STAFFY OWNER

What are your opinions on legalising currently illegal drugs?

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.a...ntid=154420251

At first i should imagine most people would be horrified by the suggestion but on giving it further thought there could be some major plus points. If drugs were able to be bought legally at registered/certified outlets (pharmacies would seem to be the most logical places) they could be controlled more stringently in terms of what they contain, it would take the supply out of the hands of major criminal gangs, it may also be easier to wean addicts off their drugs as they could be supplied in various levels of "strength" so that they could gradually be reduced in strength until the addict was completely free of them.

At first thought if it could be properly handled my personal opinion would be to legalise them even though i hate the misuse of drugs. What do you all think?

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

Wouldn't make a difference. Dealers would still deal and probably be cheaper than what ever taxation the government would include.
Most people who take drugs do so because they are trying to escape from something. Not because they are hooked on them. You will find most addicts want to be addicts, because at least then they have an excuse for all their short comings.

There will always be an abundance of pathetic people who need drugs to "improve" either their situations or social skills.

Also, the government only clears drugs that keep the population producing. Beta blockers, mood stabilizers etc.. what ever keeps you working and paying your taxes. Most "recreational" drugs do the complete opposite of those so I cant imagine them ever being legalized.

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

Keep them illegal simple's

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

It shouldnt happen.

rubinsbin

is it good to drive around on drugs??---
good idea to commit theft robbery on drugs???
didnt mean to i was on drugs!!-sorry
and theres an arguement for legalising drugs???---------must be the drugs users
PERSONALLY I HOPE THEY ALL OVERDOSE-END OF STORY

scottyrs

iTrader: (1)

dont legalise them i say they wreck lives IMO

rog

iTrader: (2)

Most ridiculous idea, EVER.

Fiddy

i agree with staffy owner TBH. its deffinatly worth looking into. the two most addictive substances know to man are alcohol and tobacco, fact. i appreciate the comments about drug driving, and agree, but is drink driving ANY worse ?. they wreck lives, does alcohol not wreck the lives of alcoholics ?. the amount of drug money that feeds straight back into criminal world is massive, you eliminate that, there is no more drug dealers, which is obviously a good thing, IF they legalise certain drugs, they could be made by big companies, like breweries make alcohol, and would be a lot safer than street drugs, a lot cheaper, eliminate crime of 'feeding the habit', and the government could make a fortune from taxing it. you have to look at it from both sides, and like everything else there are pro's and con's obviously, but its not something that should be dismissed out of hand IMHO. now im not saying make all drugs legal, some are bad news full stop, but certainly look into recreational drugs at least, and see how that goes, then if successfull, look into harder drugs. take amsterdam for example, they havnt had an adverse affect from legalising certain drugs, in fact, its the opposite, i read an interview a while ago on skynews, where they interviewed the cheif of police in amsterdam on the said subject, and he said as long as you police the areas where the drugs are sold correctly, and have rules in place, like only smoking in the cafe's etc, its not a problem what so ever, and they amount of money it puts into the economy is insane.

Darylc.

iTrader: (1)

some should, others shouldn't.

Some need stricter laws, like heroin and meth. And I'm talking like death for smuggling, life for selling and 8 years for possesion regardless of amount.

Other, lower class party drugs, should be legalised.

Unrealated point - Queen Victoria loved to smoke cannabis.

alistairolsen

There is an interesting comparison to be drawn with the years of prohibition in the US where virtually overnight a gang culture and massive smuggling industry sprang up.

Conversely, if the price is too high then a black market will still exist with all the same problems we have today.

One of the biggest issues IMO is that while adults will get and take it if they want to, there is a danger that because it is legal and pure it is considered intrinsically safe, increasing circulation in ill-informed, impressionable youths.

Roscco

70% of all crime is drug related.

Outright legalisation is miles away.

Best we can hope for is decriminalization kinda like Holland has, heavy taxed and sort of tollerated in specific areas.
As has already been stated, there is overwhelming evidence that if correctly implimented and policed the pros far outweigh the cons.

