Veyron running cost
13-12-2010, 07:56 PM
#43
PassionFord Post Whore!!
because a brand new tyre had to be developed. The amount of money needed to develop a tyre that can go at 290 mph have the grip needed and disperse water through the overall massive contact patch and still be road legal! Not like there going to sell many in comparison to a 185/13
13-12-2010, 07:59 PM
#44
Is all this expense a LEGAL requirment?
I imagine the service would be very similar to an air craft inspection in terms of thoroughness.
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 13-12-2010 at 08:01 PM.
13-12-2010, 08:02 PM
#45
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Aye Rob ..
Just wondering if it was Illegal to drive the car on the public road if it hasn't been serviced/checked/inspected by the dealer?
What if the tyres are still UK road legal after they have done the advised miles ..
Just wondering if it was Illegal to drive the car on the public road if it hasn't been serviced/checked/inspected by the dealer?
What if the tyres are still UK road legal after they have done the advised miles ..
14-12-2010, 04:18 PM
#48
Have any of you seen the program on Discovery about the Veyron ? It really is something very special.
But the running costs, tyre changes etc etc, are all Bugatti being massively cautious, which is perhaps sensible given the potential the car has.
But would it need all this service work if you drove it perfectly normally for say 50k ?
No, It should need only normal servicing that any car would see.
If you abused the life out of it on a track for 5k, then of course it would need extensive checks.
But the hard bit will be finding somewhere to carry out any work, or perhaps finding cheaper replacement tyres, than the custom made ones for the Veyron.
Some parts might be easy sourced, others very difficult
Still a bloody cool car !!
But the running costs, tyre changes etc etc, are all Bugatti being massively cautious, which is perhaps sensible given the potential the car has.
But would it need all this service work if you drove it perfectly normally for say 50k ?
No, It should need only normal servicing that any car would see.
If you abused the life out of it on a track for 5k, then of course it would need extensive checks.
But the hard bit will be finding somewhere to carry out any work, or perhaps finding cheaper replacement tyres, than the custom made ones for the Veyron.
Some parts might be easy sourced, others very difficult
Still a bloody cool car !!
14-12-2010, 06:06 PM
#49
Have any of you seen the program on Discovery about the Veyron ? It really is something very special.
But the running costs, tyre changes etc etc, are all Bugatti being massively cautious, which is perhaps sensible given the potential the car has.
But would it need all this service work if you drove it perfectly normally for say 50k ?
No, It should need only normal servicing that any car would see.
If you abused the life out of it on a track for 5k, then of course it would need extensive checks.
But the hard bit will be finding somewhere to carry out any work, or perhaps finding cheaper replacement tyres, than the custom made ones for the Veyron.
Some parts might be easy sourced, others very difficult
Still a bloody cool car !!
But the running costs, tyre changes etc etc, are all Bugatti being massively cautious, which is perhaps sensible given the potential the car has.
But would it need all this service work if you drove it perfectly normally for say 50k ?
No, It should need only normal servicing that any car would see.
If you abused the life out of it on a track for 5k, then of course it would need extensive checks.
But the hard bit will be finding somewhere to carry out any work, or perhaps finding cheaper replacement tyres, than the custom made ones for the Veyron.
Some parts might be easy sourced, others very difficult
Still a bloody cool car !!
14-12-2010, 06:26 PM
#51
It's been on a few times. Was on yesterday again. Not sure which Discovery channel, but think it is just called Veyron Supercar or something
http://natgeotv.com/uk/bugatti-super-car/about
Looks like Monday 20th and Saturday 25th, 7pm
http://natgeotv.com/uk/bugatti-super-car/about
Looks like Monday 20th and Saturday 25th, 7pm
Last edited by stevieturbo; 14-12-2010 at 06:28 PM.
14-12-2010, 06:44 PM
#53
PassionFord Post Troll
neglecting the massive development costs for such a bespoke tyre there is a HUGE expense in the tooling involved in manufacturing a tyre.
creating the bare carcass is faily straightforward and easy but to create the mould to give a tyre its tread is a massive undertaking in itself. for that size of tyre it needs massive moulds split into at least 8 radial sections, none of which are machined the same and all have to be machined on a massive 5 axis mill. my uncle sells and has worked with the software to run these bespoke 5 axis machines and has done lot with tyre manufacturers. really intersting stuff and takes months just to right the lines of code needed to make 1 part of the tyre mould! massive expense for a product sold in very small quantity!!
come to think of it he sold the software to the japanese company who machined that mototcross helmet out of billet and then "borrowed" it off them for an exhibition. so wish he could have brought that round!!
creating the bare carcass is faily straightforward and easy but to create the mould to give a tyre its tread is a massive undertaking in itself. for that size of tyre it needs massive moulds split into at least 8 radial sections, none of which are machined the same and all have to be machined on a massive 5 axis mill. my uncle sells and has worked with the software to run these bespoke 5 axis machines and has done lot with tyre manufacturers. really intersting stuff and takes months just to right the lines of code needed to make 1 part of the tyre mould! massive expense for a product sold in very small quantity!!
come to think of it he sold the software to the japanese company who machined that mototcross helmet out of billet and then "borrowed" it off them for an exhibition. so wish he could have brought that round!!
