-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

curently been discussing a engine loom for the mk three with ryan ,

and were on the agreement that the most expensive part could be speccing up the l8 to run the features below , yb application


coil on plug -sequential or wasted spark style ( either that will do the job )
cam trigger ( however i dont think this is down to the ecu itself )
closed loop or some kind of lambda control
possible 8 injector setup
switchable boost map-2 stage
als ( road car )
lc ( road car )



i think thats it , but if you can specify other possible options that

a- could be ran

b- worth running ,


now when u add that lot up onto a l8 or p8 i get the feeling its going to be quite steep ( however stu or james if you could give me a price ?)

so what ecu's out there can do all the abouve and poss other options


price . availiability . difficulty to map . opinon ?

off the top of my head im thinking

autronic -vipec
poss the m tech v4 ?
l8 with wonga
pectel t something ( varying models ) ?





note , if anyone says " why dont you worry about finishing the fab before you ask about ecu's ,

the fab is out of my hands at the moment , as it the rest of the shell , and a bit of fucking forward planning never hurt no fooker ,

love

beef

mad dog younge

im with you here beefy ,forward planning is the way forward mate ..i still have fab work to do but buying all the shit you need to finish it ..happy building mate

mad dog younge

ps you know wot ecu ive got

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

pectel t6 1200Ł second hand, do anything you want it too, might even cook ya parmos

few places map them, easy to map so you can play with it yourself and learn

quite available too

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

jim if theres one thing ill never do with any ecu is " play with it "

thats what i have you for lol ,


beef

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

you reckon the old man will miss one jim ?


also if you factor in 1200 used , to what an l8 will cost ?

take it the t6 has more features /better in evry aspect ,

more importantly ---- will it cook parmos ?

beef

tabetha

Unless doing zillions of revs sequential ignition is pointless, if mapped correctly closed loop is pointless.
Think how many drivers you need if wanting true sequential then there's 4 straight away taken up, wasted can still be coil on plug but only 2 drivers needed.
tabetha

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

well this is what im waiting to hear about regards running sequential on an l8, simons yet to fully wrinkle out all the details with it

the zetec drivers wont be sufficent , however ryan has told me bosch do a driver wich is up to the job , and like u say ill need two of em ,

gus

iTrader: (1)

life racing for me

similar price as the old t6 with just as many gizmos if not more

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

lol, its good to look about, we dont have many customers who do to be fair, but a couple really enjoy flicking through and learning, but, its on their head if they mess up then isnt it

i think he would notice, although he has no choice when my saffy is nearly for the road

1200 used seems alot yes, but like i say, it will do anything tbh, only thing is dosnt do that i can think of straight off me head is fly by wire throttle

but anything that you will actually need it will cater for

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

good call, another cracking ecu, although not so many people specialise in mapping them so there is limited people to choose from unless your choosen mapper will learn te software and do it

gus

iTrader: (1)

does pops do it?

tom went thro the pages and pages of stuff it does

was very impressed but then how much of that i will be using is another thing lol

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

yes mate done a fair few now and theyre deffinately a good little box, a bit like t6 but more complicated, not laid out quite as simple

but when you get playing with them constantly you just get to know the program eh

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Beef,
Before you can choose an ecu you need to know the following...

Who is mapping it ?
Who will install it ?
How much can you afford ?




Why ?

You are missinformed or do not understand the technology !!!

Nearlly 75% of all petrol cars in europe now have sequential COP ignition.
Do manufacturers fit these things for fun or do road cars do high revs ? .. NO !

There are many other advantages for manufacturers such as but not limited too the following ..

Space saving
Cheaper wiring
Reduced power consumption
Reduced plug wear (compared to wasted spark)
Reduced EMF emmisions
Reliable missfire detection (if fitted)
Reduced exhaust emisions
Single coil/plug failure still allows 3 cylinders to run (versus wasted spark would drop to 2)

While it may be slightly expensive to retro fit COP to an existing car that doesnt make it "pointless"


Utter bollox !!!!!

An engine is a constantly changing entity that wears with time.
Closed loop ensures correct operating conditions for light and mid loads where the car spends most of its life thus saving fuel, reducing oil consumption through reduced bore wash and thus extending engine life and saving money at the pump !

