most lusted after carbon fibre piece :)
20-03-2011, 02:30 AM
#1
15000
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: birmingham
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
most lusted after carbon fibre piece :)
Dying to get the magic weave on my st170.... for me id like carbon fog light surrounds, but alas cost a fortune 
. what would be your dream carbon fibre part be for your car? 
. what would be your dream carbon fibre part be for your car?
20-03-2011, 02:34 AM
#3
15000
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: birmingham
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
imagine the cost !! 
i wouldnt mind a nice grill surround either come to think of it. and maybe the centre console gear surround like the rs
i wouldnt mind a nice grill surround either come to think of it. and maybe the centre console gear surround like the rs
Last edited by ste 170; 20-03-2011 at 02:41 AM.
Trending Topics
20-03-2011, 10:04 AM
#17
20K+ Super Poster.
20-03-2011, 10:06 AM
#19
20K+ Super Poster.
tabetha
20-03-2011, 10:29 AM
#20
10K+ Poster!!
Carbon fibre wide arches would be my choice.
20-03-2011, 12:19 PM
#23
15000
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: birmingham
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
21-03-2011, 03:21 AM
#25
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: @ home
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
21-03-2011, 04:42 AM
#26
and had the very best of everything including mad spaceframe. and insane spec BDT. @tabethathe best bodge ive seen was one company curing prepreg under vacuum and heat in a home made composites oven made from insulation blocks with a space heater in it
surely the whole point of going to the extra expense of using pre-preg in the first place is taking advantage of the ultimate strength that properly heat, vac AND autoclave curing can achieve.
Maybe some companies have customers who just like being able to say "i got pre-preg" even though its not been cured in the best way possible. But then i guess 99.9% of people dont realise that pre-preg is just carbon fabric with the resin already infused in it in the correct ratios and that the best performance comes from the best materials AND cure process combined. A bit like those who have a carbon skin but e-glass for the rest of the laminate.
I reckon strip down a bare shell into its individual pressed metal panels as it was before welding in factory and remake each panel in carbon/kevlar then rebuild it bonding it together. reckon it would be just as strong as the original panels if not stronger but obviously massively lighter.
21-03-2011, 07:37 AM
#27
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunny Italy
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I reckon strip down a bare shell into its individual pressed metal panels as it was before welding in factory and remake each panel in carbon/kevlar then rebuild it bonding it together. reckon it would be just as strong as the original panels if not stronger but obviously massively lighter.
Wouldn't ever trust it to be cheap, the carbon road car tubs I've seen were priced at something between Ł60K & Ł80K, though that is for a build to order factory spare so usual spares price inflation probably applies.
21-03-2011, 08:17 AM
#28
yeah but he is nuts and had the very best of everything including mad spaceframe. and insane spec BDT.
@tabetha
the best bodge ive seen was one company curing prepreg under vacuum and heat in a home made composites oven made from insulation blocks with a space heater in it
surely the whole point of going to the extra expense of using pre-preg in the first place is taking advantage of the ultimate strength that properly heat, vac AND autoclave curing can achieve.
Maybe some companies have customers who just like being able to say "i got pre-preg" even though its not been cured in the best way possible. But then i guess 99.9% of people dont realise that pre-preg is just carbon fabric with the resin already infused in it in the correct ratios and that the best performance comes from the best materials AND cure process combined. A bit like those who have a carbon skin but e-glass for the rest of the laminate.
well its much cheaper than investing in an autoclave!!
I reckon strip down a bare shell into its individual pressed metal panels as it was before welding in factory and remake each panel in carbon/kevlar then rebuild it bonding it together. reckon it would be just as strong as the original panels if not stronger but obviously massively lighter.
and had the very best of everything including mad spaceframe. and insane spec BDT. @tabethathe best bodge ive seen was one company curing prepreg under vacuum and heat in a home made composites oven made from insulation blocks with a space heater in it
surely the whole point of going to the extra expense of using pre-preg in the first place is taking advantage of the ultimate strength that properly heat, vac AND autoclave curing can achieve.
Maybe some companies have customers who just like being able to say "i got pre-preg" even though its not been cured in the best way possible. But then i guess 99.9% of people dont realise that pre-preg is just carbon fabric with the resin already infused in it in the correct ratios and that the best performance comes from the best materials AND cure process combined. A bit like those who have a carbon skin but e-glass for the rest of the laminate.
well its much cheaper than investing in an autoclave!!
I reckon strip down a bare shell into its individual pressed metal panels as it was before welding in factory and remake each panel in carbon/kevlar then rebuild it bonding it together. reckon it would be just as strong as the original panels if not stronger but obviously massively lighter.
