mrjenrst

i've never said no such thing,
afaik everybody who needed care got it, i'm a great believer in the N.H.S and think they do a fantastic job under the pressure they're under.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes you did, you said they were given NO HELP at all from anything funded by the uk taxpayer/government.

If they were given help by the NHS, then why did you say they were not given any help?

mrjenrst

was any of that a direct quote? no.
stop been so pedantic, not everyone share's the same view's get over it.

my statement of they got no help was a sweeping one i admit, but it was more aimed at the aftermath. but if you want to word it like that you go knock yourself out fella.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

This is the direct quote:
And my point is that they did, via the nhs, the fire service, the police etc


sweeping and inaccurate

Its not true for the aftermath either, medical care continued and im sure for some still does to this day if they got permenant injuries, unless you just mean they didnt get new tvs unless they were insured? In which case its pretty irrelevant to this thread disucssing urgent food and medical and basic inftrastructure help, so ALL the things that people over here did get and yet you dismiss as nothing.

chettle

For all the people who say Pakistan has nothing to offer... its only got to be as little as Pakistan Importing British made cars, £10million is NOTHING when it comes to imports, they still spent $28.31 billion last year on imports alone.....

a quick google will bring up the main imports and exports, and you will see theres a great cross with what Britain exports and what Pakistan imports!.... so a little trade deal will nicely soften the blow...

Then theres also the fact of MASSIVE ammounts of mineral deposits being found pretty close to pakistan in Afganistan.... whats to say without a little more research they wont be in a similar position?


At the end of the day its 20p per person, which will more than likely come back to us anyway... even if only 20p of that gets back to the people in need, do you really think those kids will grow up and want to blow up the very people that helped them?

i feel this will get picked apart.... fuck em.... go visit a Third World country and tell me you wouldnt give 20p to help....

dojj

iTrader: (3)

It's taken so long to refead this thread thY the battrey on the phone is a out to die so without further ado:

Isn't the nhs paid for by your ni contributions?

If you are not a uk permanent resident you have to pay to use the nhs. A friend of ours had her father over a few years ago and, while he was here he had the isfortune to have a heart attack. The nhs sent his family a bill for £17k for his treatment which they are still paying off some years later, so is it really free?

I've got private health are and I was in hospital and operated on and on the second week of my recovery before I would have been looked at by the nhs as "an emergency case" and the most asstounding thing? The doctor who saw me and operated on me was the same doctor working privatly as the one I was supposed to have seen at the hospital. So I would have spent 3 weeks in a ward being hooked up to machines before they would have done anything and here I was sitting at home recovering after the insurance paid out the £1700 cost if the op.

Have I won or lost on the nhs lottery wheel?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dojj, NI = Tax

If you are unemployed your NI contribution is effectively paid for you by the government, and you still get healthcare, its only foreigners who can potentially end up paying i believe not any UK resident.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

Fair enough then chip

but one question for you, supposing that the injured were shipped over here for some life saving ops, would you still think it's "fair" that they have taken resources they could not or should not be a le to take and potentially let someone from the uk miss out on life saving treatment?

How would you think people would feel then? Proud that we have it in our hearts to be able to treat and help others or feel that the money and time and effort would have been better spent on fixing some of our own illnesses that that been cluttering up the hospitals in and down the country?

Where does compasion end and where does real life start?

Not that I want you to be the sole person answeing this question, I'm throwing it out to everyone out there to think "at what point does human life cost too much to save?"

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The last thing we need is more immigrants at the moment I suspect so I dont think we should be allowing anyone over here for treatment, nor do i actually think we should be taking responsibility, I feel that the nominal contribution we have given is along the right lines anyway.

Moonstone Mo

iTrader: (3)

Genuinly PMSL

Smiggy

FINALLY!!!!

Someone who understands how foreign aid REALLY works!!!!!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

what have we exported to pakistan then that's worth all that mooney?

i'm genuinly intrested to find out as when i put pakistan britian imports i got a newspaper clipping telling peole not to import wives

Escy

http://www.ukti.gov.uk/export/countr...essopportunity

Here's some trade opportunities offered. They are being offered on a UK government website and are only open to British businesses. Looks like beneficial trading links to the British economy.

Dojj, you paint a picture of Pakistan being some sort of waste land and everyone drives a donkey, they obviously have infrastructure and business opportunity

There is obvious trade deals to be had with all countries. Can't help thinking your anti Pakistan.

