gaz s1

i aint got a clue mate but 3/4 of the worlds in debt including europe so some fuckers minted who is lending this money out!!, will someone let me know as its never mentioned who we owe themoney to and i think we have a right to know!

gaz s1

you should be a politician mate you aint answered my question i take it you dont know either?

mrjenrst

Your just simple though! It's evident to a blind deafman with breathing difficulties and a clubfoot. But thank's for your input.

Skotie jay

itell me bout it would be nice to go borrow a few bill off him lamo

mrjenrst

See my above post

gaz s1

i say fuck em what they gonna do send the baliffs round we got nukes so i dont think so

Skotie jay

lmfao your calling me simple when your the one calling me a cunt yeah realy makes me simple.. your comments are like that of a confused politician that has listened to all what told an followed like a sheep. dont comment on my posts as your are about as intelligent as a brick wall!!

gaz s1

and wheres the answer??

Skotie jay

lmfao

Skotie jay

he dont know lmao just in over is lil head

gaz s1

STILL WAITING ffs this is hard work i guess he is googling as i type

I guess the official line will be it is too compilicated for us to understand like i couldnt understand mr......20 billion
mrs....................80 billion .etc

Skotie jay

lmfao would not surprise me he seems that type

mrjenrst

gaz s1

stop and give me my answer!!

Skotie jay

thats a comment are u gona answer gaz's question??? an stop as hes asked ???????

gaz s1

yea come on dont be embarrased if you dont know, i dont and neither does most other people in this country just own up and say youre simple like the rest of usand voted on paying back a debt you have never seen and aint got a clue who this money is owned to, whos the simple one now??, i voted on my beliefs, why did you vote tory, genuinely interested did you read there manifesto before you voted for them,? or just jumped on the(we need a change) bandwagon because if you did i think you are going to end up disapointed

mrjenrst

you've outsmarted me mate. I'd love to stick around but bangbabe's is on and i thought i just saw some lady bit's so i'll go watch that and leave you clever people to talk.

gaz s1

ah fair play mate so you are just as simple as the rest of us or maybe even a bit more as you voted on paying back a debt that you dont understand anyway, any chance of a loan?

Skotie jay

lmao

Skotie jay

ps been entertaining lmao nyte

gaz s1

yea time for bed im sure the usual intelligent people on here will reveal all on our mysterious worldwide money lenders tommorow and i await the full breakdown of names, amount owed to who and what big muscly brutes they sound round when we default and have all our homes and cars repossesed

benjaminsarmy

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/codes-basics.htm

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i work for someone who pays osmeone else to work this shit out

so if it's their fault it's their fault

Iain Mac

It's been a while since I read a thread as ill-informed as this one.

Immigrants are getting jobs because they will either work harder, smarter or cheaper than the "English" people. (Scotland, Wales and Ireland have similar issues too). Often, they are taking jobs that the Brits don't want to do at all.

Painting faces with shoe-polish to go to the job centre. My arse. If that had happened in the real world, the story would have made the media and people would have been fired.

Labour DID fuck things up and were able to then blame the worldwide recession. The trouble does seem to have started in the USA, mainly over bad lending decisions, but who deregulated our banks to allow them to invent, buy and sell financial instruments that they didn't even understand? Or to value them as worth something when the borrowers plainly had no means of repaying the loan on the tumbledown house they had used it to buy?

The ConDem coalition won't last but they have to be seen to do something, so they are starting with the biggest problems - inefficiency and scroungers.
The working/family tax credit is shit and should be scrapped. Simple question - how much are you ENTITLED to with either of these benefits? No, I can't find the answer either, or how to work it out. So these "benefits" should go. The sheer amount of paper and admin work that these "benefits" generate must cost an absolute fortune so they can't possibly be an efficient method if redistributing wealth.

One sensible thing on here was getting out of Europe. Absolutely right. And it is only going to get worse, but never forget that, love her or hate her, it was Maggie Thatcher (Conservative) that negotiated our rebate, and Tony Blair (Labour) who started giving it away. Why Ted Heath (Conservative) and co ever signed us up to be (I think) the second biggest net contributor after Germany) is a mystery. UKIP is a single issue arty and although I agree with their sentiment, the business of running the country while we get disentangled from the EC is just too big a job for them - their recent leader just stepped down saying he wasn't very good at politics FFS. And as for the BNP - shame on anyone who thinks that bunch are worth the spit on a stamp for a postal vote

The second good idea I saw was a minimum level for everyone to earn before they pay any tax - I don't knw if Ł15k is the right level, but the principle is ok.