21-03-2011, 08:26 AM
#29
I reckon strip down a bare shell into its individual pressed metal panels as it was before welding in factory and remake each panel in carbon/kevlar then rebuild it bonding it together. reckon it would be just as strong as the original panels if not stronger but obviously massively lighter.
Wouldn't be a very good way of doing it from a structural viewpoint, you can do replacement skins easily enough in something like ZPREG but for a chassis you'd want a proper tub designed from scratch. It would definitely be stronger and would probably be easier to put together too.
Wouldn't ever trust it to be cheap, the carbon road car tubs I've seen were priced at something between Ł60K & Ł80K, though that is for a build to order factory spare so usual spares price inflation probably applies.
Wouldn't ever trust it to be cheap, the carbon road car tubs I've seen were priced at something between Ł60K & Ł80K, though that is for a build to order factory spare so usual spares price inflation probably applies.
21-03-2011, 08:37 AM
#30
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've made my own carbon parts in various ways, a simple vac bag and heated it to 70-80degrees and it gave really good results. To be honest, the results jut vac bagged without the heat were only marginally worse using the basic test I performed.
21-03-2011, 10:26 AM
#32
No mate not in most cases as if you do it as a stripped shell you end up with all miss shaped plugs so then miss shaped molds unless you have topend cad linked to a cnc then thats the way as the molds will be alloy .Warren you would be supprised on how much of the f1 ect cars are made in wet lay or slow cure bagging
although im dont like the idea of molding the whole car while its in one piece. This quarter being done looks amusingly awkward:
hardest thing ive found with bagging and resin infusion is with nasty curves and corners making sure you dont get any bridging at all which is where prep comes in.
jay, can you use a gelcoat layer in an infusion bagging stack?? or do you just cheat and use spray gel afterwards? The only thing i dont like about infusion is that if you scratch a part etc you have virtually no resin to sand through before you break into the fabric and if you want long lasting exterior panels it would be nice if you could polish out scratches etc for a good few years before it looks untidy!
21-03-2011, 10:52 AM
#33
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunny Italy
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Replicating a steel structure directly in carbon wouldn't be a good way to do it because it's a waste of material, the structure isn't optimised and you'd have to work out a decent way of bonding a set of parts together with interfaces that were originally designed to be welded.
Which is why you don't blindly replicate the existing design but instead create something more appropriate to take advantage of what's possible. So you would do things like embedding a core inside a part instead of gluing a set of formed sheets together (for sill structure/A-pillar/etc.)
Also you'd do some parts very differently like the crash structures - 'stronger' isn't what you're looking at, the materials dissipate energy and fail in different ways so just copying a steel structure into carbon wouldn't work.
So you want to end up with something like this with the panels & front & rear frames bolted on, very different to a pressed steel monocoque:
For a Puma you would probably end up adding a cosmetic shell similar to what you'd do with a steel tubular chassis.
(Should point out the above is a Koenigsegg chassis made by Advanced Composites Group, the metal frame is for shipping. Enzo, Carrera GT and Lambo Aventador chassis all look vaguely similar)
Which is why you don't blindly replicate the existing design but instead create something more appropriate to take advantage of what's possible. So you would do things like embedding a core inside a part instead of gluing a set of formed sheets together (for sill structure/A-pillar/etc.)
Also you'd do some parts very differently like the crash structures - 'stronger' isn't what you're looking at, the materials dissipate energy and fail in different ways so just copying a steel structure into carbon wouldn't work.
So you want to end up with something like this with the panels & front & rear frames bolted on, very different to a pressed steel monocoque:
For a Puma you would probably end up adding a cosmetic shell similar to what you'd do with a steel tubular chassis.
(Should point out the above is a Koenigsegg chassis made by Advanced Composites Group, the metal frame is for shipping. Enzo, Carrera GT and Lambo Aventador chassis all look vaguely similar)
Last edited by wibbler; 21-03-2011 at 10:56 AM.
