g10ens

.........

frs2208

were you pulling prolonged wheelies?

arch

When you received the original NIP, what was the offence alleged? ie, due care etc?

There is no method of appeal against a 59, although I am sure there will be stories posted to the contrary.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You cant dispute a section 59, as I got wrongly given one and tried, to no effect.

Just take it on the chin mate, no real harm done, just make sure it doesnt happen again, cause second one in 12 months they confiscate the vehicle and you end up out of pocket getting it back.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

shouldnt have admitted it...i did nothing was done further.

Graham88

On this note, can Section 59's be posted to you? I was playing silly bollocks in the snow and the staff at Bluewater informed me I'd be getting a Section 59 through the post, doesn't overly matter but just wondered if they could do that, I thought you had to sign for it?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes they can, and when you post them back, then send them to you again I found

g10ens

[QUOTE=arch;4611101]When you received the original NIP, what was the offence alleged? ie, due care etc?

The original offence was driving without due care and attention


I havent admitted to the offence, all ive done so far is said that i was riding the bike at the time of the alleged offence as its a 6 penaly point offence not to supply the details of who was in charge of the vehicle at the time

Yes they can be posted and there is a section for you to sign and return to the police to acknowledge receipt of the notice. But it seems that i am signing just to say that ive received the notice and understand that any vehicle i am caught using in an un-sociable manner in the next 12 months can be seized from me.

I find it hard to believe that this sort of notice can be issued to people based solely on the word of an off duty officer with no way of being able to dispute it, if they had taken me to court i would have had the oppurtunity to fight the allegation and have a judge make a decision based on the evidence provided and i cannot see how the opinion of an off duty officer could stand up as hard evidence in court.

cossiejay

i would not admit to reciving it

James998

I recieved a section 59 about a year ago for undertaking an off duty police officer in his personal car because he was dordelling at 60mph in the outside lane of a dual carriage way. He noted my reg down and came to my house the next day in full uniform on his high horse, marked police car parked on the road etc. He was surprised when I didn't deny what I had done, but it seemed whatever I had said would have made no difference. He also told me that if there were further witnesses he would have taken me to court for dangerous driving :/

Oh, and i've still got the slip but I haven't signed it..

g10ens

I think il just leave it un-signed and keep hold of it for now then and see what happens, if i get a phonecall or a knock on the door then il just say i forgot about it and then sign and return it, theres nothing on it to say it has to be returned within 7 days or anything like that.
I think this is just an easy way of them giving me a punishment because they know their evidence would be worthless in court.

fiend

iTrader: (1)

I was under the impression that a Section 59 could only be given out by a police officer in uniform?

"A constable in uniform has the power to order the person driving to stop the vehicle..."

http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?op...267&Itemid=492

Benni

Be careful how you go about these things. Claiming you forgot will go as neglect I'm sure.

Benni.

James998

He was in uniform when he gave me the paperwork, if it was my post you were referring to.

g10ens

I was reported by a off duty officer but the section 59 has been sent to me by an on duty officer who is dealing with the report he received from the off duty officer. I think the police only need a report from a member of the public in order to be able to issue one of these section 59's, which i think is bang out of order as there is no way of disputing it from what i can see which makes it a far easier option than court for the police!
The bit about a police constable in uniform i think is referring to when they seize the vehicle from you if you commit a second offence within 12 months.

24v4x4

How long was the wheelie?

Caprigirl

Next time dont get caught

24vcossiemat

personally your a bit of a muppet for doing a prelonged wheelie, but regardless I don't think they should be able to issue these without being able to appeal it.. else they could just find anyone they don't like and issue these.. but i wouldn't worry anyway, when they sieze your car round where i live you can get it back but it costs 150 quid plus 20 quid a day to get it back.. I don't think thats bad really.. get it seized and get it back for about 190 quid with no points.. mind you i'd suprised i haven't had one of these, I drive like a muppet

BM08

i didnt read all the replys but as frs2208 said, did you pull a wheelie? yes or no

g10ens

If the incident was taken to court and the evidence was presented to a judge then the verdict would be not guilty, that is what i have an issue with.
The british justice system is supposed to be about a fair trial and a decision should be made by somebody who has studied and trained to become qualified to make that decision. If the police were to be driving round in one of their unmarked cars with video filming equipment and followed a motorcyclist "performing a prolonged wheelie" then i am sure they would take the offender through the court system as they know a conviction would be guaranteed, these section 59's are just something that is issued based on the opinion of a police officer when he knows that the correct and respected legal procedures of going through a court of law would fail to get a conviction.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Section 59s arent part of the british justice system mate, they are a way around the british justice system for coppers.

