man could do you for bypassing a speed limiter or a tacho offence.... but that is unrelated to the accident.
As said, the speed limit is 60 not 56mph, so a officer judging if your speed was excessive will be considering if your speed was excessive in relation to the speed limit and the prevailing circumstances. A tacho is a useful guide to the vehicles speed at the time. it alone is not relied on for accident investigation. they would also judge other evidence such as braking distances, skid marks etc etc.
as said, limited vehicles can and will do over 56 without fiddling the tacho so the 56mph issue is one for the vosa man to worry about and justify his wage, not the accident investigation.
sure if the guys a cunt and had been drivng 20 hours and regularly broke driver hours etc the tacho evidence can be used to back up the stuff in court, but thats a rare situation and again proving tiredness does not need tacho evidence nor is tacho evidence enough on its own to convict for death by dangerous etc.
im sure the vosa man could do you for bypassing a speed limiter or a tacho offence.... but that is unrelated to the accident.
As said, the speed limit is 60 not 56mph, so a officer judging if your speed was excessive will be considering if your speed was excessive in relation to the speed limit and the prevailing circumstances. A tacho is a useful guide to the vehicles speed at the time. it alone is not relied on for accident investigation. they would also judge other evidence such as braking distances, skid marks etc etc.
as said, limited vehicles can and will do over 56 without fiddling the tacho so the 56mph issue is one for the vosa man to worry about and justify his wage, not the accident investigation.
sure if the guys a cunt and had been drivng 20 hours and regularly broke driver hours etc the tacho evidence can be used to back up the stuff in court, but thats a rare situation and again proving tiredness does not need tacho evidence nor is tacho evidence enough on its own to convict for death by dangerous etc.
Last edited by ajamesc; 30-06-2011 at 06:33 PM.
30-06-2011 | 08:42 PM
#96
PassionFord Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
From: cornwall
bollocks
the speed limit on motorways for HGV's IS 60mph. you remove your limiter and do 60, or do 60mph down a hill and it is simply not illegal under the RTA.
they could not do you for speeding. older trucks without speed limiters can and will do 60mph.
construction and use regulations are different to road traffic act....
you cannot get points on your license for doing 60mph in a truck. You could however be fined by VOSA cunts if they could prove you removed/bypassed the limiter.
the speed limit on motorways for HGV's IS 60mph. you remove your limiter and do 60, or do 60mph down a hill and it is simply not illegal under the RTA.
they could not do you for speeding. older trucks without speed limiters can and will do 60mph.
construction and use regulations are different to road traffic act....
you cannot get points on your license for doing 60mph in a truck. You could however be fined by VOSA cunts if they could prove you removed/bypassed the limiter.
30-06-2011 | 08:47 PM
#97
you just dont get it ajamessc. you seem completely unable to see the difference between the two types of law.
speed limiters and ANYTHING to do with them are governed by the construction and use legislation
speed limits, dangerous driving etc is covered by the the road traffic act....
tacho laws are covered by construction and use, EU directives and passenger and goods vehicles recording equipment regulations...
All are different laws with different offences with different balances of proof/standards of evidence..
you persistantly seem to think that a 56mph speed limiter automatically implies a 56mph speed limit, and thats simply not the case.
speed limiters and ANYTHING to do with them are governed by the construction and use legislation
speed limits, dangerous driving etc is covered by the the road traffic act....
tacho laws are covered by construction and use, EU directives and passenger and goods vehicles recording equipment regulations...
All are different laws with different offences with different balances of proof/standards of evidence..
you persistantly seem to think that a 56mph speed limiter automatically implies a 56mph speed limit, and thats simply not the case.
30-06-2011 | 09:14 PM
#99
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,798
Likes: 434
From: hampshire
you just dont get it ajamessc. you seem completely unable to see the difference between the two types of law.
speed limiters and ANYTHING to do with them are governed by the construction and use legislation
speed limits, dangerous driving etc is covered by the the road traffic act....
tacho laws are covered by construction and use, EU directives and passenger and goods vehicles recording equipment regulations...
All are different laws with different offences with different balances of proof/standards of evidence..
you persistantly seem to think that a 56mph speed limiter automatically implies a 56mph speed limit, and thats simply not the case.
speed limiters and ANYTHING to do with them are governed by the construction and use legislation
speed limits, dangerous driving etc is covered by the the road traffic act....
tacho laws are covered by construction and use, EU directives and passenger and goods vehicles recording equipment regulations...