Ofcourse this has only beeen done with the lower class drugs so any scheme involving the so called 'harder' drugs would be a case that needs to be proven.

This is only true up and until the point where 'legal' stuff can be sold less than the cost of illegal production, shipping, distrrbution...... Not to mention the fact that street quality will be FAR FAR below pharmacutical.

Perhaps your first sentence here may be true, but believe me, after there your sorely misguided my friend.

Would this still be you attitude if a family member was caught up in the cycle of things ??

Finally as a last thought,
What are peoples thoughts of legalisation (specificly Heroin) to aid with addiction ? Keep in mind that results from trials in Germany, Switzerland and even London have shown success rates in stabalising life style to be higher than those gained with methadone.

Thinking about my own situation (yes brought on by myself, and no i don't blame anyone else) I think it's a step in the right direction without going full scale.

gaz s1

I was going to do a long post but whats the point!!, all im saying is making it illegal aint stopped it, aint preventing the crime caused by harder drugs and imagine how much a year we spend trying to stop it?

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

i think that widescale legalisation of class A or similar drugs can NEVER be acceptable.

However, legalisation on prescription of heroin (or similar drugs that lead to severe addiction) for registered addicts, much like the methadone programs is a good idea. Simple finances say its a good idea!! the cost to society of a large number of addicts being forced to commit crime to fund the cost of drugs shows it would be better to have it available cheaply on prescription as it removes the need to commit the crime which can only be a good thing.

Im sure there will be some addicts who will not want to register just like theres some moronic addicts who wont go to local drug links and get free needles preferring to borrow dirty needles off thier mate but you cant rule out complete stupidity.

It surprised me as at the shopping centre we often moved on drug users and from talking to them often they would not get clean needles off drug link which was less than 100 yards away!!

i dont agree that society should be paying for people who are addicts to get free drugs and shit loads of benefits because in 99.9% of cases people have got themselves addicted. And in my opinion people need to want to change before they ever do. But im realistic enough to realise that paying for drugs on prescription for addicts would on balance be the lesser of two evils.

i do think the police and legal system need to be far more aggressive and harsh on drug crime in general, especially class A and B stuff. 70% crime being related to drugs says it all. And i mean more aggressive and oppressive policing on the streets on drugs, harsher sentancing etc etc. People who want help should get it. BUT you get one chance and one chance only. We cant afford to keep repeat sending people to detox and rehab and repeat sending them for counselling only for them to throw it back in our faces and becoming an addict again!!

I feel part of the process needs the law changing. Especially in terms of the mental health act/mental capacity act and drug addiction. IMO it is clear that some heavily addicted people are, due to the drugs, simply not strong enough or not willing enough to break the addiction cycle as the draw of the drugs is so strong. Now in a modern society where we want people to take responsibility for thier actions (as police and MP's keep saying) we need to accept that some people for whatever reason (be it mental disability or addiction) are mentally incapable of making sane and rational choices. Hence why we have the MHA and MCA so that these people are treated and protected as well as the public. I feel its time that with addicts it should be included under the realms of the MHA and MCA to enforce compulsory treatment in many cases. People ive spoken to who are addicted claim they have been in and out of rehab etc but keep going back to drugs. we as a society need to stop those individuals by force if necessary.

if you were suffering psychosis and kept taking massive risks and were a danger to yourself then you would be sectioned for your own safety and eventually that would escalate to long term hospitalisation if needed. That should be the same with addictive drugs.

yes that is harsh, but i feel necessary. Sure there will always be some who will never want to change, and would end up in hospital for life as you cant force people to change (and our society wont accept "putting down/euthanaising" lost causes) but most addicts would eventually want to change and benefit from not having the easy option available to them any more.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The trouble is, everything I feel says they should be legal because:
It would put their distribution into the hands of someone other than criminals
It would mean quality control checks could be done
Im a proponent of free will, people should be allowed to do things they choose to do even if they are fucking stupid
Being illegal only lowers their uptake at best not stops it
People are finding an increasing number of "legal highs" and as fast as one is banned another is found, and the side effects of them all make things like cannibis seem quite mild