Its entirely in their hands, no right of appeal, no judge, no jury.

Its only a small thing, but some of them LOVE it, I think they believe they are judge dredd or something

fiend

iTrader: (1)

So as there is no way of appealing a Section 59, in theory, a police officer does not need to have any evidence at all as they don't need to be able to prove their reason for issuing the Section 59.

So they can give you one just because they want to or 'may' have seen you done something?

It seems like the power to issue a Section 59 can be abused by police officers very easily.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Totally correct

g10ens

Thats right, it also means that if i should happen to be "observed speeding" by a police officer who had not got his speed gun out in time to zap me and go through the correct legal procedures or if in his opinion my standard of driving falls below the satisfactory standard but his opinion wouldnt stand up in a court of law then he can issue me with another section 59 and seize the vehicle from me.

Harry.

fordpop

Fooking little hitlers flexing their muscles again, Not that they ever speed or go through red lights etc
I sent a list to the Home Secutary a few years ago of marked cars that drove through red lights, or drivers didn't wear seat belts, or talking on a phones etc when they didn't have the blues and twos on, and got a letter back saying "it is against the law to do so and I was probably wrong"
If you don't know the magic hand shake you are fooked in this life by these w4nkers with their little piece of power

Caprigirl

The police as an whole are the biggest law breakers. They get away with it ........................Because the can , Its simple

lukej

See I got pulled when I was away at Uni and boxed in by a marked and an unmarked car becuase they believed me to be causing undue stress and alarm to people when nobody was about apart from them and I wasn't even driving stupidly...

The official line was "excessive speed" and they alleged I was doing 80 in a 40. When they said this I laughed and got told it wasnt funny becuase I wouldn't pass a driving test like that.

I pointed out that the section of road I am alleged to have done this on is narrow, winding and covered in traffic islands. It is no more than a quarter mile long and as I drive a 1.3 tappet monster engined Fiesta MK5 I found this to be rather amusing as it's nigh on impossible to get that speed from that car starting from a stationary position over that distance.

I was given the option of 3 points and a fine or a Section 59 even though I denied I was speeding. They radio'd through the Section 59 but I never recieved the paperwork... Now I am lead to believe they dont have to give you any papers and that it is just on the PNC but is there any way of finding out if I actually have one on record? I am treating it like I do and driving extra cautiously to make sure they haven't the slightest reason for giving me a talking to again.

Having been spoken to by the police since when I was pulled over at a road block for random drink drive testing they mentioned nothing but I am unsure as to whether they ran checks on the car and myself at that point or not.

Cheers

Luke

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Funnily enough the cop is meant actually to 'observe you speeding' before getting his gun out. The speed detection equipment is only meant to be used to corroborate with his observation!

Back the Section 59. If you were actually popping a wheelie, I'd just think yourself lucky that you only got a 59er, and don't do it again for at least a year.

If you weren't wheelieing then get down to the cop shop and contest it.

BigChuck

if you did it, you got caught ... take the punishment, simple enough.

in court you would have to plead guilty or not guilty if you did it and were honest, you would get done, regardless of what evidence was presented.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its all a matter of the opinion of the cop who gave you it, unless he changes his mind when his senior officer asks him after you dispute it (not going to happen as would make him look stupid) then unless you have very strong evidence to the contrary, then they will totally ignore you, been there and tried that and genuinely was totally innocent, but they dont let little things like that stand in their way, no wonder everyone hates them

SiZT

I'm sure they have to send you a letter informing you that you've been given a Section 59 warning?

I was told I'd be getting one through the post earlier this year but nothing turned up so I am assuming that it was to scare me a bit. Can anyone confirm?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

They normally issue you it at the roadside.
I refused to accept my one (as I wasnt doing what he said I was in the first place) and they posted me it, I posted it back to them and they posted it back again, I posted it back again with a formal complaint in writing, they investigated (ie they asked the copper who gave me it if he was sure, he said he was, it only needs to be in their opinion no proof is needed) I contacted the council to get video evidence to proove he was talking shit but sadly the camera on that roundabout was pointing the other way at the time. I said I would prefer to go to court then where I can have my say, and not accept the warning, and was informed that because I hadnt been summonsed I didnt have that option, there is literally nothing you can do!