Regardless of any trade kick backs, the donation of money is the correct thing to do anyhow.

gaz s1

so its ok to give them 10 million to help over there but if they need urgent operations and we bring them back here to the nhs tough shit thats taking the piss and stopping people here getting treatment, sounds a bit like the same argument people were having that the 10 million would be better spent on our shores, im sure ive not understood you correctly chip as that sounds a bit hipocritical???????

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Not hypocritical at all, basic economics, we can cheaply fix some of them over there without a great impact to ourselves.
It goes back to what ive said all through the thread, you should help others in any way that is easy for you to do so, I dont think its our responsibility to pay to ship them all back here and house them, I just think its good we can help them rebuild over there.

tomoyb

iTrader: (3)

absolute disgrace in the state our country is in at moment

and the best of it is,do you think pakistan will thank us????????...........fukn chances

who helps us in situations?

STAFFY OWNER

Chip if even you are now saying that it wont do any good, what was the point in sending it when there are plenty of charities in this country that could have done some real good with it?
Rich was lucky that his wife went into a hospital with good facilities, that doesn't mean to say that all UK hospitals are of that standard. Maybe you would like to take a walk through the corridors of my local general hospital, you would then see that even a tenth of that money could make a huge change to the general feeling of well being of the patients. As it is at the moment it is dirty and very run down in some parts. I had the misfortune of visiting my dad there for about 4-5 months day in and day out whilst he was being treated for cancer so i know just about every cracked tile along the main corridor.
You are being rather hypocritical with your statement that people take things for granted and don't appreciate them. Your statement sounds like you take many charity based organisations for granted such as the RNLI, air ambulances, cancer research etc as you obviously don't feel that they need any further funding and the £10 million would have been wasted on them. You and many thousands of other people would soon think otherwise if the funding dried up and those services weren't available.
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head, fortunately your wife was in a new birthing suite with your own room, a birthing couch and water birth facilities. Not many hospitals can boast of these facilities.

Don't get me wrong i am not quibbling over the 20p that this has cost me and others, it's just the way that the government finds this money so easily whilst cutting back on other valuable services at home.
The long and short of it is that you will always have people on both sides of the fence arguing in support of their opinion and as the argument is purely based on opinions then neither side is 100% right but at the same time they are also not 100% wrong as everybody is entitled to their opinion whether it is correct or not.

mrjenrst

STAFFYOWNER, bang on and what i've tried saying people have there opinion's and you cant change them. Some cant grasp that though

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You took that quote out of context, I said it might not do any good in terms of pakistans opinion of us, not that it wouldnt do good in terms of saving innocent children which is the real reason to send it in the first place IMHO, not to carry favour (although I suspect the government isnt doing it for the reason I would be!)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Nonsense, im not being hypocritical at all, I think those organisations do deserve funding, but that right now, at this moment in time because of the level of need in pakistan they need the funding more thats all. And Ive not waivered from that at any point, my stance has been consistant throughout the thread in acknowledging there are other good causes, but that right now they arent in such dire need as pakistan is.

I dont think it would be "wasted" on the RNLI, I just dont think it would save anywhere near as many childrens lives as it can right now in pakistan.

They are facing an unprecedented crisis over there, the RNLI are just plodding along as normal doing good every day, but not on the scale that can be done in a place where there are so many more needy people in the first place.

STAFFY OWNER

^^^^^ Respect your opinion/argument Chip and you are obviously basing it on what you believe in, as am i, but from the opposite side of the fence so i think all we can do on this one is agree to disagree .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Happy to disagree, just not happy to be totally misquoted

Escy

Let me get this right, you saying you'd rather the government had spent the 10 million on new tiles for hospitals corridors rather than for saving peoples lives in Pakistan?

johnandhissaffy

iTrader: (1)

peoples family have died out there i would hate it if someone logged onto here knowing that some of us are saying let them die
this country isnt as bad as you all think if we can give 10 million to an other country to save other people black or white or any colour
i personaly could not stand there and watch people die that really do need help imo
and i am a racist but not in a way that i would leave them to die

Escy

It's nice to see someone openly admit they are racist but show compassion to our fellow man, regardless

Makes a change to people saying racist things yet denying it when challenged

STAFFY OWNER

Im saying i would rather the money was spent maintaining our own hospitals, providing better facilities for our own hospitals, keeping our own hospitals clean which is incredibly difficult when grime is collecting in crumbling wall and damaged floors which inevitably gets walked on to the wards. Why do you have a problem with that? Does that make me a selfish person to want a better level of care for our own people in need. As stated in my earlier post, my dad was in hospital fighting cancer, it didn't help his chances that he contracted Clostridium difficile (c. diff) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_difficile twice due to poor standards of cleanliness during his stay.