The other was the suggestion to pay more income tax and stop all the other hidden taxes. That's an attractive idea but 30% won't come close to covering the other taxes, and it would have the effect of discouraging enterprise - like it or not, if the taxman is going to take 70-90% of everything you earn, why fucking bother? At least with tax on spending, there is an element of discretion about what YOU choose to do with your cash - invest it, go on holiday, do up old cars, piss it against the wall, or whatever.

People who have overpaid tax should be let off and those underpaid should be given it. I have some sympathy with that simplistic view, but should all those first lot get some free cash but not everyone else? That doesn't seem fair, so maybe we should ALL get a cheque to top us up to the same level of free cash as the worst example of underpayment? It would be nice, but WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!


Who do we owe the money to

and why don't we just not pay the debt and tell the lenders to fuck off because we've got nukes? Well, if you borrow off a mate then tell him to fuck off, do you think he'll be stupid enough to lend to you again or advise any one else to do so? And that's quite apart from whether he comes round one night and kicks your head in/takes your plasma telly & Blu-Ray.
The UK, like most countries, runs on borrowed money that comes from banks, other countries, the IMF sometimes and from individual and corporate investors who buy Gilts - Government promises to repay. The day that we renege on one of those is the day that - at best - our borrowing rates shoot up. At worst, we can't get the cash at all, and then we can't afford to run the country and provide all the "free" services we take for granted, like the police, fire, ambulances, hospitals, schools, roads, etc, etc.

This website explains it all better than I can. If you are REALLY as interested as you've made out, go read this and then come back and share your new-found wisdom with the rest of us.
http://www.debtbombshell.com/

FredElliot

You sir strike me as someone who hasn't got the first fucking clue about the tax system.

Here is a brief example of how the sliding scale works:

Ive assumed simple workings of all 52 weeks being paid to make it easier to follow:

Minimum wage of Ł5.80 x 37 hours x 52 weeks = Ł11,159 per year.

Ł20 hr job x 37 hours x 52 weeks = Ł38,480 per year


Tax on minimum wage earner = National Insurance of Ł597.52, income tax of Ł935.40. Total Tax Ł1532.92

Total left = Ł9,619 or 86% of what they originaly earned.

Tax on Ł20 hr worker = National Insurance of Ł3603, Income Tax of Ł6401. Total Tax Ł10,004.

Total left = Ł28,475 or 73% of what they originaly earned.

SO - the higher earner although left with more money at the end (as they started with more in the first place) has had a higher percentage taken off them in tax.

That is before we get into the realms of the 50% tax bracket, or even the no mans land between Ł100k and Ł113k where the tax allowances are reduced tapering off to zero, effectively giving a tax rate of 60% on that section of earnings. Oh and if there are kids thrwn in as well, the minimum wage earner will be due further tax credits as the over Ł30k earner wont.

So before you launch into some sort of heated debate about the tax system, hows about you get a fucking clue about it.

The sliding scale on tax most certainly does NOT advantae the rich over the poor. If it did, why do you think so many of the countries top earners ar not registered to pay tax in this country?

This whole idea of the rich can afford to pay more, so they should, is just complete toss.

If we put that same methodology into supermarkets then a loaf of bread would be charged at different rates depending on what you earn.

How would you feel if you saw someone buying a loaf of bread and they got charged Ł1, yet when you buy that same loaf of bread they charged you Ł2.

If you earn twice as much as them, why shouldnt you pay more? You can afford it?

Hows about car parts, car insurance, road tax etc? I you earn Ł20k a year why shouldnt you pay twice as much as someone earning just Ł10k - you can afford it so why not?

Its just what you seem to think should happen on income tax, so why not go the whole hog?

st3v3

well how ever way this is looked at, I feel for the people who have to pay back Ł100 a month,I know I wouldn't want to do that (just my luck that I will owe rather than be owed)

best of luck to everyone.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

apparently, usain bolt didn't run in a competition here in the uk because he would have had to pay 50% of ALL his earnings EVERYWHERE as tax to the british government

so he rightly told them to get fucked

later on he got injured and that was the official excuse

it's the same reason that button and hamilton and loads of other rich peeps don't live over here, they'd be well fucked if they had to had over half or more of their money as tax, and lets not go into that footballer who signed for a premiership club for a big lump of money each week and then found out that he'd have to pay 50% of it in tax

saff_cossie

At last some intelligent replies from Iain Mac and FredElliot. Turned it into an interesting read. Having left the UK a few years back, I only see media reports from this side of the world. Thanks for taking the time to post those up.

Skotie jay

lmao very interesting i was mearly stating the fact that people that earn min wage will suffer more!! the part about working tax credit made me smile as when i signed off was told by the jcp to apply for working tax credit, an to my surprise when speaking to them was told i need to be on more than 30 hrs a week. ok so there a big gap between 17 an 30 imo. as u cant sign on when working over 15.59hrs a week. also the part where u put that over 30k u cant get it is wrong as i was told that u can apply for it if your earning 55k or less by the lady i was speaking to on the phone so can u explain this??? im not he most best person with tax an never at any point did i state i was. i pay some one that knows what they doing as being self employed i just cba to do the forms an i know a few accounts that do it very well!!

