vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Mate in the trade just told me a nasty story.boy turns up at his mates garage with say a £2000 car,offers it to the trader for say £500,trader does the usual checks,hpi police etc,all 100% clear,car seems ok so a deal was done.couple of days later sells the car to the punter,all good,happy days.punter goes to tax it and puts logbook in his name.punter gets letter from logbook loans saying they have ownership of the car and the two grand loan put against it needs to be cleared,car is returned to trader and trader offers to sort it out.eventually goes to court and trader proves that he did all the usual checks and proves he had no knowledge of logbook loans hold on the car,logbook loans explain that they do NOT register cars with hpi hence why it didn't show up ,judge very apologetic but favours logbook loans due to their hold on the car,trader loses car.all the traders by me now are giving them a call first as well as hpi as you never know,they don't charge by all accounts so two minutes could save you a few bob.

fordsportjay

iTrader: (6)

i hpi'd an audi tt last year that was registered as having 2 log book loans against it-both not paid and were outstanding.

in fact the more i think about it there have been other cars with hpi flags up against them with log book loans

i think there are quite a few companies offering these type of loans now though,so some may register and some may not.

~nomad~

iTrader: (4)

all grat, except for the fact that logbook loans do register with hpi, so its all bollocks. I have dealt with 2 cars with logbook loans against them.

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

It isn't all bollocks mate as there's lots of these logbook loan style companies out there,this guy wouldn't talk shit either as he's a personal friend e do a lot of work for.I'm not saying some of them use hpi but definatley not all,believe me this guy wouldn't phone them if he didn't have too!!

24vcossiemat

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vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Ditto above,basically what happenned.tbh it's probably cheaper/easier to phone them first before hpi.Just trying to warn people but you'll always have know it alls!!!

RickyLee53

If I did this i'd break the car for parts and let them have the shell and logbook.

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Would be my suggestion too!!that was how I bought it officer!!

24vcossiemat

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Fil

So whos name is the log book in at the point the trader buys it for £500?

24vcossiemat

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Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

no they cant without a very specific warrant from the court to do so. And its very hard and a long process to get that far in court.

With most log book loans its all bullshit as they have often not correctly drafted a Bill of Sale, let alone followed procedures.

Most debt collectors spout all kinds of shit to scare you into paying. Its only unpaid magistrates fines where they get easy access to a court order to enter your home. Council tax and HMRC debts are similar but slower to gain access. Private debts have very little chance of ever getting to the point where they can forcably enter your home.

sure with cars they can sieze the car but they cant break in to do so. eg if stored in garage there is fuck all they can do.

Fil

So how do you make sure, when buying a car now, you aint going to get fucked over? As have always made sure the log book is the address where im buying the car and HPI checked it.

Dont want to get my fingers burned in the future

shaun_focus4x4

so from the first post..... ring log book loans and check then hpi???????????????
then someone go's on to say there are many companies like log book loans, so do u ring them all?

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Ring up logbook loans fella,but it can be a minefield for certain.I'm sure this won't affect 90% of people and in my brutal honesty I haven't hpi a car in ages which is fucking stupid I know being in the trade but again it's something to be aware of.24vcossiemat seems to know his stuff in this area so I'm sure he'll feed us back in 5!!it's half time after all!!!!

24vcossiemat

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Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

ok show me the legislation that allows debt collectors and baliffs the right to forcably enter locked residential premises such as garages, houses etc??

You wont be able to show me any such laws that allow you to do so without appropriate warrant/order from a court or without having carried out previously an unchallenged walk in possesion (hence giving the right to return and re-enter premises at a later date).

Logbook loan companys havent got any special legislation "just" for them.

You may be told you can break in, and you may well be doing so, but i seriously doubt the legalities of your actions.

24vcossiemat

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anodised

no one can break in to garages and if they do they are breaking the law

manojzs

yeah a guy on cliosport bought a Clio Williams not an expensive one and it had a log book loan on it, so he stripped and handed over the shell.

its very difficult for buyers say your looking at a 20k car which unsuspectingly has a logbook loan your screwed even if you do hpi it

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

ive never said you cant take unsecured cars off private property, breaking and entering buildings is a different matter.

trading standards have already acted on many unlawful/unfair "Bill of Sale" agreements that log book loan companys have been using to get round the consumer credit act.

The entire bill of sale act is already under review with the view to banning its use for log book loans to force them under the consumer credit act.

Im not doubting the fact that the current Bills of Sale allow you to take a car with no court order, but as i said, its the breaking into premises bit that has currently successfully been challenged.

Im sure the whole industry will be bought under CCA soonish too.

24vcossiemat

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Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Matt, seriously trading standards have been declaring loads of these BOS agreements unenforcable after log book loans was forced to change the wording with specific reference to "forceable entry" (and a few other key points offering additional protection to third parties).