All are different laws with different offences with different balances of proof/standards of evidence..
you persistantly seem to think that a 56mph speed limiter automatically implies a 56mph speed limit, and thats simply not the case.
30-06-2011 | 09:15 PM
#100
PassionFord Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
From: cornwall
you just dont get it ajamessc. you seem completely unable to see the difference between the two types of law.
speed limiters and ANYTHING to do with them are governed by the construction and use legislation
speed limits, dangerous driving etc is covered by the the road traffic act....
tacho laws are covered by construction and use, EU directives and passenger and goods vehicles recording equipment regulations...
All are different laws with different offences with different balances of proof/standards of evidence..
you persistantly seem to think that a 56mph speed limiter automatically implies a 56mph speed limit, and thats simply not the case.
speed limiters and ANYTHING to do with them are governed by the construction and use legislation
speed limits, dangerous driving etc is covered by the the road traffic act....
tacho laws are covered by construction and use, EU directives and passenger and goods vehicles recording equipment regulations...
All are different laws with different offences with different balances of proof/standards of evidence..
you persistantly seem to think that a 56mph speed limiter automatically implies a 56mph speed limit, and thats simply not the case.
30-06-2011 | 11:19 PM
#101
left hooker your missing the point. the "national speed limit" varies for type of vehicle and always has done for various reasons. No one is disputing that.
the fact is the national speed limit for a HGV on a motorway is 60mph..... yet speed limiters are set at 56mph. it is NOT a speeding offence under the RTA to do 60mph on a motorway in a HGV as you are within the national speed limit for the type of vehicle and road.. that is a fact written into law.
but it is also a fact that a lorry doing 60mph on a motorway is likely to be breaking the regulations relating to speed limiters, namely EU directives incorporated into the construction and use regulations.
however, a minor construction and use offence is NOT speeding... its a construction and use offence
some people cannot see that distinction.
the fact is the national speed limit for a HGV on a motorway is 60mph..... yet speed limiters are set at 56mph. it is NOT a speeding offence under the RTA to do 60mph on a motorway in a HGV as you are within the national speed limit for the type of vehicle and road.. that is a fact written into law.
but it is also a fact that a lorry doing 60mph on a motorway is likely to be breaking the regulations relating to speed limiters, namely EU directives incorporated into the construction and use regulations.
however, a minor construction and use offence is NOT speeding... its a construction and use offence
some people cannot see that distinction.
01-07-2011 | 07:28 AM
#102
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,798
Likes: 434
From: hampshire
left hooker your missing the point. the "national speed limit" varies for type of vehicle and always has done for various reasons. No one is disputing that.
the fact is the national speed limit for a HGV on a motorway is 60mph..... yet speed limiters are set at 56mph. it is NOT a speeding offence under the RTA to do 60mph on a motorway in a HGV as you are within the national speed limit for the type of vehicle and road.. that is a fact written into law.
but it is also a fact that a lorry doing 60mph on a motorway is likely to be breaking the regulations relating to speed limiters, namely EU directives incorporated into the construction and use regulations.
however, a minor construction and use offence is NOT speeding... its a construction and use offence
some people cannot see that distinction.
the fact is the national speed limit for a HGV on a motorway is 60mph..... yet speed limiters are set at 56mph. it is NOT a speeding offence under the RTA to do 60mph on a motorway in a HGV as you are within the national speed limit for the type of vehicle and road.. that is a fact written into law.
but it is also a fact that a lorry doing 60mph on a motorway is likely to be breaking the regulations relating to speed limiters, namely EU directives incorporated into the construction and use regulations.
however, a minor construction and use offence is NOT speeding... its a construction and use offence
some people cannot see that distinction.
Last edited by ajamesc; 01-07-2011 at 07:33 AM.
01-07-2011 | 06:15 PM
#103
if the copper knows the right codes to put on the ticket for a construction and use offence relating to speed limiters then i would be surprised usually they just call the vosa man for that. I doubt most traffic coppers have the mechanical knowledge to check speed limiter devices on trucks.
if a traffic officer issued a ticket for speeding of say 59mph in a 60 limit the central ticket office would likely pick it up as invalid and it would certainly be cancelled with a letter to the ticket office. It would stand no chance of sticking in court.
usually they just call the vosa man for that. I doubt most traffic coppers have the mechanical knowledge to check speed limiter devices on trucks.if a traffic officer issued a ticket for speeding of say 59mph in a 60 limit the central ticket office would likely pick it up as invalid and it would certainly be cancelled with a letter to the ticket office. It would stand no chance of sticking in court.
