Mr Sam

good so you could tow a LIGHT car on an A frame with a car capeable of towing it as long as the all in weight does not exceed 3500kgs


and anyone with just a B should not be driving anything over 3500kg's???


OR


im sure with tractors you can tow any single axeled un braked trailer (about a 3.5 ton one) so sell the scooby in favor of a fastrac

muzzathemonster

iTrader: (1)

should of gone to specsavers

muzzathemonster

iTrader: (1)

leave the tractor in the shed with the sheep confusin enough pullin with a car/landrover

boothy

iTrader: (14)

You tell him Andy

BlairM

I don't know if an A frame comes under these rules as the back wheels of the car would still be on the ground, so not a trailer, obviously.

Mr Sam

thats a dolly though is it not?

A frame is when all 4 wheels of the car are on the ground, does the car then become the trailer so then all you need do is make sure the cars under 750kg's

Gav Diamond

iTrader: (6)

The weights are all done on unladen vehicles (so weight on chassis tag) so my understanding is that it does not matter if you have more people in.

paz_S2

this confused the fuk outta me about 12 months ago.
basically, look on the back of your licence, no picture of a trailer, no tow a trailer, picture of a little trailer, i think you can tow up to a train weight of 3500kg.
so i did my test, changed my insurance, no worries!

paz_S2

sorry, that part could be incorrect.

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Yeh i posted up a similar thread about a year ago.

Its a fucking joke, i phones DVLA, the local traffic police and vosa and no one could give me a proper answer.

And as for all the mumbo jumbo wording. why they dont just state it properly fact buy fact instead of putting it in one stupid long centence.

Yeh you wrong on the 3500Kg. If you have B+E its then to do with the towing capacity of the towing vehicle.

Eg my landrover weighs 2.2 tons, and its max towing capacity is 3.5 tons (only 4x4 which is plated to do so)

so with B+E I can weigh in legally at for example 4.3 tons (the landrover 2.2 having to weigh more than the trailer 2.1)

But i could also load my truck up to a mam of 3.5, and still legally tow a trailer weighing say 3400. making the total 6.9 tons!!


Basically if you pass before 1996 you can tow what ever (with in the tow cars limits)

If you pass after 1997 you need to take a test.

Anyone with any sence will know an average unladen trailer weighs around 500-750kg.

So basically all you can do is tow an empty trailer

Take the test and then your sorted.

The law came in in 97 and police gave a sort of 10 year grace peroid. the last 2 years they are now cracking down on this sort of thing.

IMHO with in a few years we will be like most of europe, where the trailer has to have its own insurance and also its own MOT test.

bj928

looking at towing weights an escort can tow 1200kg, take no notice of the weight of the towing vehicle just find the towing weight, most cars can legally tow more that their kerb weight, the 750kg rule is so companys mainly can tow plant about without problem, its also is the max weight that anyone or anything can tow if the trailer has no brakes, a lot of people will say you can only tow upto the same weight or 85% of the car your driving to tow with, thats complete bollox and a myth that sheep believe because they were told down the pub, i know a mondeo will tow legally 1800kg, and thats about 500kg more that a mondeo weighs, also, most landrovers can tow 3500kgs on a car licence, as you past your test after 97 you will need to take a test to tow a car on a trailer, but this will then let you tow trailers upto 3500kg, any trailer over 3500kg will have air brakes anyway so would be behind a truck. the weight of the tow car and the trailer with whatever is on the trailer can go upto 4250kg (thats 3500 on normal car licence + 750kg trailer )without a problem as long as its for private use, i.e. your towing your own track car to a track, if your outfit goesover the 4250kg your would need the old 7500kg licence that older people got automaticly, but you would have to take a test for. it is complicated but it is safe to say you need to take a test as your young, although having seen some people towing caravans and trailers down the tip, i think a lot of older people need to take a test more than then just the young.

STbash

Just to be a twat -

i passed me test in 2000 and can drive with a trailor on the back (any size) but never did a B+E test

Northants Ford Fan

your wrong on that mate having your car fully loaded does make a difference to what you can tow as it effects the gross train weight of the tow vehicle and trailer, eg if your gtw is say 3000kg your car weights 1200kg empty fill it with kit weighing say another 400kg which includes fuel passengers ect you can only legaly tow a trailer upto 1400kg where as if the to vehicle was empty you could tow upto 1800kg.

Also unless you have a 7500kg entiletment on your licence you cant tow over 3500kg, even if you vehicle can tow more.

Northants Ford Fan

where did you take your test mate ?

STbash

Defence school of transport - leconsfield

Crowder

This mega confused me. I'm 24 and i have not done the test. I tow my jetski to the beach and back and the petrol station and back (about 2mile round trip). I was under the assumption that i was being naughty and this wasnt allowed.

So am i allowed to tow? i'd say all in the ski and trailer weigh around 400kgs.??

Cheers Paul.

Northants Ford Fan

guessed a mod licence

STbash

yah did car then straight onto class 2/1 HGV and ADR.. when you pass class 1 HGV you get B+E by right.. makes sense really as if i can drive an artic with a 150 tonnes of tank transporting artic sized trailor on the back a 3tonne jobbie on the back of a van is Simples

so tow a trailor on a car even though not actually done a test for it

SillyFezzaMk1

iTrader: (1)

check this link, apparently there might be a way in which you can do it.

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/driving_licences.htm
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/vehicle_categories.htm

Using a category B vehicle (normal car), keeping the total weight below 3.5 tonnes & the total towing weight not more than the towing vehicle.

Basically if this site is right you can tow as long as the trailer and track car do not weigh more than your towing car & the total doesnt add up to more than 3.5 tonnes.

HTH Dan

BlairM

If thats the weight it'll be fine. Even a car like a Mk6 Fiesta is rated to tow 750kg braked.

24vcossiemat

I use a set of a bars regular, the problem is you are supposed to only tow upto 750kg with them because its classed as a trailer as the a bars are fixed to it, and over 750kg it has to be a braked trailer, it is quite complicated to get the car on the bars to brake. so i never bother and have towed 1000's of miles with them. it is all down to whether you look right if the law see's you, you must have lights on the towed car and I never exceed 50mph when towing, the law apparently says you must not exceed 40 mph with a bars though. flying down the motorway at 70 with a car on 'a bars' is asking for trouble. also what vehicle your towing with them has to be as legal as a trailer, good tyres and reasonably road legal, but it does not have to have mot, tax or insurance.

24vcossiemat

but you still go via what your licence says, ie if you can only tow 750kg then thats all you can tow, but people tow bloody great caravans without ever knowing the weight. pre 97 licences do contradict therselves, i worked for a recovery firm and used to tow cars on a trailer and I only have a 750kg licence for trailer. one of our drivers got stopped with a car on trailer behind the 7.5 tonne recovery truck by vosa and he had a pre 97 licence, the trailer and car were well over 750kg but vosa weren't interested

fraser9764

iTrader: (3)

wrong, it still has wheels on the floor, threrefore must be taxed MOTed and insured
there is so much bullshit in this thread its untrue,
its been covered a million times before, use the search button, Lee Ivats thread was about the best.

mcst

Agreed!!!! DVLA don't make it easy to get an answer but hearsay doesn't help.

I passed my test after '97.
We can tow up to 750kgs which is the limit for an unbraked trailer too. Above this can be towed but must not exceed a train weight of 3500kgs or the MAM of the towing vehicle and the trailer must be braked. The weights are based on GVW not KERB WEIGHT this includes the driver fuel and luggage etc...
My car can only tow 350kg unbraked and 1300kg braked so i would never exceed these weights as i'm not about to try and tow 1300kg with a little 1300 Jimny!

I looked into this twice now as i wanted to trailer an SJ and later a track car. I would have taken the test if i needed to but binned the idea off as i couldn't afford something beefy enough to tow a good weight at the time. Just because a 2L Mondeo CAN tow the weight doesn't mean it SHOULD. imho

More detail here: http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=41970

VOSA are very sharp on towing and weights at the minute. These are the people to worry about not necessarily the old bill!

See down the page here for info on A-framing.
http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm

kosman

you could probably get away with it but a copper or worse still vosa could drag you to a weighbridge then your fucked

scoobypete

so as long as my scoob can tow the escort and my escort is 750kg or under and the combined weight is under 3500kg im legal to tow

STbash

it is a complete faff around, especially when you havr to go into axle weights etc..

should be simple. that has 1 axle, you can tow it, that has 2 axles, you need a license to tow it or simply pass a test before you can tow anything

Dan1281

thats quite interesting, say i had a transit pickup that weighed 2 ton then i could pull 1.5 tone behind me on my licence? i passed in 2004, it says i have a b licence on my photocard

mcst

Not quite. For what you want ignore the 750kgs. Provided your scooby can tow the weight of the escort and trailer combined and you are within the Maximum Authorised Mass/Train weight of your car (see your handbook) you'll be legal. Most scoobies have a tow limit of 1200,1500,1600kgs. (http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1)
Bear in mind what i said earlier that the MAM is based on GVW not Kerb weight. If you've got a load of stuff in the car including you and a full tank this could tip you over the MAM.

