Mike C

iTrader: (1)

Nope of course not....

But my opinion is, you SHOULD have your eyes on your TWO YEAR OLD kid at all times in a fucking shopping centre.



As for it being seconds, bollocks IMO.....

carlo

iTrader: (4)

Yes rab they were in kerlaw my uncle was a warden there many moons ago now

GUZZLER

iTrader: (3)

Chip, i see what your getting at but theres plenty of tearaway arsehole kids around, they don't go round killing toddlers.

they must have come from really shit homes & sparked when they were together.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes, lots of kids have been failed, but few have been failed to the extent that these boys had.

Yes im sure its likely to have been a product of both of their upbringings seperately and then also the unfortunate combination of ending up friends with each other and feeding off each others sadistic natures to get worse and worse.

I have no magic answer to stopping such a thing happening again, but I do think that we should be looking into how and why it did so we can get a step closer to some parts of that answer.

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Ah ... Pair of Bad eggs ... Age/Up-bringing might explain there actions but dont excuse them.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Have you ever seen anyone excuse them?
I certainly have never seen anyone do that, it would be madness, they are still guilty whatever the extenuating circumstances surrounding their upbringing might be.

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Nope ... I dont think anybody would be so silly to try and divert blame from what they did. Or feel sorry for them TBH.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well I do feel sorry for them that they never had a chance to even get a proper start in life, how they have turned out isnt their fault alone IMHO.

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough Chip ... Iam sure you are in the 0.009% who hold that opinion.

They have been granted something that 100% of all murder Victims dont get .. A second chance ..

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

Evil little cunts should never have been let out for what they did to that wee boy,fuck all to do with their upbringing what they did that day was pure indefensible evil .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I would be very interested in the details of any psychological evaluations they have undergone as I find it amazing they were deemed "safe" for release!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

So if it was nothing to do with their upbringing in your opinion where did the evil come from?
From their genetics?
From watching too much violence on TV?
Because they drank coca cola?


I would be genuinely interested in what you think it was that turned those boys evil but didnt other boys?

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

Just born evil m8 and stop trying to be a wide cunt with the coca cola shite,even after all these years people of all ages are still outraged at this terrible crime especially those in the liverpool area.

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Good point!

Maybe there time was simply up? Did the judge recomend a predetermined sentence?

Cannot remember all the details of the case as its so long ago ..

carlo

iTrader: (4)

There are loads of ppl around with a shite up bringing but they dont do that kind of stuff they are obviously just evil little cunts! There will be murderers out there that have had a good upbringing just the same

Alps Pacino

I think that some things that happen in a persons life especially childhood will make a difference as to who they become later on in life but people are born a certain way and what happens in there lives wouldnt make a difference if they were born evil.

There have been murders and real evil people throughout history that have come from good homes with no childhood problems but still go on to do horrific things, the only difference is that the ones from a bad back ground can hide or have that used as an excuse for the things that they do.

I look at it this way, i wouldnt like them living next to me even though they have been deemed "safe"

Chip

iTrader: (3)

So you believe that they were born evil, and nothing anyone could do could possibly save them from that?
And yet you dont feel sorry for them being born that way and having no chance at a normal life because they were disabled with a birth defect of being evil?


I wasnt being a wide cunt, I was merely trying to come down to your level with all my potential suggestions.
Of course it outrages people, its one of the most horrific crimes involving children ever.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

From what little I know on the subject, although many murders have "good" upbringings, ie they may have material things etc and not be beaten, there is still normally a traceable event or series of events that has taken them off the correct path in life, or more often a mental disability.
I dont personally think that people should be branded as "evil" as readily as they are, someone who kills people because they are schizophrenic for example isnt evil, they are merely very ill.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive never seen any crediable evidence to support that theory, have you or are you just making a wild stab in the dark?


Such as who? And are you sure you know all the details of their background?


