Bleed Valves Rant
#83
Well, from my experience I certainly disagree !
I have removed several brass type bleed valves to fit an amal type valve in place with simple on/off control and the stability issues dissapeared.
I thought all quality tuners hated them or removed them on sight given the chance
I have removed several brass type bleed valves to fit an amal type valve in place with simple on/off control and the stability issues dissapeared.
I thought all quality tuners hated them or removed them on sight given the chance
On the right application they are very effective and good value. They arent ideal for every setup, but can work with many.
#86
no one has mentioned the fact that bleeding too much air off can damage the turbo as it has to spin faster to compensate for the loss of pressure on the compressor side, overspeeding can prematurely wear the turbo, not to mention the increase in back pressure required to make it spin faster, creating a loss in power at the same time
that depends upon the structure of the material
#87
Turbocharging Technician
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Top secret. Mission:Imposible.
1/8" diameter bleed valve right open is a lot of air at 2 bar boost, you make the desicion as to wether or not you want that sort of boost leak, as you seem to know what we are talking about.
#89
When my air injectors gave me problems at brunters so we swapped them for a bleed valve and did 194.7mph, the bleed valve provided a quick fix that stayed on the car for months
Last edited by Martin-Hadland; 02-02-2011 at 07:33 AM.
#90
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
I'd say it's only the people who dont understand them, who hate them.
I guess you are using the valve to reduce air flow out of the existing AMAL valve as thats the only way you could reduce the boost.
I will forgive you on that occasion
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 02-02-2011 at 07:33 AM.
#93
They are just a cheap and nasty bodge IMO.
Also, as said, they are too easily adjusted and rarely sealed against tampering.
It would appear Mr R needs a bleed valve on his rear end so we can limit your brown nosing to him
Also, as said, they are too easily adjusted and rarely sealed against tampering.
It would appear Mr R needs a bleed valve on his rear end so we can limit your brown nosing to him
#95
Rich, its a personal view I suppose but an actuator is adjustable even though it is lockable but no one has come up with a main stream alternative to that and it is an item that does need adjustment from time to time.
Another view...
I just hate seeing a beautifully crafted YB engine with a bleed valve cabled tied to a boost hose or hanging in the air by the alternator.
It just looks out of place and screams "CHAV" to me !
And yes, any one who tampers with anything under the bonnet without understanding what they are really doing or the consequences, should be shot and the bleed valve is usually the first thing to touch
Another view...
I just hate seeing a beautifully crafted YB engine with a bleed valve cabled tied to a boost hose or hanging in the air by the alternator.
It just looks out of place and screams "CHAV" to me !
And yes, any one who tampers with anything under the bonnet without understanding what they are really doing or the consequences, should be shot and the bleed valve is usually the first thing to touch
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 02-02-2011 at 12:08 PM.
#97
Would modding the Amal valve nylon inserts be seen as roughly same thing as fitting a bleed valve. Would that be a no no (according to some)?
#98
They're cheap like the budgie.
That is not a fact. I could argue they are significantly less damaging than your ignition key is to your engine.
Tom
That is not a fact. I could argue they are significantly less damaging than your ignition key is to your engine.
Tom
#99
I have zero virews on that as I have never experienced that situation as I would never lower myself to using one to find out..lol
I am sure any spool up advantages you are talking about can be acheived with proper mapped and/or closed loop control anyway and then at least you can build some safety and control into the boost levels
#100
I've removed the Amal valve and fitted the forge valve in the dash area, was gonna set the max to 18-20 psi on the actuator then use the in car valve to tone it down when just toodling about. running megasquirt and lc1 wideband, surely the ecu map sensor will pick up the lower boost psi and adjust fuelling accordingly, once mapped right?
#101
I've removed the Amal valve and fitted the forge valve in the dash area, was gonna set the max to 18-20 psi on the actuator then use the in car valve to tone it down when just toodling about. running megasquirt and lc1 wideband, surely the ecu map sensor will pick up the lower boost psi and adjust fuelling accordingly, once mapped right?
#103
Turbocharging Technician
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From: Top secret. Mission:Imposible.
I've removed the Amal valve and fitted the forge valve in the dash area, was gonna set the max to 18-20 psi on the actuator then use the in car valve to tone it down when just toodling about. running megasquirt and lc1 wideband, surely the ecu map sensor will pick up the lower boost psi and adjust fuelling accordingly, once mapped right?
#105
PassionFords Creator
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From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
Stu,
I have zero virews on that as I have never experienced that situation as I would never lower myself to using one to find out..lol
I am sure any spool up advantages you are talking about can be acheived with proper mapped and/or closed loop control anyway and then at least you can build some safety and control into the boost levels
I have zero virews on that as I have never experienced that situation as I would never lower myself to using one to find out..lol
I am sure any spool up advantages you are talking about can be acheived with proper mapped and/or closed loop control anyway and then at least you can build some safety and control into the boost levels
Plus they come with a bracket, so no tie wraps or bits of string and crisp packet mountings that you hate so much.
#106
Turbocharging Technician
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Top secret. Mission:Imposible.
i know, i read that, but i was just helping this lad understand how to run a hi-lo boost set up, did you not read his post? it would not work like that, hence i gave him a solution, im not bothered with all the big boost stuff my car makes plenty of power at 6psi
#108
oh ok. i was under the impressions the amal valve supplied air pressure at certain revs from the compressor to the acutator closing the waste gate. so with the valve between turbo and actuator i thought if it was open the rod adjustment would govern the boost then as the air pressure is bled off that would open the waste gate lowering boost?? basically substituting the ecu controlled amal valve with a manual option.
now i am confused!! ha!
now i am confused!! ha!