Thats my interpretation of it too, again as long as the MAM for the vehicle isn't exceeded.

I've heard of people being done in non fault accidents for being overloaded by VOSA. They had a big sting at Hickstead a few weeks back and were hammering the horse boxes and traders for exceeding weights too.

STbash

axle/kerb weights is one of those unlucky things as VOSA will bum you dry for being over and unless you have a weigh bridge you dont really have any way of knowing for sure..

24vcossiemat

you obviously know nothing of the law. when the car is attached to a bars it is classed as a trailer therefore comes under trailer rules you muppet. the tow car has to have tax mot insurance but not the car being towed. so long as the tyres are legal and theres no jagged edges etc then its fine. the car is not being driven, its being towed, if a driver was in the drivers seat of that car and steering it, which is not the case with a bars then it is fine. blimey so many people don't know the law on here. I know i'm breaking the law by towing over 750kgs but not in any other way. if the car was being tow'd by a long bar then it would have to have tax insurance and mot as there would be a driver steering it.

alistairolsen

Wrong, the landrover is 1600 empty, the fiesta and trailer at less than 1600 is ok, but the mam of a landrover is about 2500, so the mam of the tow vehicle and tralier would exceed 3500 and hence be illegal.

What you need is a heavy car with a low MAM, so anything commercial is out, something like an old granada which would be 1400kg or so, with a 2 tonne MAM would allow you to tow a trailer with a 1400kg MAM and have a total MAM or 3400.

Also, afaik dollys and a frames are legal only for recovery to the nearest safe place unless they are the new ones used with campervans. These require extensive vehicle modification and link into the braking circuit.

24vcossiemat

your full of shit ya twat, tell me my reply is bullshit, your a fucking know it all. i know for a fact the car being tow'd on a bars does not need mot or tax. I know this because a chap that works for vosa told me this, so shove it up your ass, know it all. next time ya start calling true facts bullshit remember not to press submit and delete it cus I dont take kindly when I know something is fact. .

dhutch

Exactly. So actaully, its almost supprising what you CAN tow with a CatB ticket.

Im 22 and in a simular possition to the op, in that i have a car i want to tow. For me its a 540kg kitcar (ford running gear, hence being on here) so that helps, but i tow it behind a pug306 in a DIY built 13ft covered trailer.

The pugs curb weight is around 1200kg, with a capacity to tow 1200kg.
The trailers unlaiden weight is 580kg, and the kitcar is 540 as above.
So the combined weight of the trailer is 1120kg, plated my me at 1200kg.
Hence the MAM of the trailer doesnt exceed what the car can tow, and even with the car laiden to its limit (about 2000kg of the top of my head) im under 3600 max train weight. Win!

The irony being that if i towed it with the family mpv, which would be much more stable and reasonalble looking load, i would be over 3500, and it would be illiegal.
Ditto if exactly the same trailer was plated at 2500kg MAM (which most BJT/IforWilliams will be) i would also be illeigal.

Also, the letter of the law i believe is that if the trailer is unplated, for a general purpose or car transport trailer, they will generate a MAM as being three times that of the unlaiden wieght. So 580*3 would be 1740 which would also be more than i can tow.

*Disclaimer to that being that i am not an authory on the above, simply have done the best i can to understand and gain confrimation of what i can and cant do, such that i can play the game and tow my car legally with the leicence i have.

I did also look into geting a trailer ticket to give me B+E and did get it down from £5-600 for 2/2.5 days to around £300 for a one day session with test at end after talking to the bloke and convinsing him i could actaully tow/reverse/manouver/etc. But its still a whole day, a lot of money, and a long drive down to the nearest place offering it.

Daniel

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Why thank you

And your right, a lot of BULLSHIT in this thread.

Ive contacted VOSA, DVLA and the Traffic Police, and NOT ONE PERSON can actually give me a proper answer.

THey all refer the the fucking dval twat bollocks "daily times"/solicitor worded definition, which unless you have a law or english degree is impossible to decipher.


THIS shite :
Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:

• a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas

• the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
• Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.

Only answer really is

Pass before 97 and B+E is on licence your ok

Pass after 97 and only B on licence, GO TAKE A TEST