Tank Mike

As some of you may or may not know i do puma conversions for a living.

I normally use a supplier from Birmingham and I have never had any issues with him, and anything that has gone tits up, he’s always broken his back to help me out

Anyway..I had some ring me up and ask for a conversion. So I rung my Birmingham supplier and asked for an engine kit. Sadly he didn't have any engines in stock so I rung the customer and explained my normal supplier didn't have any engines. He asked if I could get any from anyone else as his engine had totally gone and needed it done asap for work.

So I looked on the old eBay and found a "specialist" puma dismantler out Epsom way. I gave him a call and explained I needed a puma conversion kit off him. He came up with a price £150 more expensive than Birmingham supplier witch I was happy to pay as Epsom is local to me.

I called my customer to tell him to get his car recovered to my workshop as I have an engine for him.

I went to Epson to pick up the "conversion kit" and there was a puma engine sitting on the floor with no manifolds on it. He told me that was it! When I explained I had asked for a conversion kit he then charged me an extra £150 for all the other bits but I didn't have an inlet manifold to sell me. He told me the engine was mint, done 50k and he'd driven the car 300 miles to his yard before breaking it. I decided to pay it as the customers car was already in bits in my workshop.

A little pissed about the lack of inlet manifold and the extra cost of the kit I went back to the workshop and fitted it, an d tracked down another inlet manifold at an extra £40.

When everything was fitted the car refused to start. I traced the problem to a busted ecu, he had also supplied the wrong air box and maf sensor. I took the bits back and he supplied the correct parts no fuss.

I fitted these bits and the car started and ran fine. I took the car out on road test and the clutch slipped something chronic! Good for something that was mint and test driven 300miles or so he claimed. So I had to put the car back in the workshop and fit a new clutch which was an extra £120 even though he told me the clutch was mint.

I decided to just swallow the clutch failure and gave the customers car back. He has had the car back 5 weeks and I received a phone call yesterday to say the car had to be recovered as the engine had blown up.

So today I drove from Staines to Kent to inspect the car. The oil is still on the max mark, the coolant is still at a perfect level but when you start the car the engine rattles and you can't see the road behind you for the blue smoke. As you can imagine the customer is really really fucked off.

So I call the Epsom guy back who told me 400miles is more than expectable for a second hand engine and as it was fine when he sold it, so it’s not his problem and he was not going to do anything about it.

So to top this off I’ve tried to help someone out by getting their car done quickly. I’ve had to swallow loads of extra expenses to get the car right for the customer. And now the engines blown up it looks like I’ve got to swallow another journey to Kent, the cost of another puma engine and a day’s labour!

I’m pissed off, and I expect there’s nothing i can do about it!!

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Feel very sorry for you mate.

Steve

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

what puma engine do you need? and what exactly do you mean by conversions?

personally i dont think you will have alot of hope after 400 miles; how was the owner driving the car? if he was ranting the bollocks off it then maybe that's why its given up the ghost?

Tank Mike

Normal 1.7 puma engine.

The kits contain

-1.7 VCT Engine
-Gearbox
-Engine sensors
-Starter Motor
-Alternator
-Engine bay wiring loom
-ECU (with key)
-Air box and pipe
-Throttle cable
-Engine mount
-Driveshaft’s
-Cat
-Water hoses

They go into fiesta MK4and 5

Hes a middle aged guy and i can honnestly say id be very suprised if it his driving thats killed it.

I've had loads of them and providing there fitted correctly there bullet proof!

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

tricky one; but after 400 miles i'm not sure you'll get much done about it - most breakers wont warrant anything; let alone after 400 miles

i assume its bottom end that's given up? can you not get a 2nd hand bottom end from somewhere?

matts1

Sorry to say that after 5 weeks, there really is little come back I would think. Lesson learnt is stick to those you know and dont be rushed by a customer at the risk of it going belly up.

The customer should really be taking it a bit easy on you if you explained the situation, but they will still be wanting it sorted, so looks like you are out of pocket.

puddy

No.1 rule in my book when fitting 'used' parts for a customer, is they

supply them themselves, then you ain't liable if the part lets go.