HOWEVER
I know that in reality if they were legal their use WOULD increase, and for that reason alone, I feel that they should stay illegal, and it outweighs all my other arguments and feelings, the problem is that we live in a society full of stupid uneducated cunts who are daft enough to want to through this shite into themselves, so if we hand them freewill to do so we'll be inundated with more drug addicts.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

i see your point chip but in my opinion the world doesnt owe anyone a living and certainly in the case of drug addicts why should society stump up the bill for people who choose to get wasted?? we both know that in the case of legalisation we would have another subsection of the "benefit class" ie those who are smashed all the time so cant work and claim instead

but that could be solved by removing the "handout" society we have created. We would then end up back were we started as scum then couldnt afford the legal drugs as theyve no benefit money and are incapable of work due to addiction so would be committing crime again (albeit at a lower rate).

its a difficult balance to get right!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Drugs cost us a fortune wether they are legal or illegal.

Either way the treatment costs far more than the policing.

If I came to power there wouldnt be any drug addicts for the simple reason that not only would it be illegal to use drugs, it would be a capital offence on the 3rd conviction, like the crime of morbid obesity would and for the same reason, to save innocent lives by redirecting precious NHS funds back to the innocent and away from the self inficted.
Sounds unfair but there would be MASSIVE resource available for the first 2 offences to ensure that no one worth saving was lost.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

unfortunately the bleeding heart liberals and nancys would never allow such a thing as "nobody is inherrantly bad" or "they are misunderstood" etc etc etc Or blame thier childhood so its not thier fault they murdered a 80 year old to rob her Ł60 a week pension to pay for the next fix

just in the same way the liberal cunts think that its not CHAVs fault for the way they act

david 100

Make them legal and free then with a bit of luck the drugies will kill their fucking selfs

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I also am liberal in my views, the first 2 times that anyone was found guilty of taking drugs they would be placed into a secure hospital where they would get the best available advice and treatment and remain until they have been clean for 3 months, they would be tested for being clean by being left in an empty room for 1 hour with some of the drug that they had done and told not to take it.
If they fail the test, thats still their first strike and its 3 more months of treatment.

The 3rd time they are caught they would be executed.

so everyone would get a very fair chance.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

as much as i agree it would work chip, same 3 strikes then death with certain crimes too, i think wed need a military dictatorship and removal of democracy to get anywhere near it!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, but that happened first in this case as it said "if i came to power" and i dont ever plan on doing so in a democracy.

juicy 666

Legalise it, Tax it.

Takes all proceeds away from "criminals"
More regulation means cleaner drugs
Money made from taxing it could help considerably with national debt
takes the illegal nature away from it which would probably deter some people

Look at Holland when they decriminalised weed. at first there was a surge as everyone who hadn’t tried it because it was illegal tried it but then after a year or two usage dropped dramatically. Holland has one of the lowest weed smoking populations in the world. majority of smoke sold there is to tourists. UK has the largest smoking population in Europe at least!

I know I am concentrating on weed as a smoker obviously I want it legal but I think you would have to make everything illegal unless something comes along which can pretty much guarantee death and the destruction of a human being. so far only really alcohol and tobacco come into that criteria being the 2 biggest killers of all drugs currently available no matter what the press/media tell you!

For example all the hoo ha about Mcat (meow meow) what most people didn’t care about was that the people who were taking it were taking other things too. Taking uppers and Downers although quite a nice feeling is not good for your heart as it doesn’t know if to speed up or slow down possibly causing palpitations.

make it legal and it could solve many problems and make it a safer environment for everyone!

how many people want to take heroin? not many i hear but if you are into something smaller and your dealer says oh i aint got non in but I got some ket. go a few months down the line and eventually it could be no sorry got non of that but i got some wikid smack. I know cos it has been something that has happened to me but I know what I like and I know what they all do physically and mentally so it was easier to say no but some people may not be as strong willed and just want to get high.

im sorry for the rant and I know its a bit disjointed (lol) but its a subject i feel very strongly about.

