MSD Closed loop problem, help!
23-02-2010, 10:52 AM
#1
MSD Closed loop problem, help!
Hi guys,
I'm wondering if anyone has experienced a similar issue?
Done the wasted spark/closed loop conversion
The car will not go into closed loop at idle, has anyone else had this?
I'm running an independant bosch closed loop lambda sensor (not an output from a wideband)
The TPS is set correctly (0.25° at closed throttle via IAW monitor)
The base idle is set correctly (900-1000rpm with ISCV unplugged, coolant temp of 88°C)
The CO screw has been reset and adjusted but makes small difference
It idles at about 12.8:1 AFR. When I put the lights on, and the fans cut in, it leans off to about 14ish, but I'm going to do this, then unplug the lambda sensor, to see if it IS in closed loop at this state or not
The closed loop works everywhere, when driving, that it is supposed to, from what I've seen so far
The only thing I can think of, is that maybe the fueling in the map, is over 40% out at idle, and the closed loop can't correct it enough
Any ideas are more than welcome
I'm wondering if anyone has experienced a similar issue?
Done the wasted spark/closed loop conversion
The car will not go into closed loop at idle, has anyone else had this?
I'm running an independant bosch closed loop lambda sensor (not an output from a wideband)
The TPS is set correctly (0.25° at closed throttle via IAW monitor)
The base idle is set correctly (900-1000rpm with ISCV unplugged, coolant temp of 88°C)
The CO screw has been reset and adjusted but makes small difference
It idles at about 12.8:1 AFR. When I put the lights on, and the fans cut in, it leans off to about 14ish, but I'm going to do this, then unplug the lambda sensor, to see if it IS in closed loop at this state or not
The closed loop works everywhere, when driving, that it is supposed to, from what I've seen so far
The only thing I can think of, is that maybe the fueling in the map, is over 40% out at idle, and the closed loop can't correct it enough
Any ideas are more than welcome
23-02-2010, 11:11 AM
#2
PassionFord Post Whore!!
I think the tps needs to be set at -0.30 this is what I was told to set mine at for closed throttle, also the idle should be 850-900 with no iscv when hot, if it goes over 1000rpm it comes out of the idle stratergy.
The co screw should be between -25/+25%
if it's all at these settings and it's still not working then either the map is too rich at idle, the cam timing isn't set to the recomended figures, or you have an inlet leak.
If your 100% happy with everything else then Msd will do a new chip with less fuel on idle for you.
The co screw should be between -25/+25%
if it's all at these settings and it's still not working then either the map is too rich at idle, the cam timing isn't set to the recomended figures, or you have an inlet leak.
If your 100% happy with everything else then Msd will do a new chip with less fuel on idle for you.
23-02-2010, 11:22 AM
#3
I saw a htread last week where James @MSD said he sets the throttle to 0.2° when closed, unless I read it wrong
Idle was 900-950rpm with ISCV unplugged
Tried everything with the CO screw
Cam timing is all spot on, was before and its never been changed
I'm open to any suggestions as I'd love to get it working properly!
Idle was 900-950rpm with ISCV unplugged
Tried everything with the CO screw
Cam timing is all spot on, was before and its never been changed
I'm open to any suggestions as I'd love to get it working properly!
23-02-2010, 11:47 AM
#4
PassionFord Post Whore!!
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...o-at-idle.html
in there James says tps being set at 0.07 is ok but you can go down to -0.30 if you have a high co, as long as it goes over 80% flat out.
I'd at least try it, also do a pressure test of the inlet system, ud be surprised at what leaks you may find.
in there James says tps being set at 0.07 is ok but you can go down to -0.30 if you have a high co, as long as it goes over 80% flat out.
I'd at least try it, also do a pressure test of the inlet system, ud be surprised at what leaks you may find.
23-02-2010, 11:48 AM
#5
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James,
Does the car control the idle properly with the ISCV ??
To test this,
Put your foot on the brake in first gear and without touching the throttle, raise the clutch very very slowly to the biting point.
You should feel the engine apply more load to maintain the idle speed.
