WRC Twin Crank Position Bracket
06-05-2010, 10:38 AM
#1
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WRC Twin Crank Position Bracket
Anyone shed any light or have a picture of how the WRC/Group A cars ran the twin crank position sensor setup? I assume its mounted 180 degrees to the original and they could switch between the 2 from inside the car if one failed.
Looking for any info or pics or suppliers if possible!
Stu
Looking for any info or pics or suppliers if possible!
Stu
06-05-2010, 11:46 AM
#5
funnily enough I bought one last week for my single seater after hunting around with no joy for ages. I needed it as there is no bracket on my dry sump pan and the sensor wont fit anyway due to lack of space in the normal area.
I got it from Clint on turbosport in the end and yes it sits 180 degrees around and lines up basically where the alloy marker sits on the front cover for timing up the crank pulley.
You would have to machine down the front cover and need to use a 4x4 water pump as the pipe on a 2wd one gets in the way of the bracket.
Drop him a pm as he may have another left from a batch he had made.
I got it from Clint on turbosport in the end and yes it sits 180 degrees around and lines up basically where the alloy marker sits on the front cover for timing up the crank pulley.
You would have to machine down the front cover and need to use a 4x4 water pump as the pipe on a 2wd one gets in the way of the bracket.
Drop him a pm as he may have another left from a batch he had made.
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10-05-2010, 06:59 AM
#8
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Stu,
I havn't got an engine with the twin setup here at the minute, this is the bracket...I cant sell you this one though pal as I need it for an engine.....
Ian
10-05-2010, 07:50 AM
#10
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The WRC cars had win brackets so that 2 crank sensors could be fitted due to the reliability problems of these sensors as most cossie owners should know.
Also, the position of the original sensor is very open to damage from road debris on rally cars.
The ecu only had one connected at a time that was selected with a switch inside the car.
Also, the position of the original sensor is very open to damage from road debris on rally cars.
The ecu only had one connected at a time that was selected with a switch inside the car.
10-05-2010, 08:57 AM
#11
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Stu,
That's the bracket fitted to Clint's N/A engine...the proper bracket mounts in the same place, if I get chance i'll get a pic up later but I think you get the idea...
Simon,
They were/are a bloody nightmare...lol
Ian
10-05-2010, 09:03 AM
#12
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The WRC cars had win brackets so that 2 crank sensors could be fitted due to the reliability problems of these sensors as most cossie owners should know.
Also, the position of the original sensor is very open to damage from road debris on rally cars.
The ecu only had one connected at a time that was selected with a switch inside the car.
Also, the position of the original sensor is very open to damage from road debris on rally cars.
The ecu only had one connected at a time that was selected with a switch inside the car.
his broke and stranded him the other day!
Last edited by Porkie; 10-05-2010 at 09:08 AM.
10-05-2010, 10:48 AM
#15
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as paul has said, clints stuff is usually exact copies of the original and always top notch.
sometime a little hard to get hold of but always comes up with the goods.
sometime a little hard to get hold of but always comes up with the goods.
10-05-2010, 11:58 AM
#20
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does it hell mike, i bet you would struggle to change one in under 20-30 mins.
much better to have a twin setup, even better something like a t6 where you can just use SW1 and switch the crank sensor at the touch of a button.
much better to have a twin setup, even better something like a t6 where you can just use SW1 and switch the crank sensor at the touch of a button.
10-05-2010, 02:11 PM
#24
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exactly, also means carrying tools, thats not what i call a driving experience, and as lee has pointed out, carry a jack in a westy aint exactly easy
your avoiding the problem rather than solving it.
what tools did i take to the nurburgring? 3 spanners and some jubilee clips
your avoiding the problem rather than solving it.
what tools did i take to the nurburgring? 3 spanners and some jubilee clips
10-05-2010, 02:20 PM
#25
exactly, also means carrying tools, thats not what i call a driving experience, and as lee has pointed out, carry a jack in a westy aint exactly easy
your avoiding the problem rather than solving it.
what tools did i take to the nurburgring? 3 spanners and some jubilee clips
your avoiding the problem rather than solving it.
what tools did i take to the nurburgring? 3 spanners and some jubilee clips
They usually get fucking trailered everywhere
.
