Best Tuner around leicester?
04-01-2005, 10:45 PM
#1
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Best Tuner around leicester?
hey, i own a series 2 rs turbo, and want to get it set up,
any1 know where a good tuner is based around the leicester area? or the east midlandS?
many thxs simon
any1 know where a good tuner is based around the leicester area? or the east midlandS?
many thxs simon
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05-01-2005, 01:46 PM
#9
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I doubt Graham Goode would work on RST's these days mate, they're more into Jap stuff now.........plus I don't think they'd enjoyed a very good rep in recent years & are overpriced. If I was you & wanting to stay fairly local I'd go with Karl Norris as others have suggested 
05-01-2005, 01:49 PM
#10
GGR is steep and sets his cars up on the safe side of power so dont expect shed loads of grunt but it should be high quality work, you will pay for it though.
I WOULD NOT USE street racers in Thurmaston, he has a new rolling road and can manage to get just 270bhp from a stage3 setup on a cossie, still runs rough
There are plenty of people NOT to use in Leicester I`m afraid.
I have heard plenty about NMS in Coventry though so maybe try Karl? let us know who you use and how it goes
I WOULD NOT USE street racers in Thurmaston, he has a new rolling road and can manage to get just 270bhp from a stage3 setup on a cossie, still runs rough
There are plenty of people NOT to use in Leicester I`m afraid.
I have heard plenty about NMS in Coventry though so maybe try Karl? let us know who you use and how it goes
15-01-2005, 01:30 PM
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I love all theses "Specialists" you are suggesting that dont use rollers to set the cars up.
How can they tell that their adjustments are making a power increase or a power loss, without the use of a rolling road.
What, "it feels a bitter quicker".......LOL
"oh that doesnt feel as quick"....LOL
How can they tell that their adjustments are making a power increase or a power loss, without the use of a rolling road.
What, "it feels a bitter quicker".......LOL
"oh that doesnt feel as quick"....LOL
15-01-2005, 01:41 PM
#15
Originally Posted by JAMSPORT DAN
I love all theses "Specialists" you are suggesting that dont use rollers to set the cars up.
How can they tell that their adjustments are making a power increase or a power loss, without the use of a rolling road.
What, "it feels a bitter quicker".......LOL
"oh that doesnt feel as quick"....LOL
How can they tell that their adjustments are making a power increase or a power loss, without the use of a rolling road.
What, "it feels a bitter quicker".......LOL
"oh that doesnt feel as quick"....LOL
All cars should be setup in real time environments once initial setup has been done.
15-01-2005, 01:46 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by JAMSPORT DAN
I love all theses "Specialists" you are suggesting that dont use rollers to set the cars up.
15-01-2005, 01:54 PM
#18
Because @ 150 mph there is more air going into it than the in a aircon'd room with a desk fan....end of. If you ask most specialist that setup with a RR, they always complete the setup on the road, cause you can't mimic real life stuff with a RR.
AVA have the biggest fans on a RR, and have under car vents pulling air through, they almost blew my bonnet clean off. And they setup the final bit on the road (according to our weeegie friend
)
AVA have the biggest fans on a RR, and have under car vents pulling air through, they almost blew my bonnet clean off. And they setup the final bit on the road (according to our weeegie friend
)
15-01-2005, 02:08 PM
#21
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So what are the 2 Giant Fans for in front of the rollers for then???
Every rolling road tune that Jamie does goes out on a road test after the set up to listen out for pinking etc..
You still havent answered the question.
How do you know if a car is making power or losing power without a rolling road.........?
Every rolling road tune that Jamie does goes out on a road test after the set up to listen out for pinking etc..
You still havent answered the question.
How do you know if a car is making power or losing power without a rolling road.........?
15-01-2005, 02:10 PM
#22
U go out to listen to pinking MY GOD.
THink i will stick with the wideband for fuel/air mixture and the a45 ta...
If its fast its making power, if it slows down it aint ?
Mine was first mapped on dyno, and its MUCH faster now its been mapped on the road.....
So as far as i am concerned, if its fast its right
THink i will stick with the wideband for fuel/air mixture and the a45 ta...
If its fast its making power, if it slows down it aint ?
Mine was first mapped on dyno, and its MUCH faster now its been mapped on the road.....
So as far as i am concerned, if its fast its right
15-01-2005, 02:24 PM
#24
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We use an AFR meter, gas analyser and listen with det cans.
And we also do a road test after a set up, but Dans original query was how can you tell if each adjustment you make, makes power or loses power.
And we also do a road test after a set up, but Dans original query was how can you tell if each adjustment you make, makes power or loses power.