01-07-2011 | 06:27 PM
#104
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,798
Likes: 434
From: hampshire
if the copper knows the right codes to put on the ticket for a construction and use offence relating to speed limiters then i would be surprised usually they just call the vosa man for that. I doubt most traffic coppers have the mechanical knowledge to check speed limiter devices on trucks.
if a traffic officer issued a ticket for speeding of say 59mph in a 60 limit the central ticket office would likely pick it up as invalid and it would certainly be cancelled with a letter to the ticket office. It would stand no chance of sticking in court.
usually they just call the vosa man for that. I doubt most traffic coppers have the mechanical knowledge to check speed limiter devices on trucks.if a traffic officer issued a ticket for speeding of say 59mph in a 60 limit the central ticket office would likely pick it up as invalid and it would certainly be cancelled with a letter to the ticket office. It would stand no chance of sticking in court.
as at the end of the they are both laws and the limiter was brought out after the high way code which is out dated in many ways was written
01-07-2011 | 06:57 PM
#105
highway code and speeding laws have been regularly updated to include latest leglislation.
as i said before, speed limiter and tacho offences are seperate and mutually exclusive to speeding under the RTA.
sure if your doing 90 then you are both in breach of construction and use AND RTA.
i can see why the average guy would see it is a grey area and that 56mph is an implied speedlimit but in law its what is specifically written that is key and what will stand up in court if you have the right representation. And what is specifically written is that the speed limit is 60mph.
as i said before, speed limiter and tacho offences are seperate and mutually exclusive to speeding under the RTA.
sure if your doing 90 then you are both in breach of construction and use AND RTA.
i can see why the average guy would see it is a grey area and that 56mph is an implied speedlimit but in law its what is specifically written that is key and what will stand up in court if you have the right representation. And what is specifically written is that the speed limit is 60mph.
01-07-2011 | 08:24 PM
#106
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 708
Likes: 4
From: sunny ibiza
highway code and speeding laws have been regularly updated to include latest leglislation.
as i said before, speed limiter and tacho offences are seperate and mutually exclusive to speeding under the RTA.
sure if your doing 90 then you are both in breach of construction and use AND RTA.
i can see why the average guy would see it is a grey area and that 56mph is an implied speedlimit but in law its what is specifically written that is key and what will stand up in court if you have the right representation. And what is specifically written is that the speed limit is 60mph.
as i said before, speed limiter and tacho offences are seperate and mutually exclusive to speeding under the RTA.
sure if your doing 90 then you are both in breach of construction and use AND RTA.
i can see why the average guy would see it is a grey area and that 56mph is an implied speedlimit but in law its what is specifically written that is key and what will stand up in court if you have the right representation. And what is specifically written is that the speed limit is 60mph.
Last edited by Nick 172 Sport; 01-07-2011 at 08:25 PM.
02-07-2011 | 12:24 AM
#109
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,798
Likes: 434
From: hampshire
highway code and speeding laws have been regularly updated to include latest leglislation.
as i said before, speed limiter and tacho offences are seperate and mutually exclusive to speeding under the RTA.
sure if your doing 90 then you are both in breach of construction and use AND RTA.
i can see why the average guy would see it is a grey area and that 56mph is an implied speedlimit but in law its what is specifically written that is key and what will stand up in court if you have the right representation. And what is specifically written is that the speed limit is 60mph.
as i said before, speed limiter and tacho offences are seperate and mutually exclusive to speeding under the RTA.
sure if your doing 90 then you are both in breach of construction and use AND RTA.
i can see why the average guy would see it is a grey area and that 56mph is an implied speedlimit but in law its what is specifically written that is key and what will stand up in court if you have the right representation. And what is specifically written is that the speed limit is 60mph.
Last edited by ajamesc; 02-07-2011 at 12:35 AM.
02-07-2011 | 12:34 AM
#110
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,798
Likes: 434
From: hampshire
and yes you are right coming from some one who dose tachos they are meant to over speed warning at 56! as that is all you are meant to be doing!