Skotie jay

ok maybe i miss read some of the post appolgise hard when im sitting in my council house which u lot are paying for with my ten kids shoutiing an screaming whilst im burning a bit fat zoot that u lot brought me with my giro lmfao

FredElliot

The main problem we have is that due to increases in benefit over the years it has now become mathematically possible to be better off out of work than in work.

Until this mathematical anomaly has ceased, no ammount of tinkering with the tax system will work, or at least be perceived to be working in favour of ANYONE who holds a job regardless of the level of income.

As for the income levels at which tax credits apply - its all dependent on circumstances. If you follow the online checker as soon as you answer that you have children under 16, and have an income less than Ł58k you are entitled. Answer that you dont have any children and there are quite a few more questions.

In short, over 16, married, in full time employment, earning more than Ł18k and you probably wont get a penny. Pop a kid or two out and you will.

Again, with the benefits system we have in place, people dont actually need to consider whether they can afford children or not before having them, as the taxpayer will bridge the gap.

Obviously this doesnt account for people who could afford children at the time of conception but then fell on rocky times - which I believe the system should support as no doubt they will have contributed enough in tax for the system to help them out when they get caught short.

The system however seems to be used more and more by people who didn't actually consider finances when starting a family.

Supporting those who find themselves in difficulty is one thing, having the system support those who actually see it as a career is quite another.

FredElliot

Having read and digested Iains post, his response to yours above will most probably make me cry with laughter. Im not about to point out the multitude of oversights and inaccuracies you just made, but am sure I will find this thread quite amusing when I return from the garden later.

Im starting to wonder whether I can opt out of any contribution to the education system on my PAYE. I reckon posts like this could be used to formulate a very strong case for a refund.

Mark_

how do i find out if im one of those that owes money?
or is it a case of sitting tight and wait for the letter

Cragrat

iTrader: (4)

yup think you gonna have to wait till postman pat has called mate

been over 12 months for tax man to sort out a cock-up they made with one of my employees tax code,left hand not knowing what the right hand has come into play,so the cjances of them letting you know if ya ring em are pretty slim

Skotie jay

Iain Mac

I'm going to reply to each of your points patiently and using only small words that are easy to spell and understand. (Bugger, that's a big one!).
Mods - can we get a "patronising tone" smiley?

And please, please, don't tell me you have dyslexia - the whole world now suffers from dyslexia, attention deficit disorder or peanut allergies - none of these existed when I was wee, but they are all great excuses.

Working Tax Credit and Family Tax Credit are two different things that seem to be driven by the same nonsensical system. You can get one and not the other, or both or neither. So why have two different credits?
It's all just a total crock of Labour party politicking designed to win votes and influence people but anyone who looked at it from either side of the class divide knew it was nonsensical to pay benefit to anyone on Ł55k a year (or whatever the upper limit actually is) or to restrict access to the the benefit if you are working just enough hours to come off JSA.
Joined up government under the last lot? My arse.

If I thought you could read any better than you can spell, I'd mark you down as a Daily Mail right-winger, but then you go off and slate the Tories. Confused.com could have been written for you.
If something like a BA check-in woman wearing a cricifix can get the publicity it did, trust me when I say that a headline like "Racist Asian immigrant at jobcentre denies benefits to hard working white Englishman" would have sold some newspapers by the truckload, your man would have been on the teatime news and we'd ALL have heard the story, even us up here in the woolly north. At worst, it would have merited a paragraph in the Birmingham Evening News (or whatever the local paper is actually called). You appear to agree that the story would have generated publicity, so where is it? Like all the best scientists say, "Pics or STFU!"

The UK Government used UK taxpayers money (as well as cash borrowed in the money markets) to prop up just SOME UK banks that got into difficulties. Rather than just handing over the cash they took a shareholding in these banks, and these banks continue to trade and provide employment (albeit to smaller numbers of people than before), have now returned to profitability and will PROBABLY make us a decent return on our (unwilling) investment when the Government finally sells off our new shareholdings.
Contrary to popular belief, not all banks needed or received the Government (taxpayers) cash - examples off the top of my head include HSBC, Barclays and National Australia (Yorkshire & Clydesdale). Most did sign up to a guarantee scheme, but that was about the Government (taxpayers) underwriting the loans they made to get the economy moving more than a direct cash injection. Otherwise banks could have sat back, gathered their cash in, and the country's economy would grind to a halt with no investment in R&D, plant & machinery, training and development of staff, etc.
And then, of course, there are how many hundreds or thousands of foreign banks who have nothing to do with this country but buy our Gilts as investments that provide a reasonable return with little or no risk attached? Why do you think that we owe them anything other than the interest and return that was promised when we took their cash?

