Dismissed with immediate effect with no contract?
04-07-2009, 06:16 PM
#1
Dismissed with immediate effect with no contract?
Hi all
Someone I know worked in a bar, and had to take time off as their mother in law passed away. The member of staff called their boss 3hrs before they were due to start work and let them know that they wouldn't be able to make work as they needed to be there for her children.
The person in question then went into work today, did their usual shift and was then taken to one side after the shift had finished and was dismissed on the spot. The employer claimed that the employee "was a good worker, but she feels she lets her boss down"
There was never any official contract drawn up between employee and employer. The employee has worked there for about 18 months.
Is what has happened above legal? Does the employer not have to give the employer a set time of notice?
Any help greatly appreciated...
Someone I know worked in a bar, and had to take time off as their mother in law passed away. The member of staff called their boss 3hrs before they were due to start work and let them know that they wouldn't be able to make work as they needed to be there for her children.
The person in question then went into work today, did their usual shift and was then taken to one side after the shift had finished and was dismissed on the spot. The employer claimed that the employee "was a good worker, but she feels she lets her boss down"
There was never any official contract drawn up between employee and employer. The employee has worked there for about 18 months.
Is what has happened above legal? Does the employer not have to give the employer a set time of notice?
Any help greatly appreciated...
04-07-2009, 06:40 PM
#3
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Quote from business link:
"The minimum legal notice period to be given by an employer is:
* one week's notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for one month or more, but for less than two years
* two weeks' notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for two years, and one additional week's notice for each further complete year of continuous employment, up to a maximum of 12 weeks."
In some instances the employer can dismiss with immediate effect and give payment in lieu of notice. As she's been working their over a year, she could claim unfair dismissal. However, any award would probably be fairly small and wouldn't justify the solicitors fees, unless she has legal cover on her house insurance?
Chris
"The minimum legal notice period to be given by an employer is:
* one week's notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for one month or more, but for less than two years
* two weeks' notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for two years, and one additional week's notice for each further complete year of continuous employment, up to a maximum of 12 weeks."
In some instances the employer can dismiss with immediate effect and give payment in lieu of notice. As she's been working their over a year, she could claim unfair dismissal. However, any award would probably be fairly small and wouldn't justify the solicitors fees, unless she has legal cover on her house insurance?
Chris
04-07-2009, 06:47 PM
#4
Quote from business link:
"The minimum legal notice period to be given by an employer is:
* one week's notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for one month or more, but for less than two years
* two weeks' notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for two years, and one additional week's notice for each further complete year of continuous employment, up to a maximum of 12 weeks."
In some instances the employer can dismiss with immediate effect and give payment in lieu of notice. As she's been working their over a year, she could claim unfair dismissal. However, any award would probably be fairly small and wouldn't justify the solicitors fees, unless she has legal cover on her house insurance?
Chris
"The minimum legal notice period to be given by an employer is:
* one week's notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for one month or more, but for less than two years
* two weeks' notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for two years, and one additional week's notice for each further complete year of continuous employment, up to a maximum of 12 weeks."
In some instances the employer can dismiss with immediate effect and give payment in lieu of notice. As she's been working their over a year, she could claim unfair dismissal. However, any award would probably be fairly small and wouldn't justify the solicitors fees, unless she has legal cover on her house insurance?
Chris
Even if she has no official contract, the above still stands?
Cheers.
04-07-2009, 06:50 PM
#5
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Yes it does - those are minimum notice periods set down in law.
Presumably she has payslips to show that she was employed? If not then I'd go back to them and mention the above, and if still no joy then mention evasion of employers NICs and invalidity of employers liability insurance....
Chris
Presumably she has payslips to show that she was employed? If not then I'd go back to them and mention the above, and if still no joy then mention evasion of employers NICs and invalidity of employers liability insurance....
Chris
04-07-2009, 06:50 PM
#7
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04-07-2009, 07:01 PM
#8
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wrong...
anyway yes this is unfair dismissal as it was not gross misconduct and there are infact serveral laws related to areas just like this that cover the employee.
theyre perfectly entitled to take that time off
i would certainly seek advise from the CAB and be going back to speak to the employer to voice her disatisfaction
anyway yes this is unfair dismissal as it was not gross misconduct and there are infact serveral laws related to areas just like this that cover the employee.
theyre perfectly entitled to take that time off
i would certainly seek advise from the CAB and be going back to speak to the employer to voice her disatisfaction
04-07-2009, 07:05 PM
#9
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a verbal contract can be made between employer and employee
stating hours times etc
i got dismissed on the spot too
ask for a written explanation as to why you were dismissed although you know
go to cab and speak to them as you have been there 18 months
in my eyes this is harsh you have good reason, employer should understand
take this all the road make sure all monies are due correct
overtime 1 weeks lye and 1 weeks money in lieu for being dismissed
hope you get on ok been through this mince myself
,
stating hours times etc
i got dismissed on the spot too
ask for a written explanation as to why you were dismissed although you know
go to cab and speak to them as you have been there 18 months
in my eyes this is harsh you have good reason, employer should understand
take this all the road make sure all monies are due correct
overtime 1 weeks lye and 1 weeks money in lieu for being dismissed
hope you get on ok been through this mince myself
,
Last edited by dazoriginal; 04-07-2009 at 07:07 PM.
