Enhanced Performance Tomorrow
13-12-2010, 04:28 PM
#81
Borg Warner EFR Equipped!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In the unit, building a 450bhp Time Attack Focus!
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13-12-2010, 08:06 PM
#83
I was there ealrier when it came apart and the oil pump has some scores but the lid if fine .
There was shit stuck to the strainer and something magnetic in the sump(cant work out what yet)the shells arent bad at all and everything else looks good..
Turbo re build,new oil pump,new oil feed pipe to turbo and jack shaft out as i think the bit weve found has something to do with that and id now advise on new bigs and mains..
cheers danny
There was shit stuck to the strainer and something magnetic in the sump(cant work out what yet)the shells arent bad at all and everything else looks good..
Turbo re build,new oil pump,new oil feed pipe to turbo and jack shaft out as i think the bit weve found has something to do with that and id now advise on new bigs and mains..
cheers danny
13-12-2010, 08:15 PM
#84
cheers rob.
how do you tell then if its a dirty build?
as my block was machined, and so was the head....
but it all looked clean when i got it back and built it up....
its done almost 50 miles now, plus been ran in and mapped on the rollers, so would i have seen a failure by now if it was dirty?
turbo feed is also from the block.
how do you tell then if its a dirty build?
as my block was machined, and so was the head....
but it all looked clean when i got it back and built it up....
its done almost 50 miles now, plus been ran in and mapped on the rollers, so would i have seen a failure by now if it was dirty?
turbo feed is also from the block.
13-12-2010, 08:44 PM
#85
No worries mate,
My engine was scrubbed and jet washed for 2 hours, i then put the air line up all of the galleries and STILL got some shit out. A main bearing clearance is say 0.02mm, to put it into perspective a grain of sand is between 0.063 mm to 0.2mm so you wouldn't necessarily see dirt from machining especially if its in a gallery.
If something is bigger than the bearing clearance and is made of a harder material than the shells and or journal, the shells or journal WILL be damaged.
A scratch in a shell isn't terminal.
Personally i would never run an engine in on a dyno, personal opinion. And if you didn't scrub your engine and galleries after machining was done i would definitely be changing my oil about now mate, just as a precaution.
If it was a very dirty build it would have failed by now buddy so i wouldn't worry too much, if it wasn't too bad it will just shorten the life of an engine, give lower oil pressure etc.
Have a read of this, Federal-Mogul own AE etc, and have some very good articles about bearing failure, i've got a PDF somewhere which is very very informative.... but fucking boring lol, the below link sums it up pretty well,
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spa...picID=33338167
Shows dirt as being the main reason for bearing failure/short life, 45% of all failure is because of dirt.
Rob,
My engine was scrubbed and jet washed for 2 hours, i then put the air line up all of the galleries and STILL got some shit out. A main bearing clearance is say 0.02mm, to put it into perspective a grain of sand is between 0.063 mm to 0.2mm so you wouldn't necessarily see dirt from machining especially if its in a gallery.
If something is bigger than the bearing clearance and is made of a harder material than the shells and or journal, the shells or journal WILL be damaged.
A scratch in a shell isn't terminal.
Personally i would never run an engine in on a dyno, personal opinion. And if you didn't scrub your engine and galleries after machining was done i would definitely be changing my oil about now mate, just as a precaution.
If it was a very dirty build it would have failed by now buddy so i wouldn't worry too much, if it wasn't too bad it will just shorten the life of an engine, give lower oil pressure etc.
Have a read of this, Federal-Mogul own AE etc, and have some very good articles about bearing failure, i've got a PDF somewhere which is very very informative.... but fucking boring lol, the below link sums it up pretty well,
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spa...picID=33338167
Shows dirt as being the main reason for bearing failure/short life, 45% of all failure is because of dirt.
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 13-12-2010 at 08:49 PM.
13-12-2010, 08:50 PM
#86
Borg Warner EFR Equipped!
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When i'm building engines I stand with my machinist while all the parts are hot washed and bagged before I leave with them, once i get them back they all get pressure washed with a steam cleaner, WD40'd and airlined.
After a mock build I squirt brake cleaner down all the oil galleries and airline it out onto white tissue and I keep going until it's 100% clean.
It's frightening how easily something get stuck inside and engine and when it comes loose, it causes havoc!
After a mock build I squirt brake cleaner down all the oil galleries and airline it out onto white tissue and I keep going until it's 100% clean.
It's frightening how easily something get stuck inside and engine and when it comes loose, it causes havoc!
13-12-2010, 09:26 PM
#89
No worries mate,
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spa...picID=33338167
Shows dirt as being the main reason for bearing failure/short life, 45% of all failure is because of dirt.
Rob,
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spa...picID=33338167
Shows dirt as being the main reason for bearing failure/short life, 45% of all failure is because of dirt.