No disagreement there, but I don't see you or me standing up and asking everyone else to vote for us because we think we could do better. If I'm inspiring you to give it a go, can I suggest that you develop your own theories on problems AND solutions, before you go public?

I'm guessing that you didn't follow that link I provided or, if you did, you got bored and came back here to spout more rubbish, because if you had stuck with it you would know that it is all written and presented by a single individual who has no affiliation to me or to any government.
I don't actually think I believe everything or even most of what I see and hear of this or any other government. I gather information from a number of sources, compare that information to what I see in front of me, and reach my own conclusions.
Try it - you might like it!

You really don't get "irony" do you. Maybe you are American?
The quotation marks that I used on "free" are intended to demonstrate that, while we don't pay for these things at the point of use, we do actually pay for them.

Road tax is a very old term that has stuck around because it describes what we pay it for, not what the money is spent on.
Your Vehicle Excise Duty is actually a tax on the ownership of the car and, like most other taxes, the money it raises is not devoted to a single purpose (i.e. ringfenced).
Instead, it goes into the general taxation pot which is then distributed to different government departments and to local authorities, each of whom decides on their spending priorities.
VED does not directly contribute a single penny to the upkeep of roads, but the Transport Department gets its budget from the general taxation pot and some of that is used to maintain motorways and major trunk roads.
Local Councils also use some of the money they get from central government to maintain roads, but they also use money raised from Council Tax and business rates to pay for these and other council services.

Please don't think I'm having a go at you just because you are raising stupid points. I'm having a go because two minutes research of independent sources would lay these ridiculous ideas to rest in your own mind.

Frankly it is scary that anyone who appears so willing to believe whatever shit is served up to them by the press, opposition politicians, or their mate down the pub, (you know, the one with shoe-polish still behind his ears) is allowed to vote and influence how the country is to be run!!!

And, for the record I have never voted Labour or Liberal/LibDem in my life, and only once for the Tories, but that was more about the local MP than his party choice. Sadly he died and they never had my vote since then.

Iain Mac

So I'm not alone in wondering why so many young folk get pregnant with nowhere to live together or visible means of raising their new family?

I can't make up my mind if the biggest problem is the guys who think it is OK to shag any girl who will let them before moving on to the next (been there, done that) and abandoning each girl with whatever offspring he "blesses" her with (luckily/happily never done that!), or the girls that WANT to get pregnant so they can get a flat of their own and the benefits to pay for it?

With advances in DNA nowadays I'd have thought it was fairly straightforward to test the possible fathers and dock them the money to help raise the children they have fathered.
If the girl won't tell, she should get nothing too - there are plenty of people wanting to adopt.
In fact, that could be the single strongest argument I've ever heard for having a national DNA database - no escaping your trail of kids, then, boys!!!

Maybe, instead of giving them flats, unemployed mothers with no means of support should be sent to live in hostels where child-care training could be offered, as well as day-care while the wee women go off and do a days work or training to help them get a job to support themselves?

Even I think that sounds a bit right-wing, but how long can we keep paying to raise more and more unskilled generations to live on the dole?

saff_cossie

Superb replies ^^

Sat here waiting for a rain shower to pass in Canada and this has entertained me over lunch, particularly the American bit!

Teenage pregnancies is a sore point for me, knowing how many girls I went to school with became pregnant to jump up the council housing list. A complete disgrace and pushes others in genuine need down.

The economy has been vastly different down here but some similar principles applied to ensure it was stimulated as needed. UK interest rates on mortgages would be a dream now considering our base rate is 4.5%.

Deriving information from multiple sources is key to forming any opinion. The Internet would be a wonderful place if everything was fact.

gaz s1

Iian mac my comment on nukes was tongue in cheek hense the, it was early in the morning and i had had too many nelsons and was just enjoying winding the other lad up as he was calling other people stupid if they didnt vote tory and he did not have a clue himself in the reasons why he did and i was just amusing myself while very drunk, its only the internet after all

Iain Mac

Don't worry about it - I don't.

Simple fact is that if we renege on a legitimate debt, either as individuals, companies or countries, we are really pretty shit.

Many hard-working people in this country and abroad will have a pension where some of the fund is invested in Gilts, so what are we going to do - tell them to piss off and find another income in their retirement?
Personally, I'd rather like to be lucky enough to have a pension but I don't, so some of the youngsters coming up into the world of work will have to pay to look after me in my dotage - revenge is sweet!!!!