02-07-2011 | 03:55 AM
#111
some sections of acts
that act was last updated in 2010 so no 56mph has not been "omitted" while awaiting since speed limiters were introduced for a significant amendment.
the government can and will amend a single line of text in that act as needs be as they have done with other categorys of vehicle.
so the speed limit on a motorway for a HGV over 7.5 ton IS 60mph FACT.
also note this:
the government has the power should they so wish to change the speed limit for post speed limiter lorries to 56mph by rights listed at section 3 above. however they have chosen not to and there is no submitted proposed orders or legislation for doing so.
so clearly the government have chosen NOT to change the limits despite clearly having the ability to do so. i wonder why that is....
feel free if you wish to read the legislation in detail further but note how nothing is mentioned about speed limiters.....
Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
SCHEDULE 6E+W+S Speed Limits for Vehicles of Certain Classes
Part IE+W+S Vehicles Fitted with Pneumatic Tyres on all Wheels(see application provisions below the following Table)
Class of Vehicle ................................. ........................... ..................... ........ ..................Maximum speed (in mph) while vehicle is being driven on:
....................... ................................... ......... ............ ................................ .....................(a) M'way (b) Dual c'way (c) Other road
(b) (i) an articulated vehicle having a maximum laden weight exceeding 7·5 tonnes, ...... ....................60mph.......... 50mph ........ 40mph
(ii) a motor vehicle having a maximum laden weight exceeding 7·5 tonnes and not drawing a trailer, or
(iii) a motor vehicle drawing one trailer where the aggregate maximum laden weight of the motor vehicle and the trailer exceeds 7·5 tonnes
SCHEDULE 6E+W+S Speed Limits for Vehicles of Certain Classes
Part IE+W+S Vehicles Fitted with Pneumatic Tyres on all Wheels(see application provisions below the following Table)
Class of Vehicle ................................. ........................... ..................... ........ ..................Maximum speed (in mph) while vehicle is being driven on:
....................... ................................... ......... ............ ................................ .....................(a) M'way (b) Dual c'way (c) Other road
(b) (i) an articulated vehicle having a maximum laden weight exceeding 7·5 tonnes, ...... ....................60mph.......... 50mph ........ 40mph
(ii) a motor vehicle having a maximum laden weight exceeding 7·5 tonnes and not drawing a trailer, or
(iii) a motor vehicle drawing one trailer where the aggregate maximum laden weight of the motor vehicle and the trailer exceeds 7·5 tonnes
the government can and will amend a single line of text in that act as needs be as they have done with other categorys of vehicle.
so the speed limit on a motorway for a HGV over 7.5 ton IS 60mph FACT.
also note this:
Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
86 Speed limits for particular classes of vehicles.E+W+S
(1)It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle of any class on a road at a speed greater than the speed specified in Schedule 6 to this Act as the maximum speed in relation to a vehicle of that class.
(2)Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, the Secretary of State may by regulations vary, subject to such conditions as may be specified in the regulations, the provisions of that Schedule.
(3)Regulations under this section may make different provision as respects the same class of vehicles in different circumstances.
86 Speed limits for particular classes of vehicles.E+W+S
(1)It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle of any class on a road at a speed greater than the speed specified in Schedule 6 to this Act as the maximum speed in relation to a vehicle of that class.
(2)Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, the Secretary of State may by regulations vary, subject to such conditions as may be specified in the regulations, the provisions of that Schedule.
(3)Regulations under this section may make different provision as respects the same class of vehicles in different circumstances.
so clearly the government have chosen NOT to change the limits despite clearly having the ability to do so. i wonder why that is....
feel free if you wish to read the legislation in detail further but note how nothing is mentioned about speed limiters.....
Last edited by Psycho Warren; 02-07-2011 at 04:27 AM.
02-07-2011 | 04:27 AM
#112
but then from the other side ( the one who got hit in an accident ) representation says to the judge regardless if the high way code says a hgv can do 60 mph his truck is limited by law to 56 mph and as a professional driver he knows this! and whos responsibility it is to drive with in the law he was driveing at over the speed limit his truck is set to by law when he hit the car in front and killed 2 people! ( would this still not stand in court in your eyes if he was only doing 59 mph lol i think you are very wrong '' and when i say doing 90 i mean 90kph! as trucks are in kph not mph and 90kph is 56mph!
and to be pedantic "he was driving over the speed limit his truck is set to" is irrelevant to speeding laws and dangerous driving laws etc as below:
Road Traffic Act 1988
Meaning of dangerous driving.E+W+S
(1)For the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above a person is to be regarded as driving dangerously if (and, subject to subsection (2) below, only if)—
(a)the way he drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver, and
(b)it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.
