Update:

Right guys, we have had so much interest in the demo-car offer, that I am going to revise it to this:

Free Fitting+Mapping for the first 5 orders of the V4 ECU. We need to get the name out there, and the courtesy i recieved from PF members with just an introduction means you guys more than merritt that deal.

if you're interested, PM me and we can work out when you would like to book your car in!

Cheers,
Matt

 

That will be a Holset from a Cummins diesel. The BMW boys love them.

Chip, yes what M-tech sell is basically a Megasquirt unit.

These days a good pre built MS2 will cost you Ł300 so supplied and mapped for Ł500 is a reasonable deal.

 

Ah I think he may of mentioned Holset at somepoint (I have definately heard that name thrown about)

The V4 is no where near an MS unit... I hope not with the devlopment costs we have ploughed into it lol!

CheeRS,
Matt

 

hi Matt,

how about a cable to connect a cosworth harness to your ecu thus saving the hastle and time of installing a full harness. I know many people NEED a new harness anyway but it would make the product an attractive, quick and simple replacement to the stock ecu. better still, make your ecu's fit in a cosworth ecu box!

 

Yes we are working on adapter looms. Its a case of getting each of the different types of car in and wiring them up to a Ford plug and then going from there (into production)

Would need to do alot more research on this. I believe the cossies run Magnetti-Marrelli management, rather than Fords EEC-IV/V system?

 

yes, in fact ive made just such a loom for the V3 MS unit for my engine. apart from the reversing of the cables for the TPS i think 2wd and 4wd looms would be the same although the 2wd TPS does not work well.

the MS V3 as you will know, supports low impedance injectors using PWM and batch mode firing only in std form. does your V4 use PWM and does it offer sequential injection?

 

PGT,

Ah excellent, so was it a standard 60 Pin EEC plug?

Our V4 is smei-sequential, but our V5 (due for release next year) is fully sequential with things like in-built wideband etc. The V4 would happily run this engine though, and indeed maybe an adapter loom is on the cards?

Matt

 

its 35 pin and the number of pins can be a limitation for other stuff like launch control etc. if its PWM modulation of the low imp injectors theres shed loads of noise caused by this on the whole wiring system on MS, how did you address this?

 

The V4 has LOTS of grounds as well as aredesigned power plane, and the PWM Injector ouputs has its own ground conenctions, isolating it from the sensory and control systems. All in all, noise has been a major factor of concern with the design, and one we have worked hard to combat.

I would say the best way for the optional extras is as per our VTS PNP loom. It has another plug that alows you to connect in an 'options loom'.

Matt

 

ah very good! does it have 2 VR inputs as well?

 

Would be nice to see full technical details of it Matt (im being nosey not looking to buy as I already have an ECU I am happy with), and it would also possibly help you to shake off the "its based on a megasquirt" side of things if you really have moved it on.

Just for the record, IMHO the basic MS architecture seems good and I see no shame in building on it, there is no point re-inventing the wheel in terms of the basics.

I also prefer mapping it to some of the cheaper aftermarket ecu's like emerald or the older dta's as well.

 

PGT... Indeed it does

Its quite hard to list a full set of changes, as there is just so many, but as a breakdown...

Half the size of your standard MS V3 Board, and fully surface mounted design.

AMPSeal Automotive Connector

Both USB and RS232 connections

4x Coil Drivers as standard (8 Cyl Wated spark support, or 4 Cyl COP)

2x VR conditioners (circuit design influenced by the kind help of Richard lloyd at GEMs) so no more noise issues, and support for sequetnial COP etc.

High/Low-Z Injector support utilising PWM

In built Launch Control, Switchable Maps, Boost Control, 5x Programmable outputs, IAC Stepper motor control, 21psi MAP sensor, Knock Input

Automotive grade 2-meter loom as standard

All inouts/outputs have in-built procection (no more blowing of coil drviers due to incorrect wiring or dwell timing), and no more frying of injectors by not telling the ECU you are using Low-Zs!

ISO9000 assmbeled, RoHS compliant. Soon to be E-Marked/TUV Approved aswell.
IP69K approved sealing of enclosure (when utilising an adapter loom that uses the vehicles OBD-II port for programming, blanking off the RS232 and USB inputs)

Erm anything else just ask! I will be compiling alot more information which should be available on our website shortly.

Thanks,
Matt

 

Hi Matt,

that all sounds very good for the dosh!