15-01-2005, 02:30 PM
#25
I do see what your saying but then dan has also insulted every other tuner with no rollers in the area, cause they are not specialists.
I would class karl as was of THE specialists in the area, i do not know of many tuners that have had a 100% reliable rate of tune.
There are not many people map cars for a living, and not one for a massive company like Karl works for and he uses an engine dyno not the RR.
I would class karl as was of THE specialists in the area, i do not know of many tuners that have had a 100% reliable rate of tune.
There are not many people map cars for a living, and not one for a massive company like Karl works for and he uses an engine dyno not the RR.
15-01-2005, 02:42 PM
#26
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Apologies for dans wording, however the original point he was making was how can you tell if each adjustment you make, makes power or loses power.
Yes you can set are car up to a certain extent without a rolling road, but in "my opinion" you would never be able to see if you had made a loss or increase of power through the entire rev range.
Please excuse my manor but how many RS Turbos have you set up RichardPON?
Regards
Jamie.
Yes you can set are car up to a certain extent without a rolling road, but in "my opinion" you would never be able to see if you had made a loss or increase of power through the entire rev range.
Please excuse my manor but how many RS Turbos have you set up RichardPON?
Regards
Jamie.
15-01-2005, 02:45 PM
#27
I aint done any, but i aint a tuner, karl how ever has probably done more than most PON aint done many
Oli's S1 is going on the rollers soon as to look at a few things.
I would say if you have done the rr work on loads of different specs, when you are a speicalist you know how they should feel with out the aid of graph's. But if there is somert not quite right then the rollers are handy,....
Swings n round abouts realy.
PON aint done many Oli's S1 is going on the rollers soon as to look at a few things.
I would say if you have done the rr work on loads of different specs, when you are a speicalist you know how they should feel with out the aid of graph's. But if there is somert not quite right then the rollers are handy,....
Swings n round abouts realy.
15-01-2005, 02:47 PM
#29
Ive had my rst set up in the past at several well know rolling roads and its never run to good on the road at speed.
Went to Karl Norris and its run perfect all the time,Plus its a lot faster
Theres no way im ever having another car set up on the rollers again!
Went to Karl Norris and its run perfect all the time,Plus its a lot faster
Theres no way im ever having another car set up on the rollers again!
15-01-2005, 02:57 PM
#32
Just for the record and only because another tuner has asked;
My live mapping hardware uses G monitoring, so i can tell to within 0.01 G wether the car is pulling as hard as it was in my preferred tuning gear (4th usually for me), and it can also be datalogged in case im working alone, this logging gives me an RPM based G graph should i require one to compare 2 different maps side by side (My mapping hardware will run 2 maps simultaneously so i can press a key, do a run and then press the key again and run again, logging teh results safely.
However, much of this can be academic in many ways as providing the AFR is correct at your preffered level and you have backed down to your preferred safety zone away from the area of detonation (After ascertaining its existence) & your intake manifold pressure is at your preffered level, the engine will then "Make what it makes" as i like to say.
Most of teh difference between road and roller tuning is very simple to explain:
1) Cooling.
100+mph is serious folks.. try and stand on teh roof of teh car and tell me a rolling road fan is as strong. You will often find cars mapped on rollers are mapped at the wrong temperature load site.
2) Intake pressure.
For teh same reason as above, airbox pressures sometimes can go positive above 65mph with many designs. (Look at ramair designs) Shove a boost gauge in your intake and try it. With a turbochargers compressor and adiabatic efficiency level being dramatically effected by the intake pressure, this has big issues on fuelling. Do your "Pout/Pin =" calculations to see.
3) Exhaust scavenging.
In many cases its proven that 130+mph creates an airpressure behind teh vehicle that directly affects airflow from the exhaust.
4) Total load.
The load an engine is under at 100mph full bore up a hill with the corresponding EGT's and IAT's is nothing like anything that can be simulated IMO. The first clue of this is the common issue of people running less boost on the rollers than they see on the road, or conversely, running more boost on the way home than the roller operator set it too
Anyway...
No matter of road tuning or roller tuning will make a 300bhp air pump suddenly pump 350bhp worth of air chaps. Rolling roads are invaluable tools if allied to a good knowledgable tuner to operate it, and bench Dyno's are a whole league above this being damn close to real road high load tuning, (but terrible for any transient tuning) but i promise you i can do just as good a job as a chassis dyno without one. Albeit it, some of it would be a damn site easier, and mucho warmer, if i did have one..lol
Dan from Jamsport specified clearly that they check settings on the road afterwards, proving that they do agree with the majority of us and just worded it differently so thats the end of that i guess, enough "Tuner Wars" now please fellas...
