dojj

iTrader: (3)

wow!
hold the front page!
"dojj agree's with porkie" shocker!!

from what i've seen, especially in the music industry, it's who you know rather than what you know that gets you into the public eye, and then you get labeled as "talent"
the lucky ones get the breaks and then get snapped up by the big names
apparently beyonce made $87 million last year, so it's not as if she's not broken into the big time, but the amount of push she'd got has been unreal
on the other hand, you look at jayz and he lets his reputation do the work for him and beyonce spazzes out and calls it "dancing" while little leprechauns in the shape of kanye to big her up and pump up her ego
while i don't really listen to the sort of music sobo puts out, i have immense respect for her being some middle aged bearded lady who's gone up and sung her heart out

on the flip side, i listen to music i like and haven't listend to "the chart show" for years and years so couldn't possibly comment on who was top of the pops now or not, so in the next 10 years or so my kids won't think i'm cool and "down with it"

Pardeep

You mean gone up and Mimed her heart out. You honestly believe she can dance around and sing the song without her gasping for air and not missing a word over the mic?

Rod-Tarry

Their hair would puncture my tyres . You must remember as Musicians we are in the minority & will never agree with the masses cos we look/listen for different things & realise whats difficult to play & whats not. We watch the cord formations while most are looking at the singers crotch .

G950KDT

iTrader: (2)

i'll stfu then for now dojj, but with a paper bag over it and gaffer tape on the mouth, u would

Pardeep

LOL

No wonder i'm a massive fan of Violinist Nicolo Paganini's 24 Caprices LOL

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

I was being ironic.

I am a HUGE Beyonce fan.

Retro Al

iTrader: (1)

Imo beyonce is the most over hyped bint in music, cant bloody stand her
But each to there own,only time will tell who will be the winner

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

So if Beyonce is over-hyped, who IS a talented musician in your opinion??!!

Rod-Tarry

Prefer 'Red house' by Hendrix myself , still remember being in a rehearsal in 67 when that was played just after its release. Single handed he pushed the art of rock guitar playing in a new direction.
Still today its Jedward thats the way forward . I know im a grumpy old man yearning for the old days whats your excuse .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Good to see a happy ending to this

fiend

iTrader: (1)

You seriously believe that?

How much do Metallica/Slayer/Megadeth/Iron Maiden etc charge for tickets and merch, atleast Ł20+ for each? Why do they charge so much, if they aren't greedy for money?

Pardeep

How can you call Beyonce a Musician? She's a Singer and that its. Doesn't play a Instrument so she's not a Musician.

However Ryuichi Sakamoto is prob one of the best Musicians i've ever heard!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btyhpyJTyXg

Pardeep

We're not talking about Concerts and Merch are we. We're talking about bands being whores for the public to make cash. Seeing as albums are downloaded and the bands now makes money from Touring i'm happy to pay Ł20 to see a legendary band.

At the end of the day they are working for it and thats their job. They are MUSICIANS!!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The moment ANY band signs to a record label they start to make compromises in the name of cash, how big a compromise varies, but ultimately economics always come into it, some bands start their own label to give them more control but invariabley will then still find their own financial pressures upon themselves.

Its NEVER 100% about the music IMHO, cash always comes into it.

With X factor type "stars" though, obviously they are just puppets to the record company and not even in control of what they sing, let alone writing it themself.

Pardeep

Red House is awesome fun to play.

My excuse? Don't have one. But my grey hairs are showing at 23

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Look, the world isn't going to be converted to grunge/metal. It's a niche genre, deal with it.

Beyonce is as talented as SINGER as any one artist you can name, whether it be a guitarist, drummer, singer, whatever.

It just so happens that about 5000% more people would rather listen to her, whether you want to call her a musician or a singer, than they would listen to the stuff you generally like.

That Chinky dude playing the piano is OK, nothing fancy IMO. I think Vanessa Mae is better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=263l_Gk2sqc (quick search).

Alan_D

Why not? The money is a by product of what they do, so they might as well enjoy it.

Have you seen any of the documentary footage from the making of Metallica's 'Black Album'. The thing with bands like that is they do their best to write and record the best music they can, hoping people will like it. They don't just think up some silly fucking fad to brainwash tweenies with for a week or 2 to sell some singles. That is what people are 'campaigning' against.

Having said that, I'll listen to anything now(polar opposite of the way I was while doing a music degree), and there's all kinds of different music out there for the different moods you might be in. But it's a fact that artists who write their own stuff and make music because they want people to appreciate it, are much more respected.

Also, I really don't think Beyonce should be compared to the likes of Simon Cowell's 2 minute acts. She is very talented.

Pardeep

Sorry mate but after your posts on this thread i can honestly say you just listen to whatevers on the charts without any knowledge of whats actually out there.

Vanessa Mae is good but she isn't all that amazing.

Better Violinists out there and she's famous for bringing a style of violin mixed with great Musical scores and that alone i have to give her major respect for.

Still prefer this violinist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfvNQkjloZM

RichardPON

What's up Pardeep?

You sound bitter? Maybe you're just pissed that your "musical career" is comparable to someone doing the pub circuit.

Let me guess - you'd never do a talent show as "that would be selling out"?

Rick

Still PMSL C?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Ke?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

your attitude at the start of this post was laughing at the campaign and you said it wouldnt be successful and that the x factor fella would still get number one

Rick

thread title mate...

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

That is bollocks, I have a diverse taste in music, far more diverse than yours it would seem. I don't have to pretend to only like the hardcore ends of the spectrum. I can listen to all sorts.

What I don't get is the hatred for the X-Factor. What have these kids done wrong? There are far less deserving 'singers' 'musicians' 'footballers' etc etc out there with 'careers' than these guys that actually do deserve a break. OK, so Cowell is in it for the money, but fuck me he must be doing something right. Apparently 15 years ago he was practically homeless with not a bean to his name?

There are lots of things out there that are a mugs game, it's all comparable. The National Lottery, theres one. OK, so you could win, but fucking hell, the odds are VERY VERY slight, but still people PLOUGH money into it. Thats an obvious money making scam. Police speed camera's, theres another. But Leona Lewis CAN sing, Beyonce CAN sing, Cliff Richard CAN sing (I fucking hate the guy, but he clearly can sing), Stevie Wonder CAN play the Piano, Slash CAN play the guitar, Mike Patton CAN sing etc etc etc.

RichardPON

Just when you were doing so well Christian!

It's not a scam.

Its a gamble, with complete transparency.

How is that a scam?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

To be fair mate, if only someone had started a similar high-level protest in favour of Joe McElderry, he WOULD have won it. Just like if it had been judged in the merit of the people that CHOSE to go out and buy the single, he would have won it and IMO thats got very little to do with Cowell, or his attitude.

This protest proved ONE thing and ONE thing only. There are alot of people on Facebook and naturally with any networking site, things spread like wildfire and everyone just jumped on the bandwagon, not necessarily because they like RATM, just because they wanted to be rebels. Wooosh. Out of all those that bought the single, I bet 3/4 of them did it for that reason and theres my justification for saying that it was a pathetic and pointless thing to do.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Surely it can be called a scam when the main focus of it is to make money in a disproportionate manner. Whoever it is that owns the Lottery these days (Camelot??) aren't doing it because they want to make people into millionaires, they are doing it for their financial gain. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a business making money, but when the odds of winning are SO slight. Its not like betting at a bookies or putting it in a fruit machine. We are talking 1 in 47,000,000 or something like that?

Maybe 'scam' was the wrong word? Along the right lines though.

RichardPON

Not a scam at all.

Your chances of winning are offset by the fact the entry cost is minimal and reward is equally disproportionate.

Its about as clean a gamble as possible! You aren't duping anyone when the facts are made perfectly clear prior to entry.

Pardeep

SLASH is overrated. Sloppy playing and just a simple Pentatonic Wank licks over and over. Sorry it just has to be said. Even Slash's guitar lessons were a joke for Total Guitar Magazine.

Beyonce can SING but i hate the fact they use Protools/Autotune on her voice when she sings live to make her Pitch Perfect when she isn't.

Your Music taste being more diverse than mine? Mate I can name artists you would never be caught dead listening to cos its 'Not Chart Material'. I listen to alot of music as i'm a session player so my musical knowledge has to be up to scratch.

The problem with X-Factor is that its limiting what gets onto our chart. When was the last time you saw a Blues, Jazz, Instrumental Artist at the top? The Official UK Chart is nothing but a Pop chart when its supposed to be for ALL Genres of Music.