 

Sounds like a good way to turn an MS into a professional product, I look forward to seeing what sort of results people get with them then mate.

I assume they support all sorts of crank sensor and cam reference sensor setups etc?

Just thinking that I have a V6 vauxhall engine coming back to me in a couple of months that I would quite like to do a pikey turbo conversion on so a cheap ECU for that would be useful, not worried about missing the free mapping as Id sooner do that myself anyway, no reflection on your abilities, its simply something I enjoy doing thats all!

It would need to be 6 cylinder wasted spark, so that sounds like it fits in perfectly well, and im not really bothered about sequential fuel injection for it anyway, i'll perhaps have a natter with you about it when I bring my nova up in a couple of months to map on the rollers.

 

PGT,

Thats excatly the plan.. time we gave the 'pricey' ECUs a run for their money!

Chip:
No problem, give us a call nearer the time and stop by if you're ever in the area.

The main idea for the V4 is for garages and tuners to be distributers rather than us directly. Any traders interested (obv after people have seen the results) feel free to get in touch, you *may* like our trade prices :P

Cheers,
Matt

 

Chip, are you aware of Microsquirt? Or the Megasquirt 3.57 board?

 

No mate, not had anyone bring one of them to me to be mapped yet, and dont have any specific interest in MS myself TBH mate.

It might be better if you started a new thread to talk about them though as obviously those are potentially competitor products to what Mtech is paying to sell on here, so not really polite to discuss them in his thread.

 

Just to clarify, the V3.57 is basially a V3 MS1 that lacks coil drivers... AND the ability to modify them properly without the use of SMT soldering equipment. We have had one MS 3.57 here which was removed from the car and swapped to a V3 due to some interesting solering the chap had done, as well as a 8V TB'd Golf that came in on a Mircosquirt that was again removed to be fitted with our V3 as we could not (well I couldn't) work out how to map it with Alpha-N... I did search everywhere, he even checked on the forums and no-one really seemed to know a work-around... Other than those two, no other personal experience. The mapping is essentially the same (MS1X/MS2) which is very good software, but I think MS died a death once they started to mass produce boards that lacked inherent features, AND, the ability to easily modify them to suit a persons particular vehicle.

That debate is probably best saved, as Chip said, for another forum

CheeRS,
Matt

 

Hi Matt,

if its 'basically a V3 MS1' does that result in problems mapping large e.g 83lb injectors for low injector pulse widths such as idle?

 

Any non sequential ECU is going to struggle to get as good HC values at idle as a fully sequential one if you are running massive injectors, particuarly if they are slow old injectors, I cant say matt's ecu being any different in that respect to any other non sequential ecu TBH mate its the injector's open and closing speeds that determine their minimum useable ontime not the ecu after all surely?

 

Oh, I was talking about the V3.57 not our V4.

Chip is right, with only 2 channels you are going to pump some fuel out of time with the cam phasing... but.. we use an algorithm called X-tau, which compensates for the fuel that is left on the port walls ect, used alot for acceleration enrichment calculations.

In general I have yet to have any problems. With timing resolutions of .001ms (thats a thousanth of a millisceond) we can get pretty good low speeds, but yes if the injector is old, choppy and slow then don't expect any magic! Staged injection is a feature of the V4, and one which in that case I would reccomend!

CheeRS,
Matt

 

Hi,

Welcome to PF. Good luck to you guys. Seem a professional lot

 

sorry Matt, i missread your post!

i thought you meant that your V4 was running with an MS1 chip which would mean injector resolution of 0.1ms IIRC.

 

Ah, that makes sense now, no the newer stuff has much better resolution!

 

no no, we;re going for the best here guys!

CossieRich, thanks for the welcome!

Matt

 

Welcome and good luck on here lads, what other work do you guys do ????. Out of interest would you map other ecus other than the ones you sell ????.

Dave.

 

Dave,

We tend to stay more in the electronics + mapping areana althouigh we have carried out nurmours engine conversions etc.

I'm happy to map Omex, but as others may of seen Emerald etc, I just CANNOT get the hang of the little target thingy, so tend to turn those away.

Although, I prefer mapping my own :P

Matt

 

Welcome and good luck

All this in my home town...

Good to see that there are some other like minded techies in this part of the world

 

lol few and far between unfortunately!

I recognise the car... Westbury leigh perhaps?

matt

 

Matt,

No I am from westbury itself but the Ford dealers in westbury leigh have a car like mine too.