21-03-2011, 12:10 PM
#34
ahh ok so panel flex etc. i guess you could do as much as possible on the car then while its rigid and add some temporary stiffening on the "back" of the surface being moulded??
although im dont like the idea of molding the whole car while its in one piece. This quarter being done looks amusingly awkward:
exactly my thoughts. IIRC doesnt the right mix of composites such as carbon/kevlar exceed the performance of shit pressed mild steel in everyway???
my kitchen oven has a minimum temp of 80 C which is kind of convienient really
hardest thing ive found with bagging and resin infusion is with nasty curves and corners making sure you dont get any bridging at all which is where prep comes in.
jay, can you use a gelcoat layer in an infusion bagging stack?? or do you just cheat and use spray gel afterwards? The only thing i dont like about infusion is that if you scratch a part etc you have virtually no resin to sand through before you break into the fabric and if you want long lasting exterior panels it would be nice if you could polish out scratches etc for a good few years before it looks untidy!
although im dont like the idea of molding the whole car while its in one piece. This quarter being done looks amusingly awkward:
exactly my thoughts. IIRC doesnt the right mix of composites such as carbon/kevlar exceed the performance of shit pressed mild steel in everyway???
my kitchen oven has a minimum temp of 80 C which is kind of convienient really
hardest thing ive found with bagging and resin infusion is with nasty curves and corners making sure you dont get any bridging at all which is where prep comes in.
jay, can you use a gelcoat layer in an infusion bagging stack?? or do you just cheat and use spray gel afterwards? The only thing i dont like about infusion is that if you scratch a part etc you have virtually no resin to sand through before you break into the fabric and if you want long lasting exterior panels it would be nice if you could polish out scratches etc for a good few years before it looks untidy!
yes you can use a clear gel on the mold then infuse it . as for bridging thats where exspeirience comes in on what material and tools you use such as intenserfying integral parts ect
21-03-2011, 05:19 PM
#35
So you want to end up with something like this with the panels & front & rear frames bolted on, very different to a pressed steel monocoque:
For a Puma you would probably end up adding a cosmetic shell similar to what you'd do with a steel tubular chassis.
(Should point out the above is a Koenigsegg chassis made by Advanced Composites Group, the metal frame is for shipping. Enzo, Carrera GT and Lambo Aventador chassis all look vaguely similar)
For a Puma you would probably end up adding a cosmetic shell similar to what you'd do with a steel tubular chassis.
(Should point out the above is a Koenigsegg chassis made by Advanced Composites Group, the metal frame is for shipping. Enzo, Carrera GT and Lambo Aventador chassis all look vaguely similar)
I cheat with materials on mine as use 2x2 200gsm only on the visible layer, the rest being a heavier grade carbon although i found the heavier carbon i needed cut lines in some tight 3D corners to stop it bridging. What do you mean by intenserfying integral parts??? I had considered using some bracing to hold material into the deeper corners but the vacuum is supposed to do that, i just have to be careful to have enough material in each layer of the stack to fill the space then the vacuum will do the rest once i adjust the materials as you pull the vac.
21-03-2011, 06:18 PM
#38
Carbon parts for me...
i'd love the whole sides to be made out of carbon, wings, doors, and rear quarters on my orion. then i'd leave a "pin stripe" unpainted, just laquered, hinting at the fact its all carbon underneath
i think that'd be smart as fuck.
21-03-2011, 06:24 PM
#39
Scuttle panel for the saph 
saw a couple on ebay but sold like hot cakes and there's no more looked very nice
Rouse front splitter too just can be doing with taking my one off and re-fitting another one its one of those 'if aint broke do try n fix it' sort of job
Luciano
saw a couple on ebay but sold like hot cakes and there's no more looked very nice Rouse front splitter too
just can be doing with taking my one off and re-fitting another one its one of those 'if aint broke do try n fix it' sort of job Luciano
21-03-2011, 06:47 PM
#40
Testing the future
Replicating a steel structure directly in carbon wouldn't be a good way to do it because it's a waste of material, the structure isn't optimised and you'd have to work out a decent way of bonding a set of parts together with interfaces that were originally designed to be welded.
Which is why you don't blindly replicate the existing design but instead create something more appropriate to take advantage of what's possible. So you would do things like embedding a core inside a part instead of gluing a set of formed sheets together (for sill structure/A-pillar/etc.)
Also you'd do some parts very differently like the crash structures - 'stronger' isn't what you're looking at, the materials dissipate energy and fail in different ways so just copying a steel structure into carbon wouldn't work.
So you want to end up with something like this with the panels & front & rear frames bolted on, very different to a pressed steel monocoque:
Which is why you don't blindly replicate the existing design but instead create something more appropriate to take advantage of what's possible. So you would do things like embedding a core inside a part instead of gluing a set of formed sheets together (for sill structure/A-pillar/etc.)
Also you'd do some parts very differently like the crash structures - 'stronger' isn't what you're looking at, the materials dissipate energy and fail in different ways so just copying a steel structure into carbon wouldn't work.
So you want to end up with something like this with the panels & front & rear frames bolted on, very different to a pressed steel monocoque: