Cost of a 500bhp T4 Engine?
09-12-2009, 05:43 PM
#163
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I have another question. With all these high powered Cosworths (especially in road cars) how much does it effect drivability? Is certain power too much for the road? Would 400bhp be better on the road than 500bhp? Of course how the cars suspension is set up will contribute to how it feels on the road. But surely there is a limit?
Pardeep,
My 2 penneth is,,,,,, i had a 450bhp Saff with ALL the goodies on and i,m being totally honest here, yes it was abit too lively for a road car, it,s very hard to use all that power and put it down with out getting spin/backend out etc.
On the flip side my first 3dr was on a T34.48, Greys NMS live map and made a VERY punchy 360bhp/363ft/lb and was a SUPERB road car and was bloody quick too.
Also what i have now the NMS Gunship using a Stage 2 T3 with 360 thrust etc again is a great road car, Karl maps the car in away the mid-range torque is simply awesome, makes alot of stage 3 cars look over there shoulders for sure.
So, it,s your choice Pardeep but if it were me i,d go for a nice T34.48/55/63 SETUP and fingers crossed it,ll be RELOABLE enjoyable power for a longish time if built/mapped etc correctly..
09-12-2009, 05:46 PM
#165
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Pardeep,
My 2 penneth is,,,,,, i had a 450bhp Saff with ALL the goodies on and i,m being totally honest here, yes it was abit too lively for a road car, it,s very hard to use all that power and put it down with out getting spin/backend out etc.
On the flip side my first 3dr was on a T34.48, Greys NMS live map and made a VERY punchy 360bhp/363ft/lb and was a SUPERB road car and was bloody quick too.
Also what i have now the NMS Gunship using a Stage 2 T3 with 360 thrust etc again is a great road car, Karl maps the car in away the mid-range torque is simply awesome, makes alot of stage 3 cars look over there shoulders for sure.
So, it,s your choice Pardeep but if it were me i,d go for a nice T34.48/55/63 SETUP and fingers crossed it,ll be RELOABLE enjoyable power for a longish time if built/mapped etc correctly..
My 2 penneth is,,,,,, i had a 450bhp Saff with ALL the goodies on and i,m being totally honest here, yes it was abit too lively for a road car, it,s very hard to use all that power and put it down with out getting spin/backend out etc.
On the flip side my first 3dr was on a T34.48, Greys NMS live map and made a VERY punchy 360bhp/363ft/lb and was a SUPERB road car and was bloody quick too.
Also what i have now the NMS Gunship using a Stage 2 T3 with 360 thrust etc again is a great road car, Karl maps the car in away the mid-range torque is simply awesome, makes alot of stage 3 cars look over there shoulders for sure.
So, it,s your choice Pardeep but if it were me i,d go for a nice T34.48/55/63 SETUP and fingers crossed it,ll be RELOABLE enjoyable power for a longish time if built/mapped etc correctly..
09-12-2009, 05:53 PM
#167
Pardeep,
My 2 penneth is,,,,,, i had a 450bhp Saff with ALL the goodies on and i,m being totally honest here, yes it was abit too lively for a road car, it,s very hard to use all that power and put it down with out getting spin/backend out etc.
On the flip side my first 3dr was on a T34.48, Greys NMS live map and made a VERY punchy 360bhp/363ft/lb and was a SUPERB road car and was bloody quick too.
Also what i have now the NMS Gunship using a Stage 2 T3 with 360 thrust etc again is a great road car, Karl maps the car in away the mid-range torque is simply awesome, makes alot of stage 3 cars look over there shoulders for sure.
So, it,s your choice Pardeep but if it were me i,d go for a nice T34.48/55/63 SETUP and fingers crossed it,ll be RELOABLE enjoyable power for a longish time if built/mapped etc correctly..
My 2 penneth is,,,,,, i had a 450bhp Saff with ALL the goodies on and i,m being totally honest here, yes it was abit too lively for a road car, it,s very hard to use all that power and put it down with out getting spin/backend out etc.
On the flip side my first 3dr was on a T34.48, Greys NMS live map and made a VERY punchy 360bhp/363ft/lb and was a SUPERB road car and was bloody quick too.
Also what i have now the NMS Gunship using a Stage 2 T3 with 360 thrust etc again is a great road car, Karl maps the car in away the mid-range torque is simply awesome, makes alot of stage 3 cars look over there shoulders for sure.
So, it,s your choice Pardeep but if it were me i,d go for a nice T34.48/55/63 SETUP and fingers crossed it,ll be RELOABLE enjoyable power for a longish time if built/mapped etc correctly..
thats a new one, ill add that to my vocabulary
09-12-2009, 05:54 PM
#168
More like 20k once you have re engineered the whole car to be able to use it-then it will fall apart every week
It really is only a figure at the end of it,personally I would rather have a modern engine with 300bhp than an out of date one with ''500bhp''
The other issue is putting it down on to the road effectivley with a 25 year old chassis.
09-12-2009, 05:55 PM
#169
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09-12-2009, 05:59 PM
#170
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how many times has this motor suffered head gasket faliure out of curiosity?
09-12-2009, 06:21 PM
#172
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09-12-2009, 06:28 PM
#173
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My old 370Bhp saff (rear drive) was stupidly quick, and being on a T34 was punchy everywhere, but I had twin BD14's in it so it used to rev like a motorbike at the top end, and could do the 170mph clock in most places 
, obviously it is not a genuine 170, but still, even with less than 400Bhp it is VERY easy to find yourself doing silly speeds in the wrong places. Most people will tell you a rear driver is a LOT quicker than the same powered 4x4, but require a bit more care and skill in doing so....
For the road, 400Bhp is plenty, on of my favourite conversions I have been in is Mechanic28's white 3 door before he owned it, and pre mega engine, it used to run a std engine with greys and a live MSD map on a T34, and it was stupidly quick. On a standard gemoetry engine, I think a T4 on the road is actually slower in most places as 1) you have to spool it and keep it on boost, which means thrashing the car constantly, and 2) T4 power makes putting power down (talking about most unmodified 2wds here) a lot harder in the real world, you have to be SO careful about where you bring it on boost, as it WILL spin in most, if not all of the gears.
But nothing in the world feels like a 500Bhp Cossie (in my limited experience!), just make other cars feel boring and slow!
, obviously it is not a genuine 170, but still, even with less than 400Bhp it is VERY easy to find yourself doing silly speeds in the wrong places. Most people will tell you a rear driver is a LOT quicker than the same powered 4x4, but require a bit more care and skill in doing so.... For the road, 400Bhp is plenty, on of my favourite conversions I have been in is Mechanic28's white 3 door before he owned it, and pre mega engine, it used to run a std engine with greys and a live MSD map on a T34, and it was stupidly quick. On a standard gemoetry engine, I think a T4 on the road is actually slower in most places as 1) you have to spool it and keep it on boost, which means thrashing the car constantly, and 2) T4 power makes putting power down (talking about most unmodified 2wds here) a lot harder in the real world, you have to be SO careful about where you bring it on boost, as it WILL spin in most, if not all of the gears.
But nothing in the world feels like a 500Bhp Cossie (in my limited experience!), just make other cars feel boring and slow!
09-12-2009, 06:39 PM
#175
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09-12-2009, 06:51 PM
#180
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So that plan is still in the pipe works. Only reason i haven't bought another one was because the Ex didn't want me spending money that doesn't need to be spent.
But now the cuntbag is out of my life, i will buy another next year
09-12-2009, 07:07 PM
#184
None since it was released to him at the end of development by mark as finished and ready to go this time.
Only head gasket failures linked to it in some way are the old turkish block failed and it took the head gasket with it (but it doesnt have that block anymore so it really is a different engine and thats of no relevance) and when being developed on the dyno mark found the ignition limit on race fuel of the gasket but thats just what happens in development and isnt really a failure as such either.
Since this build was finished and given back to dave, its never had a gasket problem, the only "failure" its had since it was dyno'd was one of the stud seals leaked, which was thankfully very undramatic, but initially the finger was pointed that it could be a head gasket failure as the symptoms are similar, so maybe thats what is confusing you?
Only head gasket failures linked to it in some way are the old turkish block failed and it took the head gasket with it (but it doesnt have that block anymore so it really is a different engine and thats of no relevance) and when being developed on the dyno mark found the ignition limit on race fuel of the gasket but thats just what happens in development and isnt really a failure as such either.
Since this build was finished and given back to dave, its never had a gasket problem, the only "failure" its had since it was dyno'd was one of the stud seals leaked, which was thankfully very undramatic, but initially the finger was pointed that it could be a head gasket failure as the symptoms are similar, so maybe thats what is confusing you?
09-12-2009, 08:34 PM
#187
My 3 door felt fine off boost,although i would imagine if i floored it,it would be wait,wait,wait,...........Bang we off lol!but i have also got to get used to the gearbox!going to see how she handles next summer,if it scares me will put a rear beam on her!
Last edited by mechanic28; 09-12-2009 at 08:41 PM.
09-12-2009, 09:16 PM
#200
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5500 rpm to 7800 rpm was where it was at in my old t4 saph after stu mapped it to 2.2 bar. was relentless up in those revs. not 500 bhp i know but not far of peak power and the most achieveable without selling some organs