2008 September, Metallica's Death Magnetic was the ONLY metal album to go to number 1 for the whole year. Not saying its just metal. There is alot of good Dubstep, DnB, Instrumental etc out there that deserve to be on the Charts. But the problem is that X-Factor limits all of that and these other artists don't get any exposure in the UK because of it. Thats the problem with it.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

But does it make it OK that there are speed camera's behind trees and signs because they put signs on every stretch of road to suggest that there could be cameras present?

You don't see the Lottery adverts telling you to roll up and take your 1 in 47,000,000 chance of winning. Fewer people do it these days because even though it's only a quid a line, it's barely worth the effort. In all the years I did it, I had far better luck on the scratch-cards, but even then, I had a MUCH better spend/win ratio on fruit machines (not that I play those very often) and they have to print on the machine what the return ratio is.

The original point is that all those people that tuned in to watch the X-Factor CHOSE to do so. Love it or hate it, they made the choice. They didn't do it because tens of thousands of people on Facebook had told them to do it. Then when Joe won, half a million people CHOSE to go out and buy the single. They didn't do it because a load of people on Facebook told them to either. Whats so wrong about that? Just because they were given a lucky break by a TV talent show. They still have to fight through fairly tall odds themselves when you consider how many people originally apply.

The other point I made is that at any point in the series, when a 'proper' artist was on, I always felt that their performance was sloppy and over-rated. God knows, most of them MIMED! Now thats more wrong if you ask me.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think Joe had far more publicity than he deserved already, just like every other X factor winner gets.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

No, you're wrong. The UK Chart is a MAJORITY VOTE chart. Nobody said that a rock/grunge/DnB/Dubstep act couldn't get to the top, it's just that not a great enough proportion of the population are buying the records. Why is that? It's because when you do something off the line a little, you limit your audience. A bit like buying a fluorescent yellow car. Great idea at the time, but when it comes to selling it, you VERY much limit the amount of people that will be interested in it.

If Rage Against The Machine sang a nice ballad and people liked it, it could get to the top, but songs with lyrics like 'fuck you, I won't do what you tell me' aren't going to appeal to the MAJORITY. When all is said and done, is topping the UK chart really what they strive after anyway? I very much doubt it.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

I think you're all taking the Joe thing out of context, I don't fly a flag for Joe. I think he is a good singer, not the best the competition has turned out, but a worthy winner. Lucie Jones was the winner IMO, but what makes her any different from, say, Alanis Morrisette or some other artist that is successful on account of their singing? What I don't understand is why the vendetta against singers who find success this way? It's lucky for them. OK, so they bypass alot of the pub-singing/gigs etc that other artists and bands have to go through, but big deal.

Pardeep

Wow you really don't know much about music business do you. The charts have been getting raped by the singers own record companies. Majority of Sales for number 1's are bought by the record company to secure the number 1 placement. Its not so much the Public Vote but the Highest Bidder between record labels.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

So in that case, why don't you just disregard it? Why is it so important to you and all the other Facebook campaign 'Puppets'?

Surely if the bands/artists you are concerned about are selling records, regardless of their chart position, that's all they want, isn't it?

It's Czech Mate

IMO Rage have got the number one with the same methods as the Xfactor did.

Marketing

Be it through prime time tv or the internet......

IMO the whol point of the Facebook campaign wasnt to spoil Simon Cowells party or spoil Joe's dream ( after all it was started before anyone knew the winner ) it was to prove that no matter what the content of the actual record the Christmas No1 is dictated by by marketing.

After all, good as RATM (were)are, its hardly a song that has any connection with Christmas

Its not because Rage are better, or Jo is worse its to prove a point that the chart is heavily influenced by marketing and its not 100% about content.

It wont kill Joe's career and it probably wont reignite RATM's.

I'm glad its happened and I hope that folk actually buy what they like next year and its something actually good

Pardeep

No its more the fact that stupid comments from these big time TV hosts that put the young generation down. Cheryl Cole went on to say 'he's just a 18 year old who wants to sing'. What about all the 18 year olds that just want to play guitar, pianos, bass for the rest of their lives.

Thats what bothers me. It has to stop cos at this rate its just making Musicians feel like they are worthless and its not true.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Most musicians are worthless, there is an enormous glut of fairly good muscians that the world just doesnt need.
so who cares if 90% of them slit their wrists, we'd still have more than we need.

Pardeep

How are they going to sell when they don't even make it on the charts? What do you think the charts are there for? Its to promote the music and to say to the public 'Check this out, its great'