danneth

just having abit of a debate on another forum just wondered what you guys thoughts was on this... it was about if someone broke into your shed

"Well, the shed is YOUR property, on YOUR land, and they are stealing YOUR things. Then the right of break in becomes apparent, and you can use equal force. Since they're in a shed, one would assume the availability of spades, some sharpe objects, perhaps knifes, in which case I believe you'd be within your legal right to go and stab said burglars"

the bold bit is the bit im interested in is this your legal right? try and stick to answering it based on the statement not if they pick something up or they come at you with something just the fact that there in your shed and theres a " chance" they could use something then your ok to go and stab them...

random i know

nilrem

please do not take this as fact as i am no legal bod, however i do believe that you can only retaliate of they attack you first, BUT you can ask them to leave, if they refuse then they are tresspassing and "reasonable" force can be used - and with such the avaliability of sharp & heavy items laying about, "reasonable" force could possibly be seen as a bat round the head...



just get your neighbour to witness that he went for you first with a knife!

fish99

You can use force to protect yourself, an other or your property, but as said before the force must be reasonable and you must be able to justify this. You dont need to be attacked before you use force as common law comes into it..but you must show that you believed that unlawful violence was imminent and your force was such to repel/prevent such attack.

Read R v Heggarty or R v Beckford for more information with regards to case law.

Section 3 Criminal Law Act 1967


If your talking about just doing someone with some tools which you have laying around in your shed just because they are there..then I think you will be hard pushed to justify that.. even under instant arming

The bottom line is from reading your above it... Just because he is stealing your things you dont have the right to stab them.. sorry but you would be gripping the rail for that one

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

dan what you really do is strangle them till they pass out then ring the fuzz when they arrive tell them that they went for you with i.e an object... there no marks on the intruder or you so its his say vs yours when he finally comes round....he gets arrested and your smiling. when you next come round ill show you how to grab the throat its a usefull tool as to when you grab the person thoat and apply said preasure the human body concentrates on breathing rather than fighting. this give you enough time to hit the lower leg sending them south bound..and it leaves them with a sore throat for a few day....

other than what i do and have plenty of exsperiance doing it... i do think you can use reasonably force.

danneth

its nothing to do with me, just a debate thats going on basically the person who wrote that says he just passed his laws exmas and im questioning that you can really go and stab someone just because they broke into your shed and there could be a chance that they " could " use something


matt im glad i live on the cross and dont have to worry about break ins

Isaac.Hunt

The key word here and in the eyes of the law is reasonable. Just because you're in a shed doesn't mean you automatically have the right to stab the burglers with a pitchfork, same as you don't automatically have the right to stab someone if you were in a kitchen where knifes are readily available.

If the burglars presents some type of physical threat, for example were trying to stab you with a knife, a reciprocal attempt at stabbing would be for more justified and reasonable.

It's common sense really.

Isaac.Hunt

What "exams" is he refering to? Is he a Bachelor of Laws? If so it would seem standards have certainly slipped in recent times.

fish99

let him stab someone for being in his shed just stealing items... Ill be in the public gallery observing as he is in the dock.

Its all reasonable force as said many times.. is that reasonable.. no. Simples

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

good comment mate.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

one persons resonable force may not be the same as anothers

it's what you can justify as resonable force in a court of law if it comes to that

JohnnyB

I agree, if they have no weapons on them, the only force you you feed back to them is a punch in the face.

then if they grab a knife from the bench, then the threat has increased 10 fold, at that point your fighting for you life, then any means will do.

callummarshall

so ive got a slightly illgeal knife in my room (5" semi Serrated tanto blade) and if say some burgalers were to berak into my hose at night and i was to stab one of them in self defence what would happen?

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

you say they had a knife aswell.

callummarshall

ok so its an equal force?

danneth

went over your head

focusv8

If you were in the shed and they came in, then if you picked up a fork and pushed it towards them you'd have a strong defence.
If you were in your house and went outside to the shed with any weapon you'd have a very weak defence.

.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

yup.

matts1

After a break in, my misses mate told the copper that her fella was going to go downstairs and confront them with a bat.

The copper told her had they came upstairs and he struck them he would most likely have been on, but had he gone downstair and done it he would have been in trouble as he would have been actively seeking them out.

Guess this could be the same, if you actively go out to takle them rather than call the police.

But by the same token, if you heard a noise, disturbed them and got startled and grabbed something to hand?

Think that is the key, you would have to prove you did not go after then with a weapon, but on being attacked you grabbed what was to hand to defend yourself.

1.9 xr2 on 40's

hit em hard and use the shovel to dig a hole

callummarshall

haha too right it noramlly gypo scum thats in my hose anyway well it has been the last 3 times noboady will miss them

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

You are within your rights to use reasonable force, unfortunately/fortunately stabbing people is not seen as reasonable in any court.

Why did you stab him when you could have hit him? hitting someone who maybe armed could be seen as reasonable where as stabbing would still be man slaughter, depending upon when you got the knife, if you went back into your house to get the knife it could be arguably be pre meditated.

Rob,

timrud

Already been mentioned, but you would have to be in reasonable fear for you own safety.

The scenario of burgler in shed is quite broad, there are many more circumstances to consider. Was he armed? Did he come for you? Were they alone? Even what time of day was it?

Essentially any injury you inflic on them is instantly assault. It is weather you could raise the nessesary defence. Two key points are, you would have to be in the firm belief you were about to be assaulted yourself AND you should only use reasonable force.

See the recent case of that businessman who was jailed for assaulting a burgular. Quite rightly too.