(2)A person is also to be regarded as driving dangerously for the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous.
(3)In subsections (1) and (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of those subsections what would be expected of, or obvious to, a competent and careful driver in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.
(4)In determining for the purposes of subsection (2) above the state of a vehicle, regard may be had to anything attached to or carried on or in it and to the manner in which it is attached or carried.
Meaning of dangerous driving.E+W+S
(1)For the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above a person is to be regarded as driving dangerously if (and, subject to subsection (2) below, only if)—
(a)the way he drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver, and
(b)it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.
(2)A person is also to be regarded as driving dangerously for the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous.
(3)In subsections (1) and (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of those subsections what would be expected of, or obvious to, a competent and careful driver in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.
(4)In determining for the purposes of subsection (2) above the state of a vehicle, regard may be had to anything attached to or carried on or in it and to the manner in which it is attached or carried.
nothing is mentioned again about speed limiters
nor does it mention "professional drivers", after all only lorry drivers and some car drivers will be aware of speed limiters and tacho rules.. so clearly only some "competant and careful driver"'s are aware that newer lorries will only go over 56mph on steep hills when loaded up.nothing there implies or states that driving between 56mph and 60mph is dangerous......
and how can you claim that for a professional driver, the very act of being over 56mph is dangerous when similar weight vehicles older than the speed limiter rules CAN do 60mph legally?? you cant......
obviously subject to road conditions and traffic, you can be done for dangerous driving below the speed limit... but thats not the arguement here ....
02-07-2011 | 08:39 AM
#114
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,772
Likes: 86
From: Nottingham
Dealing with the existing loads moved overnight.
If all loads were moved overnight then far more people would have to work shifts,
Except there are plenty of places that due to planning restrictions, usually when there are houses and flats nearby, can't receive deliveries late or overnight or weekends.
.
If all loads were moved overnight then far more people would have to work shifts,
Except there are plenty of places that due to planning restrictions, usually when there are houses and flats nearby, can't receive deliveries late or overnight or weekends.
.
22-10-2011 | 10:08 AM
#115
Virgin
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Peterboro
exactly the point ive been trying to make.
VOSA cannot do you for an RTA offence of breaking a speed limit on the basis of tacho evidence. its not certified to the standards required to make it evidentialy valid for the offence of speeding. However it is valid for tachograph and driver hours offences which are covered by completely different legislation and have a different burden of proof.
the warning is there for just that reason..... it is also there to stop people bypassing the speed limiter and getting away with doing say 65 or 70. 60mph is a safe and legal speed for HGVs on motorways in accordance with the RTA.
In fact most lorries everyday will go over 56mph when loaded up and going downhill. no speed limiter will stop 40 ton of truck and gravity. And you dont see them being regularly prosecuted by te police or VOSA for speeding either....
VOSA cannot do you for an RTA offence of breaking a speed limit on the basis of tacho evidence. its not certified to the standards required to make it evidentialy valid for the offence of speeding. However it is valid for tachograph and driver hours offences which are covered by completely different legislation and have a different burden of proof.
the warning is there for just that reason..... it is also there to stop people bypassing the speed limiter and getting away with doing say 65 or 70. 60mph is a safe and legal speed for HGVs on motorways in accordance with the RTA.
In fact most lorries everyday will go over 56mph when loaded up and going downhill. no speed limiter will stop 40 ton of truck and gravity. And you dont see them being regularly prosecuted by te police or VOSA for speeding either....