My live mapping hardware uses G monitoring, so i can tell to within 0.01 G wether the car is pulling as hard as it was in my preferred tuning gear (4th usually for me), and it can also be datalogged in case im working alone, this logging gives me an RPM based G graph should i require one to compare 2 different maps side by side (My mapping hardware will run 2 maps simultaneously so i can press a key, do a run and then press the key again and run again, logging teh results safely.
However, much of this can be academic in many ways as providing the AFR is correct at your preffered level and you have backed down to your preferred safety zone away from the area of detonation (After ascertaining its existence) & your intake manifold pressure is at your preffered level, the engine will then "Make what it makes" as i like to say.
Most of teh difference between road and roller tuning is very simple to explain:
1) Cooling.
100+mph is serious folks.. try and stand on teh roof of teh car and tell me a rolling road fan is as strong. You will often find cars mapped on rollers are mapped at the wrong temperature load site.
2) Intake pressure.
For teh same reason as above, airbox pressures sometimes can go positive above 65mph with many designs. (Look at ramair designs) Shove a boost gauge in your intake and try it. With a turbochargers compressor and adiabatic efficiency level being dramatically effected by the intake pressure, this has big issues on fuelling. Do your "Pout/Pin =" calculations to see.
3) Exhaust scavenging.
In many cases its proven that 130+mph creates an airpressure behind teh vehicle that directly affects airflow from the exhaust.
4) Total load.
The load an engine is under at 100mph full bore up a hill with the corresponding EGT's and IAT's is nothing like anything that can be simulated IMO. The first clue of this is the common issue of people running less boost on the rollers than they see on the road, or conversely, running more boost on the way home than the roller operator set it too
Anyway...
No matter of road tuning or roller tuning will make a 300bhp air pump suddenly pump 350bhp worth of air chaps. Rolling roads are invaluable tools if allied to a good knowledgable tuner to operate it, and bench Dyno's are a whole league above this being damn close to real road high load tuning, (but terrible for any transient tuning) but i promise you i can do just as good a job as a chassis dyno without one. Albeit it, some of it would be a damn site easier, and mucho warmer, if i did have one..lol
Dan from Jamsport specified clearly that they check settings on the road afterwards, proving that they do agree with the majority of us and just worded it differently so thats the end of that i guess, enough "Tuner Wars" now please fellas...
15-01-2005, 03:19 PM
#37
JAMBO,
Your comments were very adverse towards a rolling road Stu.
I thought you were inquiring about buying a rolling road.
Excuse me if I am wrong.
Your comments were very adverse towards a rolling road Stu.
I thought you were inquiring about buying a rolling road.
Excuse me if I am wrong.
Stu @ M Developments,
Rolling roads are invaluable tools if allied to a good knowledgable tuner to operate it, and bench Dyno's are a whole league above this being damn close to real road high load tuning, (but terrible for any transient tuning) but i promise you i can do just as good a job as a chassis dyno without one. Albeit it, some of it would be a damn site easier, and mucho warmer, if i did have one..lol
Dan from Jamsport specified clearly that they check settings on the road afterwards, proving that they do agree with the majority of us and just worded it differently so thats the end of that i guess, enough "Tuner Wars" now please fellas...
Rolling roads are invaluable tools if allied to a good knowledgable tuner to operate it, and bench Dyno's are a whole league above this being damn close to real road high load tuning, (but terrible for any transient tuning) but i promise you i can do just as good a job as a chassis dyno without one. Albeit it, some of it would be a damn site easier, and mucho warmer, if i did have one..lol
Dan from Jamsport specified clearly that they check settings on the road afterwards, proving that they do agree with the majority of us and just worded it differently so thats the end of that i guess, enough "Tuner Wars" now please fellas...
We intend to sink some rollers into the floor at the new unit (When its one day completed
) but 70% of mapping will still be done on the road. Like i say though, its an invaluable tool and i look forward to operating a decent set once again cos i miss em at times.. especially when designing speedo convertors that require the wheels be in motion or having to interogate signals as we very often do.
15-01-2005, 03:40 PM
#38
It Wasnt Me!
Originally Posted by wildheart
Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh
Wildheart, wouldnt rule out getting a set up on a RR, i'd rule out who youve used in the past for a set up tho by the sounds of it.
15-01-2005, 03:42 PM
#39
Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh
Wildheart, wouldnt rule out getting a set up on a RR, i'd rule out who youve used in the past for a set up tho by the sounds of it.
But the guys there are top people, and very helpful and have the BEST RR in the country
Will be up soon
