Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Please DON'T turn this to shite - I'm interested in peoples genuine and sensible opinions and NOT a load of bandwagon jumping arsewipes who can't contribute anything sensible - if it turns to shite I'll get deleted

With Muslims establishing their own schools, one wonders how their kids will acquire our values and be able to successfully integrate into our society.

This incident happened in London ..

The Uncomfortable Definition of an Infidel....

FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK

Last month I attended my annual training session for maintaining my security clearance in the prison service.

There was a presentation by three speakers from the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say about the basics of Islam, complete with video.

After the presentations, question time. I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a Holy War against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statement and, without hesitation he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not a follower of Allah, so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the biscuit tin.

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill Muslims, or the Archbishop of Canterbury ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

The Imam was speechless!



I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because He will take me to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam remained speechless.

Needless to say, the organizers of the Diversification seminar were not happy with this way of exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

Within twenty years, ie. 2029, there will be enough Muslim voters in the UK to elect a government of their choice, complete with Sharia law.

Everyone in the U.K. should be required to read this, but with the current political paralysis, tolerant justice system, liberal media and P.C.madness, there is no way this will be widely publicised.

Shings

Very good -

Only bit I dont get - where does this come from...

Wheres the reference and truth and documents supporting that MOST imams and clerics have declared a Holy War.

Other than that... I am off to Canada lol

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

I agree mate - I doubt very much most have declared a war and I suspect most are against it.

Physio

Sounds like a typical scare mongering email generated by the BNP.

C4llyT

Interesting reading.
Mohammed, if you take all variations/spellings, is the most popular newborn boy name in this country I believe.
Fucked up that.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

My opinion, is that is made up, presumably by white racists.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Maybe - but whether you believe it or not, or even if it's true or not - it shows what a powerful tool the internet can be.

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

sounds like a total load of made up nonsense to me to be honest mate

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Surely the only "tool" is the person who reads that and thinks its genuine?

collierm

I've seen someone have a similar discussion before about this, but the questions were slightly different and the Imam managed to hold his ground better.

My opinion is that Sharia law can be used when you have a society of beliefs already and it can't be used to impose a system of beliefs that weren't there beforehand. England is still fundamentally a Christian country, but becoming more and more secular. Just because by 2029 they may be more Muslims in the UK, doesn't mean we only have 19 more years of Christian governing. It would take a lot, and I mean a lot of change before this would happen here.

Personally, I have no issues with Islam. It has its good points and bad points same as any other religion. Its going through the bad press because of terrorism. Imagine if the Internet and media services had been around when Catholics were slaying non believers (pagans etc) in the name of God. Doubt it would be in the same state it is today preaching love and understanding. Religion is just something that people choose to believe to help them in their day to day lives.

I'm an immigrant in the good ol' Middle East and I work with Muslims and not one of them believes in forcing religion on anybody. Moderate Muslims have even suggested secular societies, so its not as close minded as some people would have you believe.

Terrorists are not Muslims. Find me one religiously knowlegeable person and ask them the question, they'll tell you the same thing. Terrorists have latched onto Islam to give their bloodthirsty bullshit a cause.

S1

Dont believe everything you see on t'interweb!

http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...h_or_jesus.htm

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Again, maybe....but you still missed the point that whether anything is true or not, it shows how powerful the web can be....I don't believe it, but how many actually do ?

Rick Astley

Surely there are elements of the Islamic community that do indeed agree with the above. Which would make them on a far more worse level than racists, that would be terrorism, surely.

ZTSI

i do understand that they want thier own place to worship, but own schools is taking it too far in my book, I have no problem with people moving to the UK but as long as they integrate into our society. But it could be said for many other people coming in to the UK really.
Iv had good muslim freinds and have know many for years now. iv worked with many diffrent ethnic backgrounds and most of them i havnt had a problem with it is just a handful of people that have a problem, chip on thier shoulders.

Like i said i dont have a problem with anyone that does their bit for the country,

Mike C

iTrader: (1)

Yes, lots of them...

It may be exaggerated, but there are certainly elements of truth in the original post.

It's certainly food for thought...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

LMAO @ you sounding like you so desperately WANT to beleive that is true.

I can guarentee you there is not one single true follower of the islamic faith anywhere on the planet who is a terrorist, as being a terrorist goes against everything that the peaceful islamic religion stands for.

Anyone claiming to be a terrorist and a follower of islam, is just a terrorist and a liar.

Just like you cant be a true christian and a terrorist either.

collierm

I was reading the other day on another forum about a woman who posted on the Islam4UK forum complaining how her children were being taught about Hannuka, Diwali, Christmas etc and didn't think it was appropriate for her Muslim children. Very next reply was her husband saying she'd insisted they went to a multi cultural school to learn

Hypocrite!!