Sounds like you are just too nice to be in the motor trade game

Good luck , puddy

BIG.GEOFF.H

they are a very tempremental bottom end ive had a few lads in my garage low mileage engines going so soon. the problem is with fitting second hand engines from scrapers its hard to put a warrenty on it due to not knowing the full true history and the driving style of the new owner of the engine. ive had my fingers burnt fitting second hand engines from breakers yards and do not supply them any more, i always say you get the engine and ill fit it for you. if it turns out its fooked then its not your problem.

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

how long do you normally warrant a engine you supply a customer from your brum fella???

my guess is you have never had one chuck its hand in and this has come as a surprise.

dealers i have worked for that supply their own warrenty on good cars make enough profit to put right any cock ups.

i see cheap pumas down the auctions regularly and my mate who does bodywork reckons the front end parts are very dear,he paid 70 quid for a headlamp a ton for a bonnet and 75 quid for a bumper and was surprised the stuff costs so much when a y reger with a crispy wheelarch and a few blemishes is a 1100 quids worth these days.

Tank Mike

I give a 3 month warrentte on parts bar the cambelt and clutch.

I've never had one go wrong yet and I must of done over 40 convertions now so yer im pritty suprised.

I know there a fragile engine if overheated or run low on oil but the oils golden and on the max and the coolent is as fresh as i put it in and on the max.

I've just got to swallow it, and maybe do something differnent in the future

wirralphil

Your oil maybe golden but what about the previous service?

Puma's are a Birds car, most women see a service as less hair work or shoes etc.

Take it as a bite in the arse, use who you know. If need be lose the custom. If you have to change suppliers then research them.

A local scappys i use i only get parts which are std ie handles, windows etc.

Tank Mike

Sadly the joy of a puma convertion is its cheap relable power/fun

if you start buying brand new engine, looms and ecus

its bloody exprensive power lol

nealo

I Feel sorry for you mate because you have obviously bent over backwards to sort this out for the customer - i only wish there was more people like you in the world willing to get the job done!!!!

can i ask how much a complete conversion is mate and what kind of power they produce (PM me if you want fella cheers)

wirralphil

Can see your point their, maybe in future check some other places, if the needs be then wait for your regular fella.

If you have good feed back of other 1.7 owners then you might be able to make them wait (ok maybe only if this is a side line not a main income)

Tank Mike

Its part of my main income but after this little gem its going to cost me double what the job was worth to begin with now.

Maybe in future I will supply everything bar the engine itself if i can't get one off my normal guy.

Everyone else i've done one for has been over the moon with the quality of the work and parts used,

I've done them for good mates who I know give there car death on the road and track and they have been spot on!

stuboy

cant u rebuild the lump back up and regain some loss's??

wirralphil

It's an SE engine, sometimes a rebuild on these costs alot more than a replacement.

Coldo

Out of interest, what would it cost to put one in a mk5 zetec s and what power are the 1.7's?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dont answer that Mike, its a trick, you would be trading on here if you answered



Sorry to hear about the engine, it leaves a really nasty taste when people do you over and you know that they done so intentionally as they have lied to you, its one thing swallowing the cost when its an honest mistake, but blatantly he hadnt really driven it 300 miles back if the clutch was in that state.

As per the replies above though, you havent got a leg to stand on im sure.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

mmmm puma engines are usually good for well over 100k even if ragged to death.

The main killer is stupid bints who dont check oil and the odd early block with dodgy nikasil liners.

I think its fair to say you were sold a lemon!! Theres no way he didnt notice the slipping clutch!! probably fair to say it was on its way out when he sold it to you.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

You cant expect the fella who suplied the engine to anything mate as the engine was fine when you fitted it , you must have thought it was ok or you wouldnt have given it back to the customer

I would be questioning the way your customer has trated it

Plus he is having this engine fitted as an upgrade i would quess so he wants more pwoer , this would mean to me he wants to go faster , lol i feel this is the answer to the problem

If the engine run well when you gave it to the customer then IMO you have done your bit

brad

my thoughts exactly

dojj

iTrader: (3)

been shafted mate

Tank Mike

Would you not be slighly cheesed if you payed £1??? to have your fiesta converted to puma power and it lasted 400mile?

it someone had done that to me i would be spiting fethers

mac456

i would be lol!

i guess regardless of him ragging it, it should of lasted over 400miles.


unlucky though mate, maybe next time be abit more carefull

M K

iTrader: (9)

but in your defence mate, how can you warrant a second hand engine you know nothing about? especially after 400 miles of potentially hard use, i know you want to help the customer out which is great but your asking to be bit in the arse sooner or later,

most people have been over the moon you say so this is not a common thing so state a mileage limit on warrenty as engines are second hand, or customer to supply there own

Tank Mike

Yer it sickens me to say that I think in future I'm going to have to play the blame shift game. I've been bitten with a couple of other thing. It does Sadden me though! I take great pride in my work and I do take it very seriously when I have done a job for someone is not happy or has issues with what I have done for them.

I supose from now on if customers want 2nd hand parts I'm gunna have to be difficault and tell them to get them themselfs witch I feel is letting down a good service

I dare say I'll never find anyone who wants a puma convertion with brand new bits lol

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i would edit the cost a few posts up mate, otherwise you may fall foul of the "trading" rules

M K

iTrader: (9)

they don't have to source the parts themselves mike, you can still keep your service at its best by sourcing the engines for the customer but you just have to state that no warranty is implied or given on the engine itself as it is a second hand unit and mileage and condition can not be garenteed, and give the customer the option to source there own if preferred, you can still warrant the rest of the parts and coversion work carried out by you,

don't let it dis hearten you mate, your services seem good just unfair to yourself if the worst happens

Chip

iTrader: (3)

There is no doubt his service is good, those fecking puma'd fiestas are everywhere in this neck of the woods whenever we go out for a pint locally some random person or other nearly always comes up to him to say that there car is still going strong etc

Personally I reckon if he has bought 40 secondhand engines and its the first one that has gone wrong, he's been fucking lucky!
I'd be over the moon with those odds.


Maybe tell the customer there is no warranty on the engine itself as its bought secondhand, but that you will warranty it for an extra 100 quid, that way its up to people if they want to take a gamble or pay for the warranty, and then it will cover your costs?

AlexF

if I'd paid for a NEW engine I would be pissed...

but this is OLD parts - so thats the risk you take!

Alex

Tank Mike

done cheers mate, This is defo not an advertising thread. I just needed to explaine my rage somewhere

these are both good ideas i'll have to look in them. I don't fancey getting shafted again

saph4be

only read half off it but it's a second hand engine mate i all ways tell people if i am supplying a second hand lump there is no warrenty at end off day any thing second hand you pay your money you take your chance

OldDan

Going to have to swallow it I think. Unfortunately that's the luck of the draw

dojj

iTrader: (3)

at least he's local, and if the engine in the fiesta does go bang, i know he's goign to have a few laying about the place to refit ini

the 1.25 lumps, not a big scary 1.7 that will ruin the fuel economny on the school run for the mrs

pacwest

I put engines in for people before. I explicitly explain that unless the motor falls off that day the warranty is 30 seconds or 30 feet, whichever comes first.

Installing second hand engines is warranty free zone. Your "customer" should have known that as well.

The guy you bought the stuff from was a bit high on price and didn't know his parts too well. Seems he might have known about the clutch, that's the only part you can be pissed about with him sadly.

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

Mike you seem a caring mechanic who values good customers,why not get your regular breakers number and give it to your customers who need parts ??

the scrap yards i use give 7 days warrenty on parts correctly supplied,so if you pop in a puma donkey in a feesta and it blows inside the 7 days your covered to take it back and so would the customer it would just be you having to do the job twice but if you factor in a margin on all your future jobs for cock ups if you do have one you have taken care of that happening if you get me

i would explain to your customers that its a 7 day warrenty on secondhand donkeys and get them to agree in writing,if you buy them that way you can sell them that way imo.

pacwest

Cozz is right. Protect your business and your reputation by spelling out the perils of second hand motors coupled with an offer to have a discount on the labour to replace a bad motor within six months.

Also I'd out the bad supplier. The clutch issue warrants it.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

what are them bints saying to each other in your pic mate?

can't read the writing as it's too small

Pob

Longest warranty that i've ever been given on a second hand engine is 48 hours. He said, its enough time to fit the engine-and if its fooked I'll replace it-if it runs. Fair do's.

I think one mishap out of 40 is still pretty good. Just in future, tell customers the engine is used, and you can't guantee it once its driven away. OR, like you said, they source their own engine/box and ecu.