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

I think the best thing to do is ...
1: Dont believe anything you hear, especially on the news.
2: Don't get so worked up about something you have absolutely no control over.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

Not anti Pakistan and yes they do ride around on donkeys, but if the trade kickbacks are worth that much then, on the whole, it's a good deal. I haven't clicked the link though but seeing as you have changed my views on the amount of trade that is currently happening I'm happy to stand corrected

still think that just doing out of the kindness of our hearts is better than doing it with the ulteriour motive of getting a bigger foot in the door where trade is concerened is a better thing

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

charity begins and ends in my house with my family. now as a country charity should begin and end within the country simple as that imo.

Ad4m RST

Small angry little twats trying to be fashionably racist, all with a huge anonymity.

I'm white British and i'd be ashamed of myself, let alone that I might be raising kids or have people remotely look up to me with views like that, there's only so long you can rely on common retardation without realising what a dumb cunt you're being IMO.

Shit for brains bigoted losers...

Escy

Nice to know charity begins and ends in your home, obviously something your proud of. do you extend that philosophy to accepting charity also?

I donate to a cancer support charity, wouldn't want someone with a selfish attitude like yours to ever benefit

john

FFS Another one who does not understand

gaz s1

get in the real world its survival of the fittest in this world, always has and will be,and people will look after their own first the human race is selfish by nature no point trying to change our natural instincts and when it comes to family you look after your own first.

The problem people have is that our beloved government have said we all have to suffer to get our debts down but still hand foreign aid out, and people are saying if we are in so much shit(debatable) then look after our own and basically fuck everyone else, this is not racist as it means EVERYONE else.

Maybe foreign aid does bring money back in i dont know but it aint exactly noble is it if we do it for gain??? so the compassion argument then goes straight out the window!!.

This is the govenments fault as they are pushing too fast to pay of the debt and schools jobs etc are suffering so of course people question when they are losing their jobs, houses etc as to why we can afford to help other countries.!!!.

If you tell people the school their kids go to cant have the refurb it so desperatly need because we are skint but continue to give foreign aid to countries ALL over the world, then people are going to question WHY and if you dont get that its time to give up the brown

How much money have we thrown at africa and for what, they still reproduce like fuck knowing they cant feed their kids, wont use condoms due to the catholic church telling them they are bad so aids is rife, lost hope imo and as we are so skint maybe its time to cut our losses and sort ourselves out and realise we are a poxy little country who cant save the world, be it global warming, world poverty etc.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

It is easy to see both sides of the coin as on one hand the governemnt are hitting us hard to get the country's debt down to a manageable level but on the other hand they are giving money to another country. It could be said that the £10 mil should just be loaded up against our national debt but in the grand scheme of things £10 mil will make fuck all difference to our debt. We give something like £45mil per day to be part of the EU. Ok we obviosuly dont use the euro but we are still a memeber of the EU. There are many many better ways of managing our debt starting at the root cause of our debt. £10mil - drop in the ocean, loose change to us as a country in reality.

gaz s1

be interesting to know how much our TOTAL foreign aid budget is though wouldnt it, bet it would open a few peoples eyes!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think there are a LOT of budgets that most of us wouldnt be able to see the logic behind.
The military one is the biggest place I would make cuts personally if I was in power I suspect, but I also suspect its not as easy to cut as I think it is!

mrjenrst

so how many people have put in this then by there choice

http://www.unicef.org.uk/give/index....FQ6ElAodFgdM6A

been the misguided racist as i've been sussed out on here i've only put £30 in the pot out of MY choice.

escy seen as your so passionate about it i'm assuming you putting at least £100 in

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well done mrjenrst for being charitable

gaz s1

But now we are in new politics with our coalition so i guess they are going to tell us all the budgets they spend on.....................NOT, Its only our money they are spending but at a guess they will say its too complex and the taxpayer would not be able to work out if its money well spent.

Fuck off the olympics i say, what a total waste of money that is

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Franky boyle (sp?) had a good respose to the people saying that the olympics will give england a feel good factor.

"It's going to cost 9.2 Billion Pounds, for 9.2 Billion pounds we could write fuck off Germany on the Moon"