14-12-2010, 06:50 PM
#54
It shows you them making and testing the tyres in the video.
the tyres to a degree, are hand made.
Achieving 250mph isnt necessarily a massive feat. But they designed a road car that can do it, and sustain it fairly safely. That includes the aero package, transmission, engine, tyres, everything.
It's much easier for some of the aftermarket places to build a car that might hit 250mph...but it will never be the same package that the Bugatti is.
Among the many surprises....it uses a DSG gearbox which is obviously where the production car stuff came from that is common place now
the tyres to a degree, are hand made.
Achieving 250mph isnt necessarily a massive feat. But they designed a road car that can do it, and sustain it fairly safely. That includes the aero package, transmission, engine, tyres, everything.
It's much easier for some of the aftermarket places to build a car that might hit 250mph...but it will never be the same package that the Bugatti is.
Among the many surprises....it uses a DSG gearbox which is obviously where the production car stuff came from that is common place now
Last edited by stevieturbo; 14-12-2010 at 06:52 PM.
14-12-2010, 07:13 PM
#56
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Veyron was late to the game with DSG, was on all sorts of other VAG stuff first. And Porsche was actually first with the concept back in the 80's but that wasn't for a road car.
As a car the numbers are impressive but it still doesn't feel as special as some others; there just isn't anything new or clever, just 'more'. F1 LM for me! (Cheaper to own too...)
As a car the numbers are impressive but it still doesn't feel as special as some others; there just isn't anything new or clever, just 'more'. F1 LM for me! (Cheaper to own too...)
14-12-2010, 07:18 PM
#58
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Dojj it is two 'boxes, the (most likely) next gear is preselected and it just changes which clutch is engaged to get to the next gear.
Nice and quick to work but heavy and complicated. There are other better ways to do it.
Nice and quick to work but heavy and complicated. There are other better ways to do it.
14-12-2010, 08:13 PM
#59
It's been on a few times. Was on yesterday again. Not sure which Discovery channel, but think it is just called Veyron Supercar or something
http://natgeotv.com/uk/bugatti-super-car/about
Looks like Monday 20th and Saturday 25th, 7pm
http://natgeotv.com/uk/bugatti-super-car/about
Looks like Monday 20th and Saturday 25th, 7pm
14-12-2010, 09:22 PM
#60
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It shows you them making and testing the tyres in the video.
the tyres to a degree, are hand made.
Achieving 250mph isnt necessarily a massive feat. But they designed a road car that can do it, and sustain it fairly safely. That includes the aero package, transmission, engine, tyres, everything.
It's much easier for some of the aftermarket places to build a car that might hit 250mph...but it will never be the same package that the Bugatti is.
Among the many surprises....it uses a DSG gearbox which is obviously where the production car stuff came from that is common place now
the tyres to a degree, are hand made.
Achieving 250mph isnt necessarily a massive feat. But they designed a road car that can do it, and sustain it fairly safely. That includes the aero package, transmission, engine, tyres, everything.
It's much easier for some of the aftermarket places to build a car that might hit 250mph...but it will never be the same package that the Bugatti is.
Among the many surprises....it uses a DSG gearbox which is obviously where the production car stuff came from that is common place now
This is a car that can do 10 sec 1/4s ALL day long. cruise at 200mph... do over 250mph
AND YET happy to sit in stop start traffic in desert heat or artic cold and go for thousand of miles without a mechanic looking at it...
and have a transmission strong enough and fast shifting enough to handle over 1000lb ft of torque and yet be docile enough for you NAN to drive around London traffic all day and pull away totally smoothly and gently everytime.
Its an amazing car.
Staggering.
As someone who has alot of supercar experience on PH said... a Veyron makes an Enzo look like an overpriced KITCAR! that is the standard of build and the utterly amazing levels of quality in every area of the car. It is built to Aero standards, not car standards.
VW/Bugatti loose alot of money on every Veyron they sell.... even at 1.6million for an SS!
As Chris Harris said, the only problem with the Veyron is that after driving it... all other cars seem a bit pointless.
I like the fact that the new Veyron SS is actually a big laggy.... but even when off boost, its still 911 Turbo at full chat fast! and then it wakes up!!!