And thats assuming the BOS have been correctly registered in the first place, many of which are not registered or registered against what trading standards have said and some are completely illegal because the exact requirements of the BOS act are not being followed. It will be rendered void if it does not contain:

* The date of the bill
* The names and address of the partie* A statement of Consideration
* An acknowledgement of the receipt of the advance
* An assignment by way of security of particular goods, capable of description
* Statements of the sum secured, the rate of interestautolinker.com autolinking image, and the instalments by which repayments are made,
* Agreed terms for the maintenance of security
* A clause limiting the grounds of seizureautolinker.com autolinking image to one of the following:
o Default with the repayments or any covenant of the bill
o Bankruptcy or seizure of the goods for rent, rates, or taxes.
o If the granter fraudulently removes goods, or arranges for their removal
o If execution has been levied against the goods
* A schedule containing a description of the chattels
* Execution (signature) by the granter (borrower)
* A statement in the form of the 1882 act
* Attestation by a witness not a party to the bill
* Registration

any breach of the bill of sale act makes it unenforcable.

A bill of sale must be attested "The execution of every bill of sale by the grantor shall be attested by one or more credible witness or witnesses, not being a party or parties thereto" (i.e. someone must witness your signing the bill of sale. this makes the agreement properly executed. )

The second part of the process is registering the bill of sale. This involves the credible witness to the execution of the bill of sale swearing an oath that they saw you sign the bill of sale:

"Such bill, with every schedule ... every attestation of the execution of such bill of sale, together with an affidavit of the time of such bill of sale being made or given, and of its due execution and attestation, ...shall be filed with the registrar within seven clear days after the making or giving of such bill of sale..."

Im not confusing it with CCA. I know this as i got one of my clients clear of a log book loan as the BOS was invalid for a number of reasons (despite it being registered).

Not withstanding that, voiding of a BOS does not deny the fact that a debt does exist, just the laws which can be used.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

no i mean like on a drive or garden. You can tow that no problem if the BOS is valid of course, but its the forceable entry into premises thats the issue.

24vcossiemat

deleted. because i'm a pillock and got wound up, so i'm sorry warren, that was offensive and out of order

KregRS

Hope you can back that statement up with fact, like said elsewhere on this thread, most of the time companies like Lbl fail to register the bill of sale, and for a debt like that its highly unlikely you'd be able to 'legally' break in to someones home. Sure you can repo off the street, but parked on private property you need a court order, seize it without one and you'll be in the crap. An Lbl debt is just the same as any other private debt, you dont get any right to break in anywhere or do as you please, if you've come on here and stated you can, as you have, I guess you're like the majority of debt collectors, baliff's and repo men, you'll fill whoever you're dealing with, with so much crap to intimidate them to make your job that bit easier. I suppose you also tell the 'customer' that if they dont cooperate, you'll call the police, even though its a civil, not criminal matter, and the police cant get involved, most they can do is stand by and make sure the situation is dealt with peacefully.

KregRS

Drive or garden still requires a court order, its private property, tow it without and wait for the crap to start.

24vcossiemat

oh you go ahead an argue between yourselves, ya doing me fuckin head in, typical solicitors.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

I bought a car a few weeks ago that showed on HPI as money owed to logbook loans

I contacted logbook loans to sort it

,,LOGBOOK LOANS DO notify HPI of any intrest , they have to by law to have any claim on the car

They cant state a claim if its impossible for anyone to know by not informing HPI that they hold any sort of intrest

Plus if you own more of a percentage on the car than they do , ie , 6k car with 2k owed , they cany take the car anyway as you hold the larger share

24vcossiemat

[QUOTE=KregRS normal car unregulated car finance meaning any agreement over 25 grand or an agreement for a limited company can be repo'd from private land.. think you should look into this before commenting.. this is fact my friend

KregRS

If the finance companies operated correctly, then there would be no need to use loop holes. Now, I'm no legal expert, but through using other forums I've learnt various things regarding people like yourself. I know of a few people who've had cars unlawfully repo'd and after persuing the matter through court have walked away with the value of the car when purchased, the return of all payments made and interest on those payments, adding up to thousands, much more than the original agreement, all because of the misguided 'knowledge' of people like yourself. You claim its your job and you know how to do it, sorry, but i disagree.

KregRS

[QUOTE=24vcossiemat;4949620][QUOTE=KregRS normal car unregulated car finance meaning any agreement over 25 grand or an agreement for a limited company can be repo'd from private land.. think you should look into this before commenting.. this is fact my friend[/QUOTE]

As my agreement is for less than 25k, and I'm not a limited company, then doubt it applies...

24vcossiemat

yeah there you go, you've learned by internet forums which I have read and laughed at, I had to pass an exam to do my job. that exam was to prove I know the law regarding repo's. so butt out if you don't know what your talking about. our company has been repo'ing cars since 1986 and has never been successfully claimed against for wrongfully taking a car.

24vcossiemat

[QUOTE=KregRS;4949627]obviously not then mate but how would I have known that as you didn't tell me

KregRS

[QUOTE=24vcossiemat;4949637]Fair point... But regarding the other points, to repo stuff you must be a baliff, any chance you can pm me your name and the court that issued your certificate.

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

so if there are lots of companies offering "log book loans" do you have to ring every single one of them

all sounds like pish to me; i would have thought you have to register with HPI if you are claiming an interest in the car