people shot dead in Cumbria
08-06-2010, 12:30 PM
#126
To me it looks like the media are fishing for a fault to blame the police, would it have been fare for the unarmed police officers to have tried to stop this man? and they have been hinting on armed responce times but if you don't live in the county you can't appreciate the terrain and road network - a friend of ours is armed response and based in Keswick which is 30 miles of A-road around the other units would have come from Carlisle which from the new station on the other side of the city to whitehaven is at least 45 mins at speed - it's like travelling from Liverpool to Manchester only on A roads.
08-06-2010, 01:09 PM
#127
Totally - I watched the documentary and it was really trying to blame the cops. It's one of those situations where no amount of training could give you a perfect method of handling it better.
They were whining that ambulance crews weren't being let in till the area was safe. WTF - can you imagine the outcry if a paramedic got shot because they had let them in!
It's this wanky 'blame culture' we live in that's the problem. Because the dude shot himself it seems that people want someone to blame, even though there's one person, and one person only who is guilty.
They were whining that ambulance crews weren't being let in till the area was safe. WTF - can you imagine the outcry if a paramedic got shot because they had let them in!
It's this wanky 'blame culture' we live in that's the problem. Because the dude shot himself it seems that people want someone to blame, even though there's one person, and one person only who is guilty.
08-06-2010, 01:42 PM
#128
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There will always be people saying the Police / Ambulance should have been on scene quicker, but the first rule is never become a casualty yourself, as you wont be much use to those who need you.
Totally agree with Dan, blame culture and the media are the first lot to start stirring stuff up. As said above, the bloke who pulled the trigger is the only person to blame.
Totally agree with Dan, blame culture and the media are the first lot to start stirring stuff up. As said above, the bloke who pulled the trigger is the only person to blame.
08-06-2010, 02:01 PM
#129
I dont know of any real "snipers" who would use a 22 i love the way the stupid press just band round terms they dont understand to cause more panic and hysteria. He's not a sniper, a maniac, a monster etc he's just a gunman who lost it.
its not just the "blame culture" its also denial by the public of having to accept the fact that seemingly normal people can just crack and do horrifying things at any time. That fact means the ignorant and fearful dont sleep so well at night, so if they can in their minds blame the police then they will sleep safer knowing that a police review has taken place and will write the gunman off as a monster/nutter/loony, ie NOT LIKE THEM. Thats part of the reason demonising such murderers is done by the papers, it sells because thats what the public want to hear.
in reality the public need to get the fuck over themselves and just accept that ordinary decent people sometimes crack and do really really horrible things.
then if they accept it, the attitude towards mental health and stopping people getting to that point of cracking might change and less things happen.
but no that wont happen. its easier to brush it under the carpet and the public write him off as a monster and go back to sticking their heads in the sand.........
i love the way the stupid press just band round terms they dont understand to cause more panic and hysteria. He's not a sniper, a maniac, a monster etc he's just a gunman who lost it.in reality the public need to get the fuck over themselves and just accept that ordinary decent people sometimes crack and do really really horrible things.
then if they accept it, the attitude towards mental health and stopping people getting to that point of cracking might change and less things happen.
but no that wont happen. its easier to brush it under the carpet and the public write him off as a monster and go back to sticking their heads in the sand.........
08-06-2010, 02:26 PM
#130
I've had a lot of depression around me, but never had so much as an ounce of it myself, and know (yes know) that I'll never turn into a lone gunman.
All the 'gunmen' types have had psychological problems from the off - Michael Ryan - Nutter, the Columbine kids - Nutters, Seung-Hui Cho - Nutter.
It's too early to comment about Bird, but the fact that he was reknowned for his blatant letching (which made women uncomfortable) implied that he was 'socially impaired', and I'd be surprised if more details don't come out about 'oddness' in his life.
It's not the denial of the fact that a 'normal' man can go on a shooting spree that fucks with people's minds it's the randomness and unpredictability that's the issue.
08-06-2010, 03:23 PM
#131
) and shooting people with a real rifle are completely different!I've had a lot of depression around me, but never had so much as an ounce of it myself, and know (yes know) that I'll never turn into a lone gunman.
All the 'gunmen' types have had psychological problems from the off - Michael Ryan - Nutter, the Columbine kids - Nutters, Seung-Hui Cho - Nutter.
It's too early to comment about Bird, but the fact that he was reknowned for his blatant letching (which made women uncomfortable) implied that he was 'socially impaired', and I'd be surprised if more details don't come out about 'oddness' in his life.
It's not the denial of the fact that a 'normal' man can go on a shooting spree that fucks with people's minds it's the randomness and unpredictability that's the issue.
All the 'gunmen' types have had psychological problems from the off - Michael Ryan - Nutter, the Columbine kids - Nutters, Seung-Hui Cho - Nutter.
It's too early to comment about Bird, but the fact that he was reknowned for his blatant letching (which made women uncomfortable) implied that he was 'socially impaired', and I'd be surprised if more details don't come out about 'oddness' in his life.
It's not the denial of the fact that a 'normal' man can go on a shooting spree that fucks with people's minds it's the randomness and unpredictability that's the issue.
this happens in plenty of countrys and its not just nutcases that do it. I read an article at uni a while back and it went on about the psychological differences between serial killers, mass murderers and spree killings. the first 2 are generally the traditional personality disordered killer portrayed in the press. The third are usually not. There have been quite a lot of investigations in the US into spree killings due to a spate of them in the 80 and 90s at postoffices leading to the phrase "going postal". In most cases there was no underlying psycopathology to "blame" for the person going on a killing spree.
Also i dont think the "randomness" answers the publics fears. its well documented and ive seen it at my work, for families and whole communities to sweep things under the carpet rather than deal with it. examples include victims of rape/sexual abuse being outcast by their own family and community as its easier for the family to outcast them and call them a lier etc than to accept someone in thier own family would do such a thing to a fellow family member. happens often too with the surviving partner/children of a murderer. People take the easier option than having to face upto and deal with stuff thats horrible.
08-06-2010, 04:28 PM
#134
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People still dont get it depression can hit ANYONE and when it does you dont know how you are going to react, no one can say for sure i i would not do this or that because it all goes out the window when your mind goes awol!!
08-06-2010, 07:22 PM
#135
well i found it funny and so did a few people on here and a few of my mates so id say thats grounds for comedy value!! I have a warped sense of humour! You not noticed this yet?? how long you been on PF?
exactly. We are ALL succeptable to mental illhealth. There is a spectrum between well and unwell and we all move up and down it at various times. Different people have different limits of how much stress etc they can take before they crack. No one is uncrackable. Sure some people can take massive amounts of stress compared to average and some cannot and also its to do with coping skills and how you relax and those skills develop as you grow so that can impact it too.
So never say never!
how long you been on PF? So never say never!
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