14-12-2010, 10:55 PM
#62
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Theres some crazy tyre price quots in this thred lol if u watch engineering the veyron it states a full set of tyres is 11 grand!. And how can the gear box be over complicated and heavy lol it genius when your accelerating in 1st gear its already in second as it has two input sharfts and two clutchs so when it needs to change up it just switchs clutch automatically theres is no way man can change gear that fast lol.That box technology is already used in f1 and by ferrari and its not two gearboxs its two input sharfts in one box. One shaft inside the other with there own clutch a inner one and an outer one the inner drives 2 4 6 and the outer drives 1 3 5 7 and reverse there also multi plate wet clutches! http://www.zerotohundred.com/wp-cont...gearbox-lg.jpg
14-12-2010, 11:01 PM
#64
Theres some crazy tyre price quots in this thred lol if u watch engineering the veyron it states a full set of tyres is 11 grand!. And how can the gear box be over complicated and heavy lol it genius when your accelerating in 1st gear its already in second as it has two input sharfts and two clutchs so when it needs to change up it just switchs clutch automatically theres is no way man can change gear that fast lol.That box technology is already used in f1 and by ferrari and its not two gearboxs its two input sharfts in one box. One shaft inside the other with there own clutch a inner one and an outer one the inner drives 2 4 6 and the outer drives 1 3 5 7 and reverse there also multi plate wet clutches! http://www.zerotohundred.com/wp-cont...gearbox-lg.jpg
14-12-2010, 11:21 PM
#67
Have to agree with porkie, its just nothing like the normal supercar one trick pony type of car, its just an absolutely amazing acheivement, as close to the perfect car as 2010 technology allows really and im sure a lot of what has been learned is filtering down into other VAG cars
14-12-2010, 11:47 PM
#68
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No doubt someone has been given one and been told to keep using it until he breaks it
If so, I want that job !
It will be years until anything on that level will ever be made, infact it might just turn out to to be one of a kind as who can match it really ?
14-12-2010, 11:49 PM
#69
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Agreed it's an engineering marvel but to be honest i think it looks quite ugly and even if i had a bottomless pit to fund it it wouldn't appeal to me.
15-12-2010, 01:38 AM
#72
also on the program about making it , it shows an engine on the dyno.
it produces just over 3000bhp!!!!!!!! so to answer someones question about reliability i would say that by taking away two thirds o an engines power would probably make it fairly reliable yes!
i have to say tho what a masterpiece of modern engineering if only other marques had the balls to do such a thing or at least stop making cars designed as throwaway items, the technology is there to make cars reliable these days its just a shame that there is less than a handfull of modern cars out there that actually are reliable instead of just being made by accountants
it produces just over 3000bhp!!!!!!!! so to answer someones question about reliability i would say that by taking away two thirds o an engines power would probably make it fairly reliable yes!
i have to say tho what a masterpiece of modern engineering if only other marques had the balls to do such a thing or at least stop making cars designed as throwaway items, the technology is there to make cars reliable these days its just a shame that there is less than a handfull of modern cars out there that actually are reliable instead of just being made by accountants
15-12-2010, 02:43 AM
#73
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its not two gearboxs its two input sharfts in one box
As a technology it definitely works but there is a trend away from the twin wet clutch designs because they're heavy and complicated, too many shafts and the wet clutch might be forgiving but it's not cheap and it's bulky & heavy.
There are other automated-manual designs out there. And I think at the moment the moment the only 'supercar' with a DCT other than the Veyron is the new Mclaren; everything else including the other VAG cars (eg. Lambo) use a more normal AMT design, just like everyone in F1 does.
I can't dispute the numbers the gearbox can handle and Ricardo & Borg-Warner did a good job but it's nothing particularly amazing, just bigger. Hate to think what a new one costs, you're probably looking at enough money to buy a pretty reasonable supercar outright.
15-12-2010, 08:38 AM
#75
also on the program about making it , it shows an engine on the dyno.
it produces just over 3000bhp!!!!!!!! so to answer someones question about reliability i would say that by taking away two thirds o an engines power would probably make it fairly reliable yes!
i have to say tho what a masterpiece of modern engineering if only other marques had the balls to do such a thing or at least stop making cars designed as throwaway items, the technology is there to make cars reliable these days its just a shame that there is less than a handfull of modern cars out there that actually are reliable instead of just being made by accountants
it produces just over 3000bhp!!!!!!!! so to answer someones question about reliability i would say that by taking away two thirds o an engines power would probably make it fairly reliable yes!
i have to say tho what a masterpiece of modern engineering if only other marques had the balls to do such a thing or at least stop making cars designed as throwaway items, the technology is there to make cars reliable these days its just a shame that there is less than a handfull of modern cars out there that actually are reliable instead of just being made by accountants
I dont think reliability engine wise is an issue at all, thats actually a fairly easy thing to get right at only 150bhp per litre specific output, its things like the transmission that are the issue.
15-12-2010, 11:22 AM
#78
I think each car they sell probably gets back the material/labour cost for that vehicle.... the loss they talk about is likely the vast investment they made to the development that makes them the loss, but im sure they use some of the development in other areas too??
15-12-2010, 11:38 AM
#80
I dont see how it can actually be the production cost of each car.
The first vectra to roll off the lines cost something totally ridiculous like 5 billion IIRC, but the subesquent ones were a lot cheaper obviously until the average cost was below the average sale price to the dealers to make a profit.
Last edited by Chip; 15-12-2010 at 11:39 AM.