Agree with me or not I don’t particularly mind or care I just think we as human beings should be allowed to make some decisions ourselves!

I could argue all day for the pro’s and cons but im open minded and everyone can have an opinion but any argument you have I know how you feel or what you mean!

To end on a quote that I really like and this is aimed at the religious types (FAO I was very religious until I grew up)

“Making Marijuana illegal is like saying that god made a mistake. How can you make nature against the law? Its fucking nature!!!

That’s my pennies worth! Spliff time!

dangerousbrian

correct me if im wrong but these twostatements seem to contradict. your a believer in free will and doing what you want (providing they arent a menace to innocent others i presume), yet you then say if you came to power they would be killed if caught three times..
its a hard one choosing which drug would be legal..recreational drugs would be the first to be considered im guessing, but what about ecstasy when one pill can kill you..everything would have to be quality controlled somehow to keep it safeish..problem is the country would probably get inundated with new legal drugs every 5 minutes, by companies/people wanting to cash in on the next best high..all imo of course

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Certainly.

You're wrong.


No contradictional at all mate, I said that DESPITE some of my other beliefs my overwhelming feeling is that they SHOULD be illegal.

And with regards to free will, I only mean I support it for the educated, not for everyone, I would have thought that very clear from my post where I stated that the reason I believe they should be illegal inspite of my free will opinions is largely that people arent capable of thinking for themselves properly.

Dlatch!

Strong argument for the legalisation of all drugs

i think the reduction in organised crime would be well worth it and after a initial surge of user numbers it would gradually decline.
as a side benefit you would have a vast tax income that could be put towards helping those that have drug use issues, and hopefully some money leftover to mend the potholed roads we have to put up with

what i would wonder is where the government would get the drugs from? maybe all the dealers would go legit, would be a very interesting situation with the potential to go either way but as making drugs illegal don't work the next sensible step has to be legalisation.
i would start with heroin if it works with that then it will work for all drugs.

Graham S1

Yes, because the current "war on drugs" is really working lol...

juicy 666

I love "the war on drugs" cos it makes out that we are winning a war and we don't even know it! We don't even like fighting and we are still winning!

Graham S1

Too true. Our brains actually have cannaboid receptors, so we are actually designed/evolved to use it! Don't ever remember anything about alchohol receptors!

dangerousbrian

haha


so where do you draw the line on whos educated enough or not? so from what you are saying is i would be dead by now under your regime..i have a few joints a night..yet i dont steal to buy them or cause anyone else any bother whilst smoking them..but im not 'educated' enough as you put it about drugs in general..where would i fit in when you come to power?

mrjenrst

now lets just make a slight change to that,

ah,that's also true

mrjenrst

class a's should never be legalised, end of!

now other drug's should be made legal on there own merrit imho.

Blunt.RS

iTrader: (7)

legalise cannabis
make achocol illegal and keep ambulances free on the weekends for actuacully emergencys

Iain Mac

Why should it be anyone else's business what someone chooses to put in their body?

I absolutely deplore drugs and drug-taking, because I can see the harm that they do, but don't feel I have a right to tell anyone else not to do it.

I do have a right not to allow addicts to steal my stuff to pay for their habit, or to shoplift, steal cars or whatever else they have to do to get by - but if they turn to prostitution that isn't any of my business either.

Legal drugs sold in Boots or WH Smith can have proper quality control of ingredients, strength etc and so avoid some of the deaths we see, and as the drugs can now be taxed, the sad muppets taking the drugs can actually contribute for their future welfare instead of lining the pockets of some criminal.

Also, i don't see a high street store taking a stolen telly as payment, do you?

The simple fact is that Prohibition doesn't work - the USA proved that almost 100 years ago and are still stuck with a criminal underworld that wouldn't have grown so strong without their alcohol (and now drug) profits.

juicy 666

Canabanoids latch on and react with your brain and alcohol is just mild poison! Ain't noone ever died of weed poisoning because the LD:50 is far too high! Ya fall asleep if ya try! Not the same for all drugs but all drugs react or release chemicals in your brain be it dopamine, serotonin, canabanoids! Alcohol just poisons you!