Also, changes in air pressure/density/temperature can slighlty affect AFR on speed desity ECU's (non AFM) and closed loop can correct for this.

Mapping serves only to provide a single point in a grid that is mapped where the correlating points are a linear line that isnt always right.
Closed loop also corrects these unmapped inbetween points.

Are you saying all the car manufacturers in the world fit closed loop do it for fun ?

I would like to hear your reasons for such a rediculous statement !!

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

[quote=Flux Capacitor.;4811815]Beef,
Before you can choose an ecu you need to know the following...

Who is mapping it ?
Who will install it ?
How much can you afford ?





mapping and installation will depend on the final choice of ecu simon ,

however if it was to be l8

id say msd mate , and as with fitting , will has said he will give me and karl an hand when it comes to installation , ( ryan will be making the loom )

if it was pectel -vipec , it would go to the best mapper i can afford , wont mind travelling to see it done properly , invseted too much to scrip on the setup ,


afford - thats one of those things mate of where im trying to make the car the best i can , now dont get me wron i dont want to spend 4 k on a ecu ,

but i will pay what i have to to get something that can do the job ,

however as with all things , the cheapest option whilst providing the service is always going to be high on the list


regards

beef


how far off a sequential setup are you for l8 simon ??

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

beef,

I have no plans to release sequential set up myself for L8 but I can advise Stu how to mod the driver board to do it.

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

thats fair do's mate ,

would you class it as an expensive mod simon , regards whats needed ?


beef

rich123

iTrader: (3)

i use a m/s 2 v3 its spot on cheap aswell and there are a few places who map them these days aswell think i paid 350 for mine wired it up myself and got it mapped by dale at bailey prformance in a day charged me 250 for mapping it

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

rich can it handle the above fucntions


anyone used the dta s80 range ??


beef

markk

iTrader: (2)

GEMS ecu's will do anything and everything you would possibly want for about the same price as the lesser spec'd second hand T6 = dont buy used electronics if you can help it.

it all depends on your range, there are the budget spec units - omex, DTA etc etc from like Ł500-Ł1000, then the Ł1200 and up - if your in the latter then there is only one option for you for the money

http://www.gems.co.uk/?content=pages&id=em36

1223456

Beefy, the ms range does everything you would ever need and can be mapped by any competant mapper, it would take them litterally minutes for them to get the head around the navigation. Im using V4 which is basically very similar to the ms stuff using software called tuner studio. Im sending a copy of this down to harvey and jimbo to have a gander at. Be carful as to not be led astray on ecu, shure the more expensive ones are perhaps better for the big 10k race engines but for a 8k reving yb/zetec etc you can achieve great results from a low cost ecu.

I am dealing with more and more customers who use these ecu's, never ever met one who can slag it off both n/a and forced. Check out crazycage, rick, project rs off here, their cars are all pushing silly figures but drive perfectly round town, idle perfectly and have ALL been mapped by themselves from the word go, they also have capabilities of controlling stepper icv's, boost control, etc etc etc

Give any of them a pm for a bit of advise just so you get a proper opinion from someone who knows the software as i dont to be fair, just what im learning bit by bit

Hope this helps mate

Raj

SiZT

I'd consider Boost vs TPS and Boost vs RPM for a road/track car

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

did you actually read my above post ??

beef

please if your going to throw options into the mix

prices would be helpful



seems an impressive bit of kit mark - who deals with mapping of gems ecus ?


beef

ajamesc

go autronic and get it set up by mark and u will never look back!

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

was one of my listed options andy

isnt sheady moving away from autronic in favour of vipec ?

any prices mate ?


beef

SiZT

The one about switchable boost maps or the one about dta s80? because I read them both?

ajamesc

i dont think he will move away from it he may use other management as well. All depends on what u want and how much money u have but id always trust what he says as he really knows what hes doing! Give him a bell and have a chat!

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

not being funny fella whilst i appriceate the input ?

where the hell does it give me any reccomendation to any ecu , cost , features ect in your first post ?

or even in your second ,


im not a mind reader sausage ??