04-07-2009, 07:46 PM
#11
PassionFord Post Whore!!
The fact she has been going to a work place and has been paid for her efforts regularly, constitutes a contract.
She has evidence of such a contract in the form of wage slips or P.60 for year end earnings.
.
She has evidence of such a contract in the form of wage slips or P.60 for year end earnings.
.
04-07-2009, 08:08 PM
#12
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As per the above - english law says that a contract exists when an agreement is made to provide services/products in return for 'consideration' i.e. money/other goods/service; whether it's written down or not.
Chris
Chris
05-07-2009, 01:17 AM
#13
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Gents
In employment law the absence of a contract means NOTHING
The moment you recieve your 2nd pay packet albeit weekly or monthly etc the terms and conditions of your employment are what you work its called "IMPLIED TERMS"
The basis of dismissals etc fall outside the realms of contracts anyway as they are STATUTORY LAW
The only thing that not having a contract in place could harm you is holiday pay benefits etc including the allowance for COMPASIONATE LEAVE
Nige
In employment law the absence of a contract means NOTHING
The moment you recieve your 2nd pay packet albeit weekly or monthly etc the terms and conditions of your employment are what you work its called "IMPLIED TERMS"
The basis of dismissals etc fall outside the realms of contracts anyway as they are STATUTORY LAW
The only thing that not having a contract in place could harm you is holiday pay benefits etc including the allowance for COMPASIONATE LEAVE
Nige
05-07-2009, 10:35 AM
#15
20K+ Super Poster.
ditto tony, sounds like its been used as an excuse to sack
HOWEVER, this still doesnt mean it was legal, there are processes you have to follow for this kind of thing
HOWEVER, this still doesnt mean it was legal, there are processes you have to follow for this kind of thing
05-07-2009, 11:54 AM
#17
i had a similar thing recently, laid off for minor misconduct, had a verbal warning earlier this year then pulled in the office a couple of weeks back & told my contract (that i never signed) had been terminated with immediate effect, i got 1 months pay in lieu & told to collect my personal things & leave the premises straight away.
i knew there was something wrong as a couple of weeks before the missis got taken into hospital & i had to look after the boys so couldn't go in for 2 days, i let them know both days but when i went back i got questioned about how i was letting the company know i was having time off, i told them the reason why i was off & it wasn't planned, i believe i was getting backstabbed by someone else though!
i knew there was something wrong as a couple of weeks before the missis got taken into hospital & i had to look after the boys so couldn't go in for 2 days, i let them know both days but when i went back i got questioned about how i was letting the company know i was having time off, i told them the reason why i was off & it wasn't planned, i believe i was getting backstabbed by someone else though!
05-07-2009, 02:38 PM
#18
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Its in the interests of the employer to offer some sort of compassionate leave. They are not duty bound to offer compassionate leave but if they do it doesn't have to be paid. If the employee asks to take it as holiday the employer can't refuse.
Under these circumstances compassionate leave can be in the form of a partner needing to take care of the children. All as per ACAS when i called them a few weeks ago as we had a similiar problem. Most employers out of good will allow the day of the death and the day of the funeral and can set out terms of leave ie only allowed for close family at the start of employment.
To echo others she has good grounds for unfair dismissal on what has been said. There may be more to the story or they just need to get rid of someone to save money and they saw this as an opportunity. I would make my intentions very clear to the employer, they obviously won't make any friends but at the very least she needs paying for her notice and as it wasn't down to misconduct or in breach of a contract as no formal contract has been signed so only statutory rights apply she may be entitled so some holiday pay if she hasn't used all her holiday up for this period. A well written letter setting out your intentions and detailing any advice you have sought from CAB etc to show you're serious should be enough hopefully and they may just settle what you are owed if they are reasonable.
Under these circumstances compassionate leave can be in the form of a partner needing to take care of the children. All as per ACAS when i called them a few weeks ago as we had a similiar problem. Most employers out of good will allow the day of the death and the day of the funeral and can set out terms of leave ie only allowed for close family at the start of employment.
To echo others she has good grounds for unfair dismissal on what has been said. There may be more to the story or they just need to get rid of someone to save money and they saw this as an opportunity. I would make my intentions very clear to the employer, they obviously won't make any friends but at the very least she needs paying for her notice and as it wasn't down to misconduct or in breach of a contract as no formal contract has been signed so only statutory rights apply she may be entitled so some holiday pay if she hasn't used all her holiday up for this period. A well written letter setting out your intentions and detailing any advice you have sought from CAB etc to show you're serious should be enough hopefully and they may just settle what you are owed if they are reasonable.
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