Gav Diamond

iTrader: (6)

Was thinking about removing the power steering from my 3dr as will remove the clutter from the engine bay and the non power rack has more steering lock to it.

Has anyone done this?
Does the steering feel ok or is it too heavy with town driving and parking etc

Other option is electric with the Corsa rack, has anyone done this and whats its like?

Ta
Gav

markk

iTrader: (2)

very very feckin heavy with big wheels on.

CosworthGuy

it may have more lock turn to turn but the cossie has aquicker rack does it not so still turns the same distance lock to lock, wouldnt fuck about to be honest. more expense for an unesasery reason

M K

iTrader: (9)

You will need a whole new column set up to run the corsa column, it's good but an easier option is the citroen/Peugeot electric power steering set up, no clutter in the bay and hide the pump in the passenger footwell

I'm doing it in my cossie Fiesta, Martin Hadland runs it in the escos too and that copes fine,

chaffe

ive got no power steering on my v6 24v sierra, its not heavy at all. given the choice i would stay with the power steering though, as said the rack is quicker

Gav Diamond

iTrader: (6)

Cheers guys

The steering lock on the cossie is rubbish imo, everyone I know who has had a cosworth has commented on how bad they are, I suppose if driven all the time you learn to live with it but im sure my base model was better, however I never ran big or wide wheels on that so can't really compare.

M K
Any more info on the Citroen/Peugeot set up please, is this power column or power rack.

Ta

chaffe

they use an electric pump with built in resevoir and conventional hydraulic rack. The pumps are crap and shit themselves all the time.

Touring Car Spares

iTrader: (6)

really ,lol ??
Theyve been used in virtually every car ive seen from about the mid nineties ,failures i can recall are very few ! This in the boot of a 97 Ford mondeo , we still use them in current S-2000 BTCC cars today

chaffe

on the peugeot/citroens they fail quite often, the main problem is not the pump itself but usually the reylay or wiring melting due to the high current draw if im to be more specific. Plus you dont use a touring car to do 20,000 miles a year, so id imagine things would last a bit longer on them

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

Dont see the point mate.

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

I have an electric power steering pump from a Saxo powering the original rack on a 2WD Sapph. You can mount the system anywhere and it doesn't sap any power from the engine. It's very neat. I don't have any photos yet but will take some soon. It feels a little heavier at standstill but works very well on the move.

Luke at Enhanced Performance fitted it all.

Charlie

M K

iTrader: (9)

Charlie did you use new aeroquip type fittings? i have a saxo pump i am going to be using but i want new aeroquip line from pump to rack and back but not sure if i could get them to fit the rack/pump

Thanks
Marc

markk

iTrader: (2)

the problem i found with the electrohydraulic system was its very slow if you have to do a fast turn from one way to the other.

Craig J

iTrader: (1)

For a road car I'd stick with standard. On a race or track car it divides opinion. Some like Graham Goode swear by manual steering. Others like Greg Rose at X-Sport wouldn't do without. I think it's a case of try it with and without and see what you prefer.

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Nah, it's mostly hydraulic lines - strong black rubber I assume, or similar. Not aeroquip though.

Charlie

Gav Diamond

iTrader: (6)

The pump in the pics above looks quite big, I take it you would not be able to hide this behind the dash.

Does seem to be all track cars, just wandered why its never been done to road cars??

chaffe

looks like bsp/jic twin wire hydraulic hose

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Gav, don't go for non assisted steering.. I promise you that you will hate it very quickly.

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

The set-up in the picture is not mine.

My pump is on the chassis leg on the turbo side. Reservoir is just behind the rad also on the turbo side. It's very neat.

No reason why it wouldn't work on a road car but the original Ford setup works very well so no need to change I think.

I'll take some pics soon.

The Saxo pump was around Ł60 from a scrapyard and came with the fluid reservoir I think.

Charlie

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

I have raced a few times on standard rack without power assist and once on the move it feels fine.