Rob,
edited to add:
just wondering if the oil was diluted would pressure be lost towards the top of the engine causing wear on the head explaining the alloy as the head is the main source of alloy?
Last edited by tiny2white; 13-12-2010 at 09:34 PM. Reason: adding to post
13-12-2010, 09:34 PM
#90
Problem is mate, you have to work out where 'alloy' filings could actually come from. The block is iron, the crank shaft and cams are cast steel.
Leaving the head and oil pump as far as i know..... shells are probably lead copper etcetc, you would be in serious trouble if it was pistons leaving filing, and i don't know what material turbo bearings are???? as the turbo failed it may well have shit filings into the sump then back into the turbo filter????
If it were me i would do as Danny has said, change the oil pump as pressure is low, change the oil and carefully fit new bearings if they are worn, as said i don't agree with running engines in on Dynos but that is a personal opinion, and if it were me and i thought i needed to fit new bearings i would have the engine out to do it properly. Lets hope you don't mate.
Fuel contamination of oil leaves the oil smelling of petrol.
Sorry buddy, its a shit thing to happen
Rob,
Leaving the head and oil pump as far as i know..... shells are probably lead copper etcetc, you would be in serious trouble if it was pistons leaving filing, and i don't know what material turbo bearings are???? as the turbo failed it may well have shit filings into the sump then back into the turbo filter????
If it were me i would do as Danny has said, change the oil pump as pressure is low, change the oil and carefully fit new bearings if they are worn, as said i don't agree with running engines in on Dynos but that is a personal opinion, and if it were me and i thought i needed to fit new bearings i would have the engine out to do it properly. Lets hope you don't mate.
Fuel contamination of oil leaves the oil smelling of petrol.
Sorry buddy, its a shit thing to happen
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 13-12-2010 at 09:39 PM.
13-12-2010, 09:38 PM
#91
Problem is mate, you have to work out where 'alloy' filings could actually come from. The block is iron, the crank shaft and cams are cast steel.
Leaving the head and oil pump as far as i know..... shells are probably lead copper etcetc.
Fuel contamination of oil leaves the oil smelling of petrol.
Rob,
Leaving the head and oil pump as far as i know..... shells are probably lead copper etcetc.
Fuel contamination of oil leaves the oil smelling of petrol.
Rob,
oil smelling of fuel would be the only indication of blow by but could it cause problems like i've had? and at what point would you say fuel in oil was excessive if any?
13-12-2010, 09:46 PM
#92
Fuel contamination would have to be pretty damn excessive for that mate, cam cover off would probably give you a clue as to whether your problem is anything to do with the top end.
I don't really know how to diagnose how much fuel is in the oil, if it smells strongly of petrol its in there.
From what i have heard your in safe hands etc. And i really couldn't diagnose problems etc with out having it all in front of me to look at
Best of luck with it mate and let us know what they find
Rob,
I don't really know how to diagnose how much fuel is in the oil, if it smells strongly of petrol its in there.
From what i have heard your in safe hands etc. And i really couldn't diagnose problems etc with out having it all in front of me to look at
Best of luck with it mate and let us know what they find
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 13-12-2010 at 09:50 PM.
17-12-2010, 06:42 PM
#97
17-12-2010, 07:22 PM
#98
So far he's told me shells look fine to stay, your suggesting new ones?
Luke says change oil pump and all good to go but your last post surgests otherwise.
17-12-2010, 07:29 PM
#99
Imo the shells should be changed but if luke wants to use them id tell him you want new ones...
They can go again yeah but for the sake of Ł100 or so go with new ones mate..
cheers danny
17-12-2010, 07:32 PM
#100
10K+ Poster!!
Surely if its had a shed load of swarf go through the engine it neds pulling apart completely ?
All galleries, hoses and coolers need to be checked I'd of thought so guarantee it doesn't happen again ?
All galleries, hoses and coolers need to be checked I'd of thought so guarantee it doesn't happen again ?
17-12-2010, 07:41 PM
#101
07-01-2011, 08:57 PM
#103
Well I'll be taking another trip to EP to torrow morning.........
To collect my car!
I just want to say thank you (B4 i pick it up) to both Luke and Danny for putting up with ME while they have had it in their care.
Got some really good figures off Luke over the phone yesterday and today and now i cant bloody wait to get hold of it.
Would a nice dry day be to much to ask for???????
To collect my car!
I just want to say thank you (B4 i pick it up) to both Luke and Danny for putting up with ME while they have had it in their care.
Got some really good figures off Luke over the phone yesterday and today and now i cant bloody wait to get hold of it.
Would a nice dry day be to much to ask for???????
08-01-2011, 08:57 AM
#120
PassionFord Post Whore!!
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I was just thinking,150 odd ft/Lb is a standard Rs turbo at full torque at just above idle!!!!immense!!!!You could just waft about in that never really leaving 4th if you were feeling lazy one day,