If that works ok, allow the car to idle once up to temperature and unplug the TPS and observe the idle CO for a few minutes.
If all seems ok, unplug 1 injector while running (anyone) for about 20 seconds then plug it back in and observe the CO over a period of about 2 minutes and see if it corrects.
(We are applying a disturbance in order to get the closed loop to work hard)
Otherwise, if all looks ok, your fuel pressure may be a bit high or you have a vacuum hose to regulator leak possibly.
The lambda sensor may be faulty but can only be tested with an osciloscope properly.
Does the car control the idle properly with the ISCV ??
To test this,
Put your foot on the brake in first gear and without touching the throttle, raise the clutch very very slowly to the biting point.
You should feel the engine apply more load to maintain the idle speed.
If that works ok, allow the car to idle once up to temperature and unplug the TPS and observe the idle CO for a few minutes.
If all seems ok, unplug 1 injector while running (anyone) for about 20 seconds then plug it back in and observe the CO over a period of about 2 minutes and see if it corrects.
(We are applying a disturbance in order to get the closed loop to work hard)
Otherwise, if all looks ok, your fuel pressure may be a bit high or you have a vacuum hose to regulator leak possibly.
The lambda sensor may be faulty but can only be tested with an osciloscope properly.
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 23-02-2010 at 11:50 AM.
23-02-2010, 12:09 PM
#7
Stu,
Says he here aims for .20 closed and over 80 at WOT. Mine is 0.25 closed and 82.2 WOT
https://passionford.com/forum/techni...cv-issues.html
Cheers Simon, will try all that!
Says he here aims for .20 closed and over 80 at WOT. Mine is 0.25 closed and 82.2 WOT
https://passionford.com/forum/techni...cv-issues.html
Cheers Simon, will try all that!
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23-02-2010, 12:34 PM
#12
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Yea me to lol and I'm in Croydon so not far from u either. I'm gettin mine setup at Reyland, takin my iaw with me to.
There's only so much you can do with tools and settings that 'should' work the rest is down to experience and knowing what you can get away with.
There's only so much you can do with tools and settings that 'should' work the rest is down to experience and knowing what you can get away with.
23-02-2010, 12:36 PM
#13
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Yea me to lol and I'm in Croydon so not far from u either. I'm gettin mine setup at Reyland, takin my iaw with me to.
There's only so much you can do with tools and settings that 'should' work the rest is down to experience and knowing what you can get away with.
There's only so much you can do with tools and settings that 'should' work the rest is down to experience and knowing what you can get away with.
23-02-2010, 01:38 PM
#15
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Yea not too far, we go gokartin in Crawley quite a bit, and my birds mum and dad live in forest row so I'm round ur neck of the woods quite often, never in the 5 tho lol
yea hopefully it's an easy fix, mines workin fine but doesn't means it's at it's best lol
yea hopefully it's an easy fix, mines workin fine but doesn't means it's at it's best lol
for any more ideas 
24-02-2010, 10:31 AM
#19
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Lol if he's anything like me he won't wanna bother busy people with a silly little question, plus it's nice to have it written down somewhere that you can always go back to.
24-02-2010, 10:47 AM
#20
Yes, I am in email contact with Stu, which I find easier, as I tend to forget to mention things over the phone. I've sent Stu 3 datalogs from last night, which he requested, so hopefully that will show something up
Exactly Stu, plus the fact, people tend to remember things that happen to their own car, (if they've had similar problems) very well! AND it may help others in the future once I get this sorted
26-02-2010, 12:34 PM
#28
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Msd are good like that, did the same for me.
Yes m8 it's wicked fun, 200 bhp/trq, roof down system up cruising car.
I'm a bit old for it now tho and get embarressed by the attention it gets, lol
I'm gunna restore it back to it's former glory by putting a STD bodykit back on it.
I might even put it back on the road for summer this year.
Yes m8 it's wicked fun, 200 bhp/trq, roof down system up cruising car.
I'm a bit old for it now tho and get embarressed by the attention it gets, lol
I'm gunna restore it back to it's former glory by putting a STD bodykit back on it.
I might even put it back on the road for summer this year.
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