Charlie

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

are you going to be using the car for drifting? If not would the lack of extra lock really bother you on the road?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I hate non power steering on track cars, no good if you need to get loads of lock on really quickly as invariably its a slower rack as well.

Quick rack and PAS all the way for me TBH

Im going to use the electro hydraulic setup on my new clio, Ive got electric column on my corsa that I retrofitted with a standalone controller but its a lot more hassle to retrofit than an electric pump is so as my clio already has a power rack designed for use with hydraulics im just going to use the electric pump instead.

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

I had a twin cam Saph very briefly with no PAS. And there was a good reason I had it very briefly. Without PAS and on big wheels, it was bloody horrible! Crap for parking and stuff. It's too big a car to not have PAS in my opinion.

Gav Diamond

iTrader: (6)

Thanks guys, think the general opinion is leave it as is so might leave it alone for now..

JonnyBravo

Either fit a adjustable epas column or don't bother IMO

I can't imagine its that much of a ball ache to fit really.

foreigneRS

interesting. do you not have an alternator on your race car? just run from a battery and then charge that from the mains between races?

JonnyBravo

That said the Peugeot is non PAS and the steering is great, even on 10.5" wide tyres. I was very suprised as I expected it to be a right nightmare to turn.

M K

iTrader: (9)

Howuch are the proper btcc pumps
Tony? Second hand,

I've got a saxo as Martin uses as he has performed fine and only cost Ł35

Thanks
Marc

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Yes, have an alternator but it's a very small alternator from Edge Performance - thanks to Danny.

Why do you ask? Space constraints?

Charlie

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Good choice by the way.


Charlie

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Think he was being sarcastic You mentioned no load on your engine....

Chip

iTrader: (3)

As martin mentions, no doubt because the load on the alternator is increased when the PAS is active so Nick is saying that it does sap engine power still.

That said, at least it doesnt have constant sacrificial losses even on the straights like a normal PAS setup, and of course the times when you are loading up the PAS turning into a corner you tend not to be accelerating anyway, so I reckon your comment stands quite well TBH mate!

rog

iTrader: (2)

Power Steering-19 People like this

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Agree.

foreigneRS

agree entirely in principle, but it's important to get it all factually correct and in context

so to say that an alternator that is belt driven, on bearings with friction, with an inertia to rotate, and maybe a fan to drive around doesn't have a sacrificial loss is also factually incorrect, although in reality it is possibly so small to ignore. but then so is maybe the parasitic loss of a traditional hydraulic pump when you are on the straight and only really loads up the engine when you turn in

having said all of that, i am sure that an electric setup is more efficient, hence most car manufacturers going that way if it shows even a slight improvement in fuel economy or reduction in emmissions in the EU drive cycles (done in a straight line, so they probably switch off the system entirely for the test), although to some extent they are probably used for packaging reasons, and so that they can be easily tuned for different models of the same platform.

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Best power steering I've ever driven is my old mans escos, zf pump with 1.9 turns lock to lock and you can turn it with barely any force it feels great

foreigneRS

interesting - a lot of people think that assistance takes feel away. like removing the connection between the surface of the track and the hands on the steering wheel. some people, me included, like to feel when the steering goes light to know when you're approaching the limit of grip. i'm not convinced that assistance removes that feeling, just that the difference is more subtle.

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm I don't know, I'd probably disagree, I feel I get a lot of feel and feed back through the steering on the escos, maybe me just getting used to the feel but i think it's great,

It must be pretty good for the grp a and wrc escos drivers not to have changed it!?

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Whats the difference between a track and a smooth Tarmac rally, they're pretty similar and the cars were never changed, I don't see the there being much difference, but tbh I'm not as experienced as I'd like to be when comparing so will stay a bit shut up about this lol

It may be down to elec steering not being out ??

I agree its what your used to and like, people always get comfortable with what they have

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I understand, Im just thinking, if a elec pump was so much better why wouldn't they have used them for tarmac, or rallying full stop,

I'd like to hear from people in the rallying scene,

Danny do you know why they went to elec pump exactly or hopefully Tony could help us a bit