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Chip is right, the terrorists are generally people who have taken their faith the wrong way. Muslims on a whole are generally peaceful, its when they 'get the wrong end of the stick' so to speak, that terroism occurs.

The Joker

I feel that if a certain religion regardless of type is telling you to kill people in its name then it does not deserve a place into today's society. We have come to a stage in this world where we need to all help each other and save what is technically a dying planet. Sounds a bit green but fact is its true. I can also say that given my job i meet new people every day i work in there homes and received views from all walks of life. The Muslims ive met and spoke with about these issues are just as disgusted at such things as terrorist bombing as general English folk, It gives them a bad name. Extremists are a minority and whist they will never be stamped out completely they will never win.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Much like the IRA are of course not following the catholic faith that they claim to represent either!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Agreed, which is why neither the christian faith or the islamic faith does so of course.



Its a shame that so many english people are so totally ignorant about islam and yet try and judge its followers anyway.


Its like judging all catholics by the IRA


Acheives nothing other than suppling further fuel to the whole fire for the extremists on both sides.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

The IRA did a good job of 'policing' their areas though. Shame they started blowing people up too

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The irony of the original post of course, is that Muslims believe in, jesus in the first place, he is one of their most beloved religious characters (they call him a prophet)

Dangerous Malcolm..

There are loads of passages in the Koran relating to waging war, killing infidels etc. They're easy enough to find on the tinterweb!

But as with every other religion, it's down to INTERPRETATION!

I don't think we'll ever see shariah law in this country, but it's inevitable in many years with the changing population that certain elements of Islamic law will find their way into British law.

The Joker

Agreed on all points. I dont know alot about any religion as i dont follow. However i will never judge anyone on there religion/race due to the fact that there are good people and evil people from all walks.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The old testament of the christian bible states in it that if you rape someone, you have to put it right by giving her dad some money and marrying her


There really is no point looking at weird and wonderful quirky passages from a 1000 year old text and applying it to the religions of today.

Dangerous Malcolm..

Precisely!

The extremists, whatever the religion, and their interpretation are the cunts, no-one else.

Iain Mac

I don't agree with terrorism regardless of the colour or "faith" of the people doing it, but it is maybe important to note that the IRA is not a Catholic organisation. However, as about 75% of the Irish population is Catholic, they are undoubtedly the majority of the IRA.

The IRA in Belfast had Protestant commanders (nicknamed 'The Prod Squad') including Billy Smith, Rex Thompson and John Graham. Ivor Bell was another Protestant IRA member who was on the Provisional IRA Army Council.

Irish republicanism was, arguable, founded by a Protestant called Wolfe Tone who once said;
"To subvert the tyranny of our execrable government, to break the connection with England, the never-failing source of all our political evils and to assert the independence of my country- these were my objectives. To unite the whole people of Ireland, to abolish the memory of all past dissensions, and to substitute the common name of Irishman in place of the denominations of Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter - these were my means."-

Chip

iTrader: (3)

By defintion it was ZERO percent who actually followed the catholic religion properly, but its still viewed as a catholic orginsation just like al queda is viewed as a muslim one, but in both cases im sure they will accept a nutter of any "faith" or none at all, if they are confident they will kill people for them etc.

Iain Mac

Can't disagree with that!

In a perverse sort of a way I can sometimes understand why people would take up an armed struggle and whether the people doing this are "good" or "bad" depends entirely on your own viewpoint. For instance, the French Resistance were heroes for fighting against the Nazi invaders, but we are surprised that Iraqis and Afghanis fight against us when we are in their country uninvited and probably illegally. I'm quite happy to say that if we had been occupied by the Iraqi or Afghani army, we'd also be resiting!!!

Closer to home, the Irish republic was borne out of an armed struggle that was supported by the people's desire to be independent of Britain but we criticise the Northern Irish who later used the same methods to try and achieve their goal of a united Ireland (how much trouble would have been avoided if we hadn't insisted on partitioning the 6 Counties?), though I guess that they did go quite a lot further in taking the struggle to the mainland and involved non-combatants.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Agreed, the people fighting our troops believe that they are defending their nation from a hostile and unwanted attacker just like we would if it was the other way around, and we would of course use terrorist tactics like the ones we taught Al Queada too.

There is a lot of hypocracy in the whole situation!

Dlatch!

Ban all religion until they can decide on one and stick with it

census this year will make interesting reading

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

As said already, you read it one way and it will say exactly that by the "too long in the sun its made me nuts" lot OR you get it read another way by your "Zainab Masood's that its all friendly just your son cant be a Bumder" lot.

i dont know the religion inside out so i cant say what is the correct version and whats not as it isnt my religion. personally anyone with a religion that says about death to people then stay in your "homeland" and defend it dont come here with it