Ive recently come back from the States where I had to take a test to drive trucks /cars unlike here, trucks are either limited to 10 mph below the car speed limit or on most interstates allowed to keep up with the flow of traffic in some cases 80 mph, I found that driving a truck there was a lot easier, as you did not have the attitude of having to get in front from car drivers, I have given up driving trucks in the Uk due to the stupidity of the 40 mph limit on single carriageway roads and the resulting head ons from cars having to get round a rolling road block, a sensible speed limit and proper road engineering is part of the problem and the other being forign drivers being allowed to carry on using their country of origin licences
22-10-2011 | 11:48 AM
#116
Advanced PassionFord User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 9
From: N Yorks
That's the whole point. There shouldn't be anyone in that lane at that point they should have already moved over into the other lane, but no idiots insist on bombing up the outside lane as fast as possible right to the last 10yards trying to cut up anyone and everyone and causing mayhem, even accidents just to save queuing like the rest of us.
The lorries tend to block the lane like that (but normally earlier) to force everyone to move over earlier and keep the traffic flowing better.
Are they entitiled? Or do they just think they have a god given right? They seem to 'filter' everywhere even though filtering is just overtaking or undertaking by a different name. Then they moan like a bitch when they filter past a junction and get knocked off and run over at a junction by a car pulling out, when another car lets them even though it says in the highway code don't overtake at junctions.
Last edited by Fast Guy; 22-10-2011 at 11:55 AM.
22-10-2011 | 12:05 PM
#117
I've got a lot of respect for lorry drivers to be honest, but the dual carriageway thing really winds me up.
Fair enough, it must be really frustrating to know that your being held up by 1mph so you obviously want to get past. But it's even more frustrating for me knowing i can go considerably faster and it's taking you 6 years to overtake.
If theres nothing else on the road or you can pass quickly then by all means go for it. Otherwise get out of my fucking lane!
Fair enough, it must be really frustrating to know that your being held up by 1mph so you obviously want to get past. But it's even more frustrating for me knowing i can go considerably faster and it's taking you 6 years to overtake.
If theres nothing else on the road or you can pass quickly then by all means go for it. Otherwise get out of my fucking lane!
22-10-2011 | 02:32 PM
#118
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 21
From: whitstable, kent
Dealing with the existing loads moved overnight.
If all loads were moved overnight then far more people would have to work shifts,
Except there are plenty of places that due to planning restrictions, usually when there are houses and flats nearby, can't receive deliveries late or overnight or weekends.
.
If all loads were moved overnight then far more people would have to work shifts,
Except there are plenty of places that due to planning restrictions, usually when there are houses and flats nearby, can't receive deliveries late or overnight or weekends.
.
22-10-2011 | 03:02 PM
#119
C**t
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,955
Likes: 261
From: Norn Iron
and going into london overnight is a nightmare, the routing for trucks over night is downright stupid, they send you miles out your way, waste gallons upon gallons of diesel to get to your delivery, and if you get seen off route you get big fine, the routes don't make any sence, and they don't even let you use some main roads going in, the london truck ban is a joke
22-10-2011 | 04:49 PM
#120
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,807
Likes: 0
From: south wales, swansea
Haven't read it all but one thing I dont get and it seriously bugs me is why EVERY HGV driver feels they have to continuously flash you as if to say "yes,you can come in MY lane".
It's not your fucking lane,I'm doing 20mph more than you so I'll pull into the lane when the fuck I want.
Oh and heaven forbid you don't flash your indicators to acknowledge it,that usually results in 4 miles of main beam flashing.
HOWEVER
Easily the WORST drivers on the road are these new types who drive down the motorway at 55mph behind lorries,presumably to save fuel?
They seem to be doing it in newer cars a lot as well,I spotted a guy in a 535d doing it last night,geek with glasses,then a couple in newish golfs,all diesel.
Do they really value their time that little that by spending an extra 2hrs on the motorway to save about £7 on fuel.
Always seems to be man in passenger seat,woman driving?what the fuck is all that about?
Get a backbone!!!
It's not your fucking lane,I'm doing 20mph more than you so I'll pull into the lane when the fuck I want.
Oh and heaven forbid you don't flash your indicators to acknowledge it,that usually results in 4 miles of main beam flashing.
HOWEVER
Easily the WORST drivers on the road are these new types who drive down the motorway at 55mph behind lorries,presumably to save fuel?
They seem to be doing it in newer cars a lot as well,I spotted a guy in a 535d doing it last night,geek with glasses,then a couple in newish golfs,all diesel.
Do they really value their time that little that by spending an extra 2hrs on the motorway to save about £7 on fuel.
Always seems to be man in passenger seat,woman driving?what the fuck is all that about?
Get a backbone!!!