STAFFY OWNER

Some interesting points of view and to be honest most of them make some valid points on both sides of the argument. When i put my original post up i meant to say that whilst i agree with legalisation in principle if it could be properly managed/policed, i still feel that it should not be implied that drug taking was acceptable. The trouble is as soon as you make something legal it removes any social stigmas that may have actually put a person off doing the original illegal action in the first place. For example as it is illegal to walk into Comet/Currys/John Lewis or wherever and steal a telly people don't do it because they don't want to suffer from the stigma of being classed as a thief if they get caught but if on the other hand it was suddenly made legal to help yourself to a telly in these same outlets then everyone would be doing it because nobody is going to think anything less of them.
Basically i think that if it was ever legalised it should be made clear that it was being done for crime and health management reasons (and the extra tax generated would be handy for the country) and not because it was suddenly an acceptable practice.

juicy 666

If it was legalised everyone who didn't want to try when it was illegal would try it and more likely than not (referring back to holland in the 70s) there would be a big boom and then people would get bored or realise it wasn't for them! Give people a choice is all it boils down to! It's your body do what you want with it! Your right not those fuckers who wanna tell you how to live YOUR RIGHT!

JjCoDeX75

Interesting topic!

I think there are merits in both options. My point of view below!

My concern is that there is a touch of hypocracy in our current system, wihch allows us to smoke (which is horrifically addictive and utterly pointless - I am an ex-smoker, so I do understand!) and drink. these two things contribute a massive burden to our Health Service, wihch is only partially offset by the tax and revenues that are generated.


Nonetheless, two wrongs dont make a right, and in addition I think that the likely cost of policing, legislating, and regulating the industry, combined with both the known and likely unknown health treatment costs are probably going to more than absorb any additional tax revenue that may be created by the legalisation process.

The net result of the above is that it would in my opinion at least create an additional taxation burden on our struggling country.

Based on the above, combined with my massively selfish streak that requires me to pay less tax, not more irrespective of the potential benefits, I must side with keeping them very much illegal!!!!

Now prositution on the other hand.....


JJ

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

direct from manufacturer is the best way. somewhere like afghan would work well as it could be run on "fair trade" principles ensuring the farmer gets a fair wage. Would ironically break the hold the taliban have to an extent

although i do NOT agree that Heroin and other highly addictive drugs should be street legal as they ARE too dangerous to be experimenting with.

I cant imagine the legalised drugs would be massively cheaper than now due to taxation. So imagine then a heroin addict, soon becoming incapable of work would still need money to feed his habbit so would still commit crime but instead of handing his stolen money to a dealer he would hand it to Boots the chemist plus some addicts pay for thier drugs using stolen goods and that would stop so the rate of money for stolen goods would go down as the addict wants cash so in essence he'd have to steal more to get the same drugs.

plus as ive said earlier i dont think someone is mentally capable of choosing to come off heroin once heavily addicted. Hence you just cannot legalise drugs like heroin for street use.

because something like heroin is never just going to effect the user. friends family etc not to mention as i said above the return to crime to fund the habbit when said junkie cant hold down a job....

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Canabis would be allowed, as would alcohol, in moderation, you would be fine.

There would be a permitted amount for both, like the current drink drive laws, and it would only be if you failed that on your MOT or during a random test that you would have a problem

Everyone would be required to have an MOT, no pass = no NHS for you till you do pass, but like a car, if its not just a failure, its a bad failure, it wouldnt be allowed to leave the testing station until rectified, wether that be for obesity, excessive alcohol or smoking beyond the allowed limits.

JjCoDeX75

chip - I am a little worried about the obsesity rules in Chip britain - I have so far managed to solve the problem by growing up as well as out, but I am running out of spare height for my appetite!!!!!

JJ