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

Are you being realistic in what features you'll use ?

Are you going to use LC? Will you have the gearbox and diff to cope with it?

How aggressive will the ALS be? 247 shafted turbo, modded throttle body and ISCV for 10 minutes use on the road before you decide you can't use it for fear of either attracting plod's attention or melting your expensive lambda sensor?

Why 8 injectors when you can get 4 that'll do fine at tickover and high revs/max boost for half the cost, without even considering the cost of ECU mods?

If you decide you can live without those functions, then a basic L8 with a wasted spark driver is all you really need for a good power engine.

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

beefy here's a plan for ya............why dont u just get the fooking car on the road/mapped and used, instead of planning all this bollacks and imho wasting money on pointless features..............

packman

Pectel T2 , and get Harvey to map it.

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

tis a cracking conversion that onto t2 but unfortunately it wont do everything beef wants it to do other wise i would have said it

1223456

MS pre built around Ł200 - Ł350 depending on who you get to do it, M-tech V4 installed and fully mapped for Ł999 or Ł495.00 for the ecu (all plus vat)
Features:

• Launch Control
• Switchable Maps
• Shift Light and Fan Outputs (All programmable)
• Stepper-Motor based Idle Support
• 4 In-built Coil Drivers (No need for external ignitors)
• OEM Trigger Support (Ford, GM, Toyota, Renault, Subaru, Rover MEMs to name just a few..)
• 3D Mappable Boost Control
• Coolant based RPM Limits
• X-Tau Fueling
• CAN Support
• USB connections

http://www.mtechautomotive.co.uk/eng...gement/v4-ecu/

Beefy pal, if you want me to send you the software I would bemore than happy to so you could show some of your tuner friends to get their opinion.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

The Mtech V4 is a nice bit of kit !

Most coil on plug devices have a built in ignitor so you would need to check what beef has and if the ecu can support them if they are logic signal driven.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

For the money the Mtech is a good option but only has 2 coil drivers built in as standard, im sure Mtech could do you one with 4 though as Matt tries his best to give people what they want, but its not their focus as they are developing a new 8 channel fully sequential ecu which will hopefully be out in about 12 months which is where their R&D focus is at the moment.


Personally I would probably go autronic sm4 though as it will do everything you want out of the box with no fuss at all, is available for under a grand secondhand and there are loads of good mappers out there for it.

charlie luciano

iTrader: (3)

Vipec v44 big boy


Luciano

foreigneRS

they do it because legislation forces them to run a cat and therefore run in closed loop to protect it.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I dont see how anyone can view closed loop fuelling on cruise as anything other than a good thing really its not like there is any significant downside to it that im aware of, am i missing something?

I wouldnt say its essentialy for economy if the car is very well mapped though either of course.

Rick

Chip - you mean rip off the MS3 code like they have done with MS2Extra and the V4....

I'm a beta testa for the MS3, you may want to look at that. Simply the best mapping software out there IMO, ten injector drivers and a whole load of I/O including hardware PWM. Probably a bit overkill for most, and it's not out just yet.

Rick.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes mate largely that is exactly what will happen I should imagine, no point in them re-inventing the wheel and starting from scratch when they are in the fortunate position of not having to.
The reason that the Mtech V4 offers so much in such a professional package for such a moderate cost is because its taken advantage of all the best bits of MS and then just finished it off properly into a decent professional package that is basically now better developed than most high end ecu's that people pay far more for.
I can understand why that pisses people off in the MS community as it means that Mtech and their customers are all benefitting from their hard work, but the bottom line is that it makes it absolutely awesome value to the customer who is getting a miles better product for their money as a result.
I guess you could argue the same "breach of IPR" for people like MSD or RPLABS when they are developing the L8 ecu, but I dont really think this thread is the ideal place for such a discussion as it will pull it off course for Beefy.

Bottom line is that as a consumer, the Mtech V4 makes a massive amount of sense, and that is all that Beefy is going to care about, not who wrote which bits of the software etc!



Yeah a friend of mine is going to be using it too, seems very well specced from what I have heard but havent used one myself yet.
The problem with MS is of course the variable build standards, but at least these days there are companies you can buy a developed unit from.