Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

Are there any good books etc, like mapping for dummies lol?

chip is busy at the mo, and the 3dr is just sat in the garage ready to go, so im thinking about trying to start mapping it a bit, so i can then drive it get done properly.

only thing is, i dont have a fooking clue where to start

i can borrow a wideband lambda and make a set of det cans etc. i just need someone that can either map a bit, or tell me how lol

anyone?

GARETH T

ive never read a good book on the subject sadly

rs-tuner

iTrader: (1)

I'm the same would love to learn and have read 2 books on the subject but they didn't tell me anything I didn't allready know.

Mark Shead

Thats because there isnt, 50% of its fact and the other 50% is opinion.

Mark

rs-tuner

iTrader: (1)

Fancy doin some lessons Mark

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

so how do you learn mark?

i know experiance is paramount etc, but you must have learnt somewhere!!

ps how much do you charge for mapping lol?

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

FLMAO!!!!How very true that is!!!well funny


cheers danny

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

What management you on mate???



cheers danny

Mark Shead

I watched Ahmed for years before I jumped in mapping my own Evo in 2000,
I cant quoteand I only do Vipec/Autronic/Motec and Dream science ST.

Mark

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

ah, its on DTA S40

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

Luke can map dta mate give us a shout if your stuck...


cheers danny

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

i think your the other end of the country mate, im near swindon.

but if get totally stuck, i might give you a ring lol

GARETH T

i dont really understand your post,,, whats option?

Mark Shead

Its not a option its a opinion

Mark

GARETH T

i still dont understand it though LOL

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

Come on it takes me 1.30 hours to get to combe mate!!!whats up with you..lol
Youve spent all this cash on the engine etc and yet you cant be arsed to get it mapped to a decent level?????lol



cheers danny

Mark Shead

You should do as whats your opinion on mapping I am sure its not the same as mine and I am sure you belive you are right just like I belive im rightif you now understand if not ask Danny as I think he does.

Mark

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

What he means is no matter how well some one has mapped an engine some one else will still say they would of done something different as theres no one rule for any two engines the same....Hence 50% opinion....




cheers danny

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

ive severly run out of funds now mate!

and i can get donw your way in good time too, but now in a car i cant drive as its not mapped yet

i once got from burgess hill to swindon via a diversion on the m25 - 150 miles, 1h30m.

that was good going lol

GARETH T

we will both of different ways of doing the mapping, but it truth and technically there will be ONLY one way of doing it correctly surely?

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

That was good going and more or less exactly where we are....
You should have a chat via pm and see what we can do????


cheers danny

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

Thats exactly it,you will believe your way is better than mine or marks!!
The jap boys for example still map most of thier cars to 11.4 afr and imo thats too rich as would prefer as close to 12.6 depending on engine etc but a prime example of opinions!!


cheers danny

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

already sent you one lol

Mark Shead

Yes but what afr do you target on a cossie at 300 or 500 or 700hp what afr do you target in the spool area's,
What ignition do you target if mbt is a wide angle at full boost and spool what egt do you like on all of these area's, what injection end angle do you use.
As you see I am sure yours may be diff than mine so its at the 50% opinion area.

Mark

GARETH T

totally agree,, we will both aim for different air fuel ratios, (or they might be the same) but surely there is only one right answer?

Mark Shead

You would expect so but take a Evo mapped rich from the factory where a Focus ST 13.5afr at full boost till 5k and then drops to mid 11afr, Who's right other than one trying to save fuel.

Mark

GARETH T

we shouldnt compare apples to pairs.

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

But they are both engines and if what your saying is right then surely they should be the same????
Opinions you see!!!


cheers danny

SiZT

I'm guessing that Evo tuners aim for RBT and MBT on a dyno then?

Edit: Mostly

markk

iTrader: (2)

theres no point in burning fuel if you dont need to though mark

its not really saving fuel, its jusy not having to use it, sadly something alot of performance cars tuners over the last 40 years have never mastered

GARETH T

no, im not saying that, so please dont put words into my mouth.
i cant believe that you cant see that there is only one way to get the right results when all things are equal

SiZT

There is only 1 right answer, but theres many ways to get to the answer

GARETH T

ill end on this before i go to bed, engines dont run on magic, they run within the laws of physics and chemistry, so why should there be two ways of getting the right results?
now i do understand that sadly most of our engines are compromises and this can cause a difference of opinion, but if you study these compromises there still is only one true way of getting the desired results (whatever they are)

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

EXACTLY!!!!lol ^^^




cheers danny

GARETH T

you should of ended that sentence after the sixth word LOL (yes i did count "1" as a word) lol

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

I agree in theory your right but lets say 3 people tune the same car from scratch but they all have different results 1, is very quick and great on fuel 2, is very quick and feels a bit quicker at the top end but is shit on fuel 3,this one feels awesome and you really cant fault it ...
They all have different results so what ones right?????
It will all depend on the person who drives its opinion, unless theres something really obviously wrong its all down to 50% fact and 50% opinion..imo that is..


cheers danny

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

it shouldnt be difficult to get it running even if its driven just off boost then get it mapped by a pro on mapping zetecs, i dont think its worth the risk for the sake of £350 - £500

id love to play around with my pfc and crank some more boost and run 12 afr instead of 11.4, but the guy who mapped it knows a site more than me about it !

knowledge alone is useless without experience imo

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

mapping = gone over head

fuel tables, ignition advances, throttle angles, injector duration etc baffles the hell out of me. i would love to learn, but i dont have the time and i dont think i would trust myself without someone coaching me!

Danny @ Enhanced Performance

iTrader: (3)

The proof is in the pudding though...
If you can run your car say at 12.5 afr for example with no det and make more power then why isnt it????
Imo you can run around that afr and improve power and fuel economy as well as injector duty so a no brainer really???


cheers danny

SiZT

Something for you to think about in the morning Gareth. You could map to MBT and RBT or you could take it to the point of det and back off a bit and then run a leaner mixture. Both cars would probably put out the same power, both cars would have acceptable EGT's. Which one is the right answer?