You may have seen my car near your works as I am part owner of ****** and work there in my spare time.

EDIT: removed details so the moderators dont think its an illegal advert..LOL

 

Ah, yes thought I had seen it somwhere!

You'll have to pop round to the rolling road day on the 16th mate.
Matt

 

I fucking hate mapping emerald, have ranted about it many times on here.

I like updating from the spreadsheet style representation of a map.

On my autronic, if I change a value, it updates that value on the ecu when I leave the cell, on the emerald when I update, I then have to press Ctrl-P to upload the WHOLE map with that change, then after I have pressed Ctrl and P (AT THE SAME TIME!) it asks me if I want to update, I mean seriously why the fuck would i have just pressed two buttons at the same time if I didnt want to? Then I have to hit enter to confirm, then when it finishes eventually doing the update, I have to hit enter again to confirm that I know it has now updated the map.

Fucking winds me up a treat, fair enough I realise its trying to stop you accidently making changes, but it should have two modes "Im a mong and I want every action I do confirmed in triplicate" and "im actually quite bright, leave me to it" that way the mongs can still have the current interface and I can have one I can actually use without wanting to throw my laptop out the window!

 

Matt,

Will do that


Chip,

You are soooooo right...LOL

 

I think to dave walker "gooeey" is just something that a cream bun is, he hasnt heard of the GUI version pronounced the same

 

Chip,

Damn right. The first Emerald that came in... Well... The target thing is not something I could get used to. I paid top dollar for Dyno Dynamics roling road.. why? becuase it has the BEST steady state holding abilities of any chassis dyno out there... the result... that little target still llikes to walk off to the next cell when you make power changes (by altering fuel/ign) Anyway, so I thought, lets do it the old paint by numbers way. You know, tab along to the site, pgup/pgdwn or +/- or maybe even Q & W, but nope, you have to do just that, type in a diferent number, burn it, are you sure, yes, ok, 10 seconds to upload map... onto the next... we got there in the end, but it was not a pleasurable experience for me!

Although, I did call Dave about this and he said they are working on real-time mapping software for the grid system....

The Emerald is a good system, it does perform well, but the mapping is what I would call an art form, only few (dave walker, being one of them) being 'patient' enough to map them!

Anyone tried the old DOS based GEMs stuff? Its basically the same, although your target is made by different colour blocks of character cells!

Ah, almost forgot, there was an eventual work around I found in case you find yourself mapping one again...

If you are doing it on a dyno anyway..

We have our laptop setup to VNC into the dyno PC (like remote workstation thing) I have the Dyno tractive Effort and WBO2 displayed just to the right of the target thing. That way I can keep my eye on the O2 and power etc even when the target drifts to the next site, as I found when staring out the car at the dyno you are ampping a site to find that when you look back at the laptop you are on a different site altogether! This stops this from happening (note dave walkers etup of 2 PC screens? same principle!)

Matt

 

Autronic has spoilt me TBH, especially the amazingly detailed logs, thankfully though your/MS software is a lot close to autronic than it is to emerald.

Dave really needs to employ a few days work from an interface designer IMHO, preferably one with mapping experience!

 

I prefer the 3D graph mapping, although alot of people (including yourself) prefer the numbers.

Now pros I can see to the 3D graphing is you can 'see' the dynamic of the engine, the 'shape' of the fueling.

Looking at numbers surely requires more 'processing' on the mappers part, is this number extortionatly large/small compared to the next cell etc?

Also, with numbers, you cant see where you are in terms of the ECUs interpolation. With a 3D graoph I can see that I am sat in between 2 sites, and map the 'line' joining them by changing the points either side.

Is it just a personal thing or is there more to it?

 

Yes... No messing, straight to the point.

I personally hate windows and Bill gates for killing RS232 ports but then I am old...LOL

I have written many mapping software packages myself but ease of use is always No1 for me when writing any software.

 

I find a grid of numbers very easy to process personally, I have always had an affinity for numbers, so to me it feels natural to see the data "raw" like that.

I can understand why others prefer the graphs, just for me personally I prefer the grid, plus you can both view and edit easily on the grid. (well not on emerald, lol)

On autronic, you have a ghost that floats over the grid, so if you are partially in 4 cells you can see all 4 and how much influence each one is having from the amount of ghost present in each one.

I will show you on my nova when I bring it up if you havent had an autronic customer by then anyway!

 

Got any links to these good ones you have written?
All ive seen is the SECS rubbish