I personally just struggle to believe they have been deemed safe, I cant even begin to imagine how the doctors involved came to that conclusion as it seems so unlikely, and like you im also ignorant enough that even if it genuinely was "fair" them being released I wouldnt want them near my family.

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=Chip;4764742
I wasnt being a wide cunt, I was merely trying to come down to your level with all my potential suggestions.
Of course it outrages people, its one of the most horrific crimes involving children ever.[/QUOTE]

My level ? you sit on the fence so much your arse must be riddled with splinters you condescending prick

Toymota

how do you know his eyes were gouged out and he had sticks shoved in him??

there were many reports about what happened and a lot of them were wrong. just wondered what makes you think you know so much about it?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes

Seems to really wind you up so much that I am capable of being objective in my analysis of the reason it happened despite the fact that like everyone else I am appauled by the crime itself, I genuinely have no idea why though.

If its something that we dont want to happen again, and im sure even people like yourself will have no trouble on agreeing that, then IMHO it needs analysis as to why it happened.

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

because they were evil and as you stated earlier they maybe fed off each thers sadism,but people like you feeling sorry for them in any way boils my piss big time,little jamie bulger didnt get a second chance did he

RickDraper

Its a tough one this is. I dont believe a child at the age of 8 is capable of making a very informed decision, what were the parents doing letting two 8 year olds roam around on there own? IMHO most of the blame lies with there parents and the up bringing.

However its very interesting to find out one is back behind bars and the other one is possibly jailed in Ireland. It would be interesting to find out if the other was 100% in jail.

Toymota

I think i agree with what you have been saying.

Prevention is better than cure. Its no good saying now 'they should be given the death penalty' and 'lock them up for good'. Yes this is what should happen buts already too late and that poor little boy is dead.

We now need to look at WHY it happened if we are the try to prevent anything like this happening again.

If someone had picked up and reacted to the fact that something wasnt right in these little boys heads in the first place, then this may never have happened.

All 3 boys have been failed and i seriously think the familys of the murders should take some responsibility for what happened!

MikeR

I would love to see a Pycologist (sp) comment on this as l understand exaclt y what you are saying Chip, something went wrong in their upbring that was beyond there control that made them act the way they did,

Still if those pictures are of now then he looks like a bad egg so jail him,

Mike

Chip

iTrader: (3)

They were just born evil and thats that?

FPMSL, I wish I could have an outlook on life as simple as you have, if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest man alive

No, he didnt get a second chance, the poor little mite got horrifically tortured and killed and I really hope that the people who need to be are looking into why so as to do anything they can to make any difference to the chances of some other totally innocent child suffering the same horrific fate.

I guess in your mind that means walking around a hospital and working out which kids that have just been born are evil, and slitting their throats there and then before they grow older and get a chance to hurt nice people?

RickDraper

Look at those 2 nutters from over Huddersfield way that were in court last month. They tried killing 2 young friends as there was nothing else to do where they lived. They seem to be from a very very similar mould to the Bulger killers....

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

IHMO alot of it is down to nurture not nature.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im glad my comments havent only landed on the screens of people incapable of understanding them.

Yes thats exactly how I feel.

My girlfriend has a 4 year old kid who I care for very much and try to help raise as best I can, I dont know how I could go on living if something like this happened to her like it did to poor little bulger, but likewise I would struggle to live with the guilt if she turned out like venables and thompson because of some failing on mine and her mothers part, so I would like to know just what these kids parents got so wrong in the first place to cause this to happen, and I dont for a second believe that its cause those 2 little boys were evil from the moment they were born and thats the end of it and this would have happened even if my parents had raised them instead, I cant believe there are people in the 21st century in a country with education as freely available as the UK who still are happy living their lives being that ignorant!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I believe there are elements of both in more or less everything we ever do.