#109
Turbocharging Technician
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,557
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From: Top secret. Mission:Imposible.
oh ok. i was under the impressions the amal valve supplied air pressure at certain revs from the compressor to the acutator closing the waste gate. so with the valve between turbo and actuator i thought if it was open the rod adjustment would govern the boost then as the air pressure is bled off that would open the waste gate lowering boost?? basically substituting the ecu controlled amal valve with a manual option.
now i am confused!! ha!
now i am confused!! ha!
#110
right so for example the turbos on the trucks I work on have a single pipe from compressor to actuator. so as soon as a certain pressure is met the waste gate is open. governing a specific pressure. surely if the actuator doesn't get this signal it will stay shut then when the air pressure is allowed to the actuator it will operate the wastegate there fore dropping boost??
works in my head I suppose. :0)
works in my head I suppose. :0)
#111
right so for example the turbos on the trucks I work on have a single pipe from compressor to actuator. so as soon as a certain pressure is met the waste gate is open. governing a specific pressure. surely if the actuator doesn't get this signal it will stay shut then when the air pressure is allowed to the actuator it will operate the wastegate there fore dropping boost??
works in my head I suppose. :0)
works in my head I suppose. :0)
#112
youre thinking the wrong way around,the valve being shut means all the exhaust gasses are going through the turbo,making it spin faster and faster and faster,increasing boost,then the valve is opened,and some of the gasses bypass the turbo allowing it to settle in speed
#113
the bleed valve (boost controller,whatever) goes between the 2.it bleeds air so that the wastegate doesnt get the required pressure till later,so it stays closed longer,so the boost gets to a higher level before the wastegate opens,therefore you get a higher peak boost pressure
so,if i understand what youre asking,lol,im tired,been up since 2am!
if theres no bleed valve,the turbo spins quicker and quicker,increasing boost,until the required amount of pressure is fed along the line to the actuator to overcome the spring pressure to open the wastegate,at that point the peak boost pressure has been achieved.
if you fit the bleed valve you delay the process of the spring pressure being overcome,this allows the turbo more time to increase speed and therefore mid range boost.
so,if i understand what youre asking,lol,im tired,been up since 2am!
if theres no bleed valve,the turbo spins quicker and quicker,increasing boost,until the required amount of pressure is fed along the line to the actuator to overcome the spring pressure to open the wastegate,at that point the peak boost pressure has been achieved.
if you fit the bleed valve you delay the process of the spring pressure being overcome,this allows the turbo more time to increase speed and therefore mid range boost.
Last edited by big_wig_074; 02-02-2011 at 07:14 PM.
#114
You should take the blinkers off for a while and examine some of the modern products on the market. They are very good indeed and can work WITH the Amal to increase spool up and retain all factory safety features. Example here:
Plus they come with a bracket, so no tie wraps or bits of string and crisp packet mountings that you hate so much.
Plus they come with a bracket, so no tie wraps or bits of string and crisp packet mountings that you hate so much.
Blinkered is an understatement !!!!
Bleed valves work perfectly for many applications, and you wont find a cheaper alternative that offers easily adjustable boost.
They certainly arent perfect for every car, but will work to give very good stable control on a lot.
And to say bleed valves are a nasty bodge. So what are air injectors ? I see them as a total waste of money when there are far cheaper and dare say better alternatives.
I really dont see what air injectors have to offer over a properly controlled 3port solenoid at a fraction of the price.
So what would you say is the best method of boost control ? ( not asking you Stu by the way.....it is directed at Mr bleed valve hater lol )
And your reasons behind it ?
The valves Stu linked are probably quite similar to the Dawes devices bleed valve. Andy Forest used one of those on his Subaru which has ran over 210mph and run a sub 9sec quarter at crazy speeds.
They seem to work just fine for many people.
Last edited by stevieturbo; 02-02-2011 at 07:29 PM.
#117
#118
Turbocharging Technician
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From: Top secret. Mission:Imposible.
#119
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
You should take the blinkers off for a while and examine some of the modern products on the market. They are very good indeed and can work WITH the Amal to increase spool up and retain all factory safety features. Example here:
Plus they come with a bracket, so no tie wraps or bits of string and crisp packet mountings that you hate so much.
Plus they come with a bracket, so no tie wraps or bits of string and crisp packet mountings that you hate so much.
I must admit, I havent really played with tuning a car mechanically for over 4 years so probably not up to speed on the latest mechanical tuning products so will have to take your word on it
However, at least its given you another opportunity for an advert
You sell them, but would you fit one on a car you have tuned and guranteed if you had a choice ?
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
So what would you say is the best method of boost control ? ( not asking you Stu by the way.....it is directed at Mr bleed valve hater lol )
And your reasons behind it ?
And your reasons behind it ?
I have already given my reasons if you care to re-read my posts
ECU controlled will always be my prefered way.
FYI.... Yes I am blinkered and will always hate them but this thread is about my opinion's and not pure facts hence the thread topic title.
However, it has thrown up some interesting discussions and alternative opinions !
#120