10-05-2010, 02:41 PM
#27
I usually carry a spare CPS (along with plugs, pads, turbo damper bracket and oil), a full tool kit and if a UK circuit, a jack as well (unless I know there will be one available to scrounge the use of 
) 
.
Stu knows that, as he nicked my 8mm spanner last time.
) .Stu knows that, as he nicked my 8mm spanner last time
.
Last edited by Mike Rainbird; 10-05-2010 at 02:49 PM.
10-05-2010, 02:52 PM
#28
Carrying a spare seems like the best way to guarentee you have one in good condition, as a second one fitted to the car is still going to be subject to similar shitty conditions as the original one, ideal for a race where speed of change is of the essence, but I cant see its a big issue on a road car if you have to swap it over, AA or RAC will bring you some tools to do it with anyway.
Seems like overkill to wire in a second one etc, and that then introduces further potential points of failure such as the switch itself.
Mind you, you could always just mount it on the car, and if you need to switch it over just plug it in, rather than wiring in a switch etc, so maybe thats the best compromise.
Seems like overkill to wire in a second one etc, and that then introduces further potential points of failure such as the switch itself.
Mind you, you could always just mount it on the car, and if you need to switch it over just plug it in, rather than wiring in a switch etc, so maybe thats the best compromise.
10-05-2010, 03:18 PM
#29
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you can either have it mounted and just swap the original plug over (one next to the dizzy)
or you jsut piggy back the wiring on a t6 and use the sw1, which adjusts the timing accordingly and reads from the second sensor.
obviously its alot more agro on cars which dont have t6.
i've done looms for quite a few race cars which have, twin cranks, twin maps, twin amps.
all depends on have premptive you want to go.
or you jsut piggy back the wiring on a t6 and use the sw1, which adjusts the timing accordingly and reads from the second sensor.
obviously its alot more agro on cars which dont have t6.
i've done looms for quite a few race cars which have, twin cranks, twin maps, twin amps.
all depends on have premptive you want to go.
10-05-2010, 03:28 PM
#30
Yeah if you have provision for it in the ecu it makes more sense than when people start adding sublooms etc to swap over via a switch in the car which causes loads of extra wire length.
Technically on an L8 you could run 4 of them if you wanted to be really sure as there is no TDC reference on the 4 tooth wheel
Technically on an L8 you could run 4 of them if you wanted to be really sure as there is no TDC reference on the 4 tooth wheel
10-05-2010, 07:08 PM
#31
Testing the future
if you don't have to have the same as the production car for homologation reasons, why not do something far more reliable and run it off the flywheel or elsewhere less susceptible to damage? 
10-05-2010, 07:24 PM
#32
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Machining the block and flywheel isn't really an option unless the engine is in bits, also would require alot of time and money to work it out correctly on a yb
10-05-2010, 09:36 PM
#33
surely this would be a worthwhile mod to any cossie , relocating the cps to a position less susceptible to road shite and the usual crap that causes the genral issues with them
i thought an item like this would sell really well if someone we to have on replicated ??
beef
i thought an item like this would sell really well if someone we to have on replicated ??
beef
18-05-2010, 08:12 PM
#34
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Clint on Turbosport does them for £25, good old ebay
18-05-2010, 09:00 PM
#35
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i don't know much about cossies, but i'm amazed the need to run two crank sensers just incase of reliability issues, are they REALLY that unreliable!?
19-05-2010, 08:30 AM
#37
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
They don’t NEED to run 2 sensors, the rally cars did as the standard location on the crank sensor is vulnerable to debris flying up and breaking them. The touring cars didn't run 2, it was purely a rally car thing. If Ford had mounted the senor in the other position in the 1st place they wouldn't have needed to run two at all.
19-05-2010, 12:04 PM
#38
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If you made your own how accurate would the position need to be ?
I know the bracket would need to be sturdy enough to stop any movement once fixed in position but what if that fixed position was say 10 deg out ?
WD
I know the bracket would need to be sturdy enough to stop any movement once fixed in position but what if that fixed position was say 10 deg out ?
WD
19-05-2010, 12:17 PM
#39
Advanced PassionFord User
The actual fixed position doesn't matter as you can define the position in the Descpro software, same in most aftermarket ECU calibration software..they defo aint worth over £100....