XRdodgybird

Have you ever tried to walk with a child on reins? Kids learn to walk at different ages, and no one can say how well developed James Bulger's walking was, however, most young kids I know will sit down or even lay down when they put reins on them. Would you have you dragged him round the shopping centre? From personal experience, the only thing I can see that went wrong was that either she didn't have him strapped into a pushchair, because believe you me, shopping with a child in a busy shopping centre is so much easier, even if they are screaming their head off that they want to get out, than actually trying to walk them about and keep an eye on them. Children are mischievous by nature and will hide from you whenever they can. My five year old still does it and whilst sometimes it can be amusing, at other times it can be really worrying.

I could not possibly feel sorry for those two evil children who no doubt now, will still be two evil men. As stated on the news thousands of pounds (of British Tax payers' money) went into the rehabilitation of these two. What a bloody waste.

The alternative.... death by lethal injection - would make sure they don't hurt anyone else.

Stoo

I don't know enough about this to comment, but does anyone know if the two kids set out that day to murder someone, or was it a spur of the moment kinda thing where they saw Bulger and egged each other on?

bouncy

Is this not just another failing by our Social Services Dept

Chip

iTrader: (3)

From what little evidence ive seen in the public domain, it was kind of always on their agenda that if they got the chance they would do something like this, and had potentially even had a couple of attempts at snatching over kids.

I dont know if they intended to kill him, or just found it fun hurting him (like many kids will pull a cats tail or pull the legs off a daddylonglegs etc) and it never occurred to them to stop doing so.

10 is old enough to understand the concept of death IMHO for most people, so I suspect they probably DID intend to kill him too, but I doubt even they can really remember what they felt that day now so I doubt we will ever really know.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Potentially yes, or of course another failing by us as voters to vote in a government who are prepared to give adequete funding to child protection services.

A lot of the time people are blamed for things which are beyond their realistic ability to control with the resources they have available to them, I dont envy social services their scrutiny all the time TBH as I think most of it is unfair (not all though!).

Toymota

i honestly think that people havent understood what you meant when you said you feel sorry for the two murderers. they just think you feel sorry for them like you would feel sorry for a kid whos ice cream fell off its cone.

i understand what you mean though. you feel sorry for them because they have been let down so badly by their upbringing and the people who were part of it, that they have become murderers.

I dont think humans are born with the ability to murder other human beings. Somehow, it is something they turn in to and the key is to work out what makes them become muderers, no matter if they are 10 or 100 years old.

XRdodgybird

Who knows.... do 10 year olds plot to kill? Maybe, but I think it was probably more of a mischievous act that turned nasty and they just kept going....

If two 10 year olds did have their heads together discussing and contemplating a murder, how should bloody Social Services get to hear of it? Do you think they visited CAB to get legal advice before they did it?

Alps Pacino

I read a lot when i am offshore so although i have no hard evidence to support the theory, it seems that even the profesionals dont either so for either side of the argument is jut based on theory as how do you tell if someone is born to be a murder or not? If you could tell then you could prevent crime before it happens lol

Harold shipman is one sort of example, had a good up bringing with no mental or physical abuse but went on to murder a lot of people

Edited to say that i was talkign in general and not just about them to and tbh i know very little bout the case and the 2 that killed him

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, but TBH on this website its always a possiblity that even a simple concept will be misunderstood by some members


Yes I dont feel sorry for who they have become, I feel sorry for the 2 nice pleasant well brought up boys they could have been instead with proper parental input or mental health treatment or whatever it was they lacked!


Actually I kind of feel the opposite, I think that we are all born such that we can grow up able to kill and that the correct upbringing simply teaches us not to do so unless absolutely required.
Its all about how your own morals reflect on the act of killing, good men who are soliders kill without hesitation when they feel it is of benefit to do so for example, and I think most of us would do so in direct self defence as another example.
But we (well most of us) have learnt that hurting or killing other humans for entertainment or sport isnt acceptable.
Lots of us (the hunting brigade and many people who shoot or fish for sport) though do still feel happy to hand out pain or death to other animals for fun, just not our own species